Ideas for what to tell people?

[******** 397]

I am not being a hypocrite at all. I tell anyone who asks about my WLS and even tell some people who don't ask. I am not one to chose not saying anything over saying something' date=' as surely my contributions to this discussion indicate.

Where I said I would rather say nothing was if the choice was to lie or say nothing because the truth would be harmful then I would say nothing. I do not wish to harm others unnecessarily.[/quote']

And ive read all your contributions...who are you to judge anyone else?

[LouiseC 1,031]

So they are liars and you are a hypocrit...and we can agree to disagree. AND just because you believe omission is lying doesn't mean everyone thinks that and until you get your phD in honesty' date=' I cannot side with you[/quote']

Oh dear. Here is a legal definition of lying by omission for you since it is clearly a concept you have not encountered before. I encountered it when getting my degree, well before my PhD.

"A lie of omission is a method of deception and duplicity that uses the technique of simply remaining silent when speaking the truth would significantly alter the other person's capacity to make an informed decision."

[Banned member 320]

If you read all the posts you will see myself and others referring to this as being dishonest, the deliberate omission of the surgery in responding about diet and exercise is misleading and it is the misleading that is the point of contention. The act of omission, when deliberate and calculated, is as dishonest as the act of commission. This is proven in law again and again, it is why when people take oath as witnesses they are required to tell "the whole truth" rather than just the truth.

To use an old saying, 'It is like throwing yourself on the mercy of the Court because you are an orphan, when the crime you are accused of is parenticide'.

And yet this is justified by those who lie by omission, as you can see, along with attacks on those of us who value the principle of honesty over self interest. Which is what it boils down to, those who value the principles of honesty and integrity as priority over those who define their self interest as their priority. I know who I prefer to be around in my life, my social circle, my work and my community so when asked my opinion, I will always encourage the choice of integrity over self interest.

What makes you think that we don't live by the principles of honesty and integrity? You easily judge people because they choose to do the opposite of what you would do. Have you every tried to live by the principle of "live and let live?" or "do what's right for you?". You are so quick to judge a whole person based on one single topic.

[LouiseC 1,031]

And ive read all your contributions...who are you to judge anyone else?

We all make judgements, every single day. It is how we navigate life.

I will make no apologies for making judgements about the character of a person based on their actions or inactions. It is an incredibly normal and human thing to do.

[******** 397]

I know this is going to sound gross but I am trying to think of a personal matter Louise might be able to understand . Say you went and used the bathroom (#2) but you failed to mention you used laxatives because you were constipated in your mind this is lying by emission. Or if you had a baby and failed to mention you used in vitro to conceive, you are lying by emission. Btw I dont agree with lying by emission.

[******** 397]

Oh dear. Here is a legal definition of lying by omission for you since it is clearly a concept you have not encountered before. I encountered it when getting my degree' date=' well before my PhD.

"A lie of omission is a method of deception and duplicity that uses the technique of simply remaining silent when speaking the truth would significantly alter the other person's capacity to make an informed decision."[/quote']

I'm not stupid I know what it means but I dont agree with it... and every day life is not the same as a court room. If a child says her brother bit her but the brother says he didn't bite her. And the mother deems the brother innocent that doesnt mean double jeopardy applies when bruise marks come up late

[LouiseC 1,031]

What makes you think that we don't live by the principles of honesty and integrity? You easily judge people because they choose to do the opposite of what you would do. Have you every tried to live by the principle of "live and let live?" or "do what's right for you?". You are so quick to judge a whole person based on one single topic.

You are so sensitive about this topic that I have to ask again whether you are as comfortable with your position on it as you claim to be? Your sensitivity to it and the emotion in your responses indicate otherwise.

Everyday I am in a position where I am required to make judgements on the character of others, I am also required to make decisions based on the behaviour of individuals. What I see, again and again, is that the best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour. If someone can easily and effortlessly tell lies or half truths, then I can assess that the likelihood is that they will tell lies and half truths in the future. This is simple risk assessment methodology. Not my invention by any means but tried and true in many professions where making judgements based on the behaviour of individuals is required.

So, minkywinks, once you show your self to be someone who chooses lying and deception over honesty then you show yourself as someone who does not value the principle of integrity highly.

[******** 397]

Sorry about my analogies

[LouiseC 1,031]

I know this is going to sound gross but I am trying to think of a personal matter Louise might be able to understand . Say you went and used the bathroom (#2) but you failed to mention you used laxatives because you were constipated in your mind this is lying by emission. Or if you had a baby and failed to mention you used in vitro to conceive' date=' you are lying by emission. Btw I dont agree with lying by emission.[/quote']

I would, if ever in such a bizarre situation, be honest about the laxatives and the in vitro.

[******** 397]

I would' date=' if ever in such a bizarre situation, be honest about the laxatives and the in vitro.[/quote']

So if someone who you arent that close to said "wow your pregnant, you look wonderful" you would reply with "i used in vitro"?...if that is the case you must be somewhat socially awkward to be around

[Banned member 320]

We all make judgements, every single day. It is how we navigate life.

I will make no apologies for making judgements about the character of a person based on their actions or inactions. It is an incredibly normal and human thing to do.

We also ALL make judgements everyday about what we will and wont share with others. You saying that you don't lie, is in fact a lie and I find it odd that you would deny this.

You are so sensitive about this topic that I have to ask again whether you are as comfortable with your position on it as you claim to be? Your sensitivity to it and the emotion in your responses indicate otherwise.

Everyday I am in a position where I am required to make judgements on the character of others, I am also required to make decisions based on the behaviour of individuals. What I see, again and again, is that the best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour. If someone can easily and effortlessly tell lies or half truths, then I can assess that the likelihood is that they will tell lies and half truths in the future. This is simple risk assessment methodology. Not my invention by any means but tried and true in many professions where making judgements based on the behaviour of individuals is required.

So, minkywinks, once you show your self to be someone who chooses lying and deception over honesty then you show yourself as someone who does not value the principle of integrity highly.

How am I being sensitive for asking you a question? condescending much? You can easily not reply to my questions if you want and I am by no means forcing you to take part. What emotion are you sensing from me through your computer screen? I'm really intrigued that you seem to think that I'm sensitive, a liar, dishonest, lack integrity, etc. All because of one subject. What makes you think that you know who I am based on this discussion alone? You are dishonest and lying also when you say that you don't lie. I guess we're the same

[LouiseC 1,031]

I'm not stupid I know what it means but I dont agree with it... and every day life is not the same as a court room. If a child says her brother bit her but the brother says he didn't bite her. And the mother deems the brother innocent that doesnt mean double jeopardy applies when bruise marks come up late

Whether or not you 'agree' with it is irrelevant. It is like saying you do not agree with the legally accepted definition of jaywalking. It is what it is until someone successfully and legally challenges it and creates a precedent. I can't see you being too successful in pursuit of that.

Every day in life is the same. The definition applies as does the requirement of social mores.

Let's put it into something that perhaps you can understand and relate to.

1. Your husband comes home late and you ask where he has been. He tells you he visited his mother after work. Later you find out that after he visited his mother he went to a strip bar with his friends. Do you feel he was honest with you about where he went?

2. Your teenager comes home late from a party and seems a bit drunk. You ask if she has been drinking and tells you she had two beers as you had agreed she could have two beers. The next day you find out in fact she also had 6 tequila shots. Are you happy with her?

These are examples of everyday lies of omission that occur well outside the court room and that challenge our accepted social mores.

[No game 14,437]

Here's a little gem..

So you don't lie but you have you PA do it??

I will not say who this belongs to... But...

I wasn't telling people but now find I am telling more and more. Turns out two people I work with have had the surgery. We now have a little club of our own, lol! Also, another came and told me she wanted the surgery and she was so relieved to have someone to talk to. These experiences have far outweighed the few negative responses I have received.

My PA has known from the start and has had a hell of a time with people trying to get him to spill the Beans but he knew I did not want to be the subject of gossip so I didn't publicize it widely. However if someone asks me to my face how I am losing the weight, I just tell them. No excuses. No embarrassment. Proud and happy. It is quite freeing!

[No game 14,437]

Again I won't say who this one belongs to also,

But you know who you are ( or do you? )

I see so many threads about "I don't want anybody to know". Have tou ever stopped to think about the other side of the coin? When people are secretive about things if you enquire, don't you then assume the worst case scenario? In an office environment the rumors are always so much worse than what is really going on.

My suggestion is to tell them what is going on. You don't have to go so far as to disclose everything. But give them enough to relax their curiosity or concern.

For example. Do you have diabetes? Tell them you are undergoing a procedure that will hopefully cure your diabetes.

Do you have sleep apnea, heart issues? Tell them you are getting a procedure that will cure ore minimize these conditions.

All of these would be true, and once you've had the surgery, you can go back and tell the rest of the story if you so chose.

[LouiseC 1,031]

We also ALL make judgements everyday about what we will and wont share with others. You saying that you don't lie' date=' is in fact a lie and I find it odd that you would deny this.

How am I being sensitive for asking you a question? condescending much? You can easily not reply to my questions if you want and I am by no means forcing you to take part. What emotion are you sensing from me through your computer screen? I'm really intrigued that you seem to think that I'm sensitive, a liar, dishonest, lack integrity, etc. All because of one subject. What makes you think that you know who I am based on this discussion alone? You are dishonest and lying also when you say that you don't lie. I guess we're the same [/quote']

Because you go straight to the extreme ends of response in your discourse, you are the only one to go to the name calling place. I haven't. You also do the whole "who are you" thing which is known in debating circles to be a bit of an attempt at a derail using emotion, sometimes false, to steer a conversation in a different direction rather than admit failure.

I find it hilarious that you cannot imagine an other human can exist without lying. I really do. I know plenty who chose honesty.