something apropros Oprah said once--re: "the easy way out"

TES · April 8, 2013

Momto6ix, why don't you leave it up to your husband about the bday party, including the menu and alcohol that he wants to serve? That's what I would want in his place. If I were him, I would definitely want to still have the party and I would enjoy my time with family and friends and I would make sure there were a couple of sleeve-friendly things that I could eat. You really have an enriched experience focusing very little on the food at these gatherings when you are post-VSG. It sounds like you might miss the routine with your husband of having a buddy who likes to go out to eat with you or doing food-centric things with family. I wondered about this with my husband bc we have only gone out to eat twice since I had surgery 8 weeks ago. But he has not complained at all and we have actually saved some money, too.

kimmiekay · April 9, 2013

Momto6ix,

I just had my sleeve done on March 20th and believe me if there were any other way for me to successfully lose weight - I would have never put myself through this pain. (I am alergic to the majority of pain meds so pain management is not fun for me).

There have been a few items pointed out to you in some other posts that I will repeat, that I hope may help you understand a bit better.

This is a tool, and it is a tool only as good as it is used, and if used properly helps in these ways a conventional diet does not.

1.) The stomach size is reduced by aprox 85% depending on the surgeon and the size of stomach that is left. Leaving only 2 to 6 once of space for both food and drink. So overeating in the early stages in not an option - you can't choose to ignore this diet.

2.) The hormone ghrelin is what causes up to feel hunger - this surgery removes the part of the stomach that produces this hormone so hunger is elimanted. If you are not phyiscally hungry all the time - you don't feel like you need to eat all the time. Early on after this surgery there is still some actual hunger especially when you are still on the liquid phase of the diet, this is normal.

Combining both 1 and 2 causes you not to be able to quit. Since you can only eat a few onces at a time, you are forced to make better food choices. If you make the wrong choices your body lets you know. Either you are sick to your stomach or worse, you can become protien deficiant and very ill. All of us who go through this surgery know we must eat a certain amount of Protein each day to avoid this, so we are forced to chose our foods more carefully. On a regular diet you can cheat, binge eat, or just stop if you like with no consequences other than not losing weigth. If you cheat on the surgery (and we will all be tempted or think ahhh just one bite of this won't hurt) you will pay for it in a real way.

Because you are forced to comply you will lose weight, and will be more confident as you lose the weight that you will lose more. And as you lose weight you feel better, as you feel better you are more inclinded to exercise. It is that simple. Now as far as your husband being able to walk but not use an exercise bike - it is to soon for the bike, think of the motion your legs take as you bike how they press upon your stomach, this will cause pain for many this soon out. And my doctor personally told me not to use a bike for at least 6 weeks or until I was cleared for this type of exercise. To only walk as much as I can - not to overdoe, to much exercise to soon can cause injury to the insicions and the internal incisions and cause a tear or leak which will only send you packing back to the hospital. Slow but sure is best.

As far as his "stall" this too is normal at this stage

"A "stall" a few weeks out is inevitable, and here's why.

Our bodies use glycogen for short term energy storage. Glycogen is not very soluble, but it is stored in our muscles for quick energy -- one pound of glycogen requires 4 lbs of Water to keep it soluble, and the average glycogen storage capacity is about 2 lbs. So, when you are not getting in enough food, your body turns first to stored glycogen, which is easy to break down for energy. And when you use up 2 lbs of glycogen, you also lose 8 lbs of Water that was used to store it -- voila -- the "easy" 10 lbs that most people lose in the first week of a diet.

As you stay in caloric deficit, however, your body starts to realize that this is not a short term problem. You start mobilizing fat from your adipose tissue and burning fat for energy. But your body also realizes that fat can't be used for short bursts of energy -- like, to outrun a saber tooth tiger. So, it starts converting some of the fat into glycogen, and rebuilding the glycogen stores. And as it puts back the 2 lbs of glycogen into the muscle, 8 lbs of water has to be stored with it to keep it soluble. So, even though you might still be LOSING energy content to your body, your weight will not go down or you might even GAIN for a while as you retain water to dissolve the glycogen that is being reformed and stored." from www.dcfacts.com.

Also you may not get weight loss if you do not get enough Protein (60g-80g) every day. If you do not eat at regular intervals every day or if you do not drink enough fluids (64oz) daily.

And finally it takes time for your brain to catch up to your body. Those of us who have taken this extreem route of surgery know that it was our last choice and last chance, it is not taken lightly.

Since eat is a very social event for many of us it will take each of us a different amount of time to adjust to being around large groups, resteraunts, or events. And Alcohol is not really reccomended for at least 6 months to a year after surgery and even then only in very small amounts and not on a regular basis. So there will be adjustment to make.

Personally being very close to the same time out as your husband I can identify with his feelings. For me if you are not going to save positive things to me, then say nothing. This is an extreem strugle whether you believe it or understand it or not. And most of us here know 100% that without this tool we could never lose weight and keep it off.

So it is not just one thing that makes this tool effective, it is many. And the choice to quit- has been taken away from us all, so this is why this is so much different from any diet you do by choice.

taurabird · April 9, 2013

Kimmie, Welcome to the party. I appreciate your thoughful and very well explained post. You will be an asset to this board.

Sunette · April 9, 2013

Well said and explained thank you Kimmie:)

momto6ix · April 11, 2013

hi all, been awhile since I checked in. Rick is not my husband, but only because I get alimony for another couple years and we're both willing to still get that. i know that sounds mean, or callous, but it's a joint decision on our part. the downside of that was MY insurance woulda paid for this years ago, whereas his ins doesn't. period. we used money from an IRA to pay for this. at our age tho, people always just assume we're married. lol we're used to it. in a way, i'm glad things went this way, because he mentioned last night he's way happier with this then he would have been with the lapband, something he tried for years ago. so it all worked out.

we purchased a home together and plan our retirement together, and even tho I was frustrated every time he's quit on a diet, the main thing that Kimmie posted was "the choice to quit is taken away from us" maybe that's the most important thing. his stall has slowly stopped, but he lost inches anyway, and went down to a 48 pants from a 50, without losing weight. i think that when he saw that, he was encouraged because he just seemed to come out of a funk way faster. that, combined with being un able to quit, is huge for him. I think he would have succeeded on any diet, if only he would have just stayed on the diet. now, as kimmie said, he's got no other choice. amazing.

when I've mentioned frustrations with him, those are a buildup of the past 8 yrs worth. when I met him, he was not this overweight. just a normal amount if that makes any sense. In fact, I gained weight after meeting him too, he's an excellent cook and we enjoyed that alot. we went on Atkins together on his urging and I lost the weight but he quit.

before his surgery date, he went on what he called a "world wide tour of eating" wanting to eat out every friday & saturday night. he wanted to go drinking with his buddies, go to all his favorite restaurants. I finally had to start saying no, because like I told him, YOU"RE having this surgery, not I and I can't keep eating like this.

we're bikers, and yeah, drinking kinda goes with that. that's why I mentioned the alcohol. but in his group of maybe 15 guys that bike, he's the only one who's overweight, I never understood that. he does have a desk job, and on weekends he loves to hang out in his recliner all day.

with this surgery, I have seen changes. he went back to seriously watching carbs. he's walking at work at lunchtime. we play pool alot, we had just refinished the basement. he misses the drinking. we didn't go out to eat alot anyways, that was mostly for special things. or when we were on the bike. so I'm sure I don't "miss my food buddy". He ate out every day at lunch cuz he just wasn't the type to take food to work, I live close to my job and come home for lunch. but now, he takes food. whoever mentioned they thought their husband missed her as a food buddy, but then said, he's never complained saved money etc; he probably didn't complain because he didn't think of you as a food buddy, just as I don't think of rick as one. but family gatherings are still going to happen, grandkids will get baptized, weddings will happen, these things focus on food, hey, I DIDN"T MAKE IT THAT WAY, and we will still have to do these things, and rick will have to join us. On Easier, we do the egg hunt outside for the 9 grandchildren who live nearby. that went on. it's tradition. I don't think of rick as a food buddy, but he's my partner in this world, and this world isn't going to change to accomodate this surgery.

he decided now to join his friends at work for this broadway show, and I'm happy about that. food is a part of our society, and when you choose this surgery, you still have to find a way in that society, cuz it's doesn't stop because you did this. i'm sorry if that's blunt but it's the truth. I'm glad that rick has decided to now go and enjoy the show, because that shows ME that he's willing to continue to do things, even tho he can't eat. missing a food buddy is a silly way to explain it, because the social world revolves around social gatherings and gatherings have food. when you go to a food gathering, have you ever looked around? have you ever asked yourself why, out of dozens of people, you'll see just a few who are extremely obese and most are not? somehow, people ARE making it in a world where a focus is food. are they exercising like nuts? or born that way? who knows. they are making it tho, and to expect things to now change because some have chosen surgery, well, it's just unrealistic. it isn't just fat people who go to gatherings that involve food, it's all people. but only some end up obese. it's important to both of us, that he finds his way in a world when things revolve around food. I believe he can and will.

as far as the exercise bike, the main reason I was surprised is because the dr gave him the clearance for riding the motorcycle the same time for riding the exercise bike. the harley weighs about 850 lbs, and he sits on it to move it backwards to get it out of the garage. THAT on his abdomen/stomach muscles is way different then sitting on an exercise bike.

last night he said to me, we need a new vacuum. I'm looking on ebay. I was surprised, I said , we have a vacuum? this was his reasoning: we have hardwood floors, but NOW have a finished basement that is carpeted. so I keep the vacuum downstairs now in the closet. he cuts his hair with a Flobee, if any of you have heard of that, it hooks up to a vacuum. so he wanted to buy a vacuum to keep upstairs. yes, I vetoed that. I said honey, you cut your hair once a month. go downstairs to get it, bring it up cut your hair and bring it back downstairs. think of it as burning calories. so he said yeah, ok. vacuums are way expensive, to purchase one to cut your hair once a month, because you don't want to walk downstairs to get the one we have, well, things like that are what put weight on you.

as for his birthday? it's always been a surprise. that part was important to me. knowing him as I do, that a surprise party would thrill him. he will be able to eat regular food by then, has anyone any suggestions on what types of food. I was going to cater it, I planned on going to work at my normal 530 am; then finding a place to hang until he leaves for work at 8; then going home to set this up. I've been planning it for 3 yrs, since we moved in. the only glitch is this surgery and food. trust me, I don't want to go back to presurgery, but, as I said, life goes on. when one throws a huge party, food is involved. I do think he won't really care about food so much, he'll just totally enjoy being the guest of honor. the party goes on, I know he'll love it. he'll be 9 weeks post surgery. (the date has been planned for the 3 yrs too, to throw him off).

can anyone suggest foods for this stage? perhaps recipes or things that you have learned you can enjoy. I'm not trying to make food that he can think, wow yay lotsa of food. rather i'm trying to think of what to make that will work all around. something easy for him to eat, that will be healthy for him. what do i know? usually we do burgers, dogs, wings, salads, a Pasta dish.etc. I have a good 50+ people planned, I gotta feed them. Like I said, you go to a party, food is there. but I want something that he can think, ok good, I can eat that, be healthy, now, relax and enjoy my party.

theresa

ps. tho one day I would like to know why, if hunger is eliminated, do I see posts of those couple years out who are regaining weight, have stretched out their sleeve, etc. obviously you can, and do stretch out the sleeve too, I've seen that Frisco guy's posts. many posts seem to contradict many of the points made by Kimmie

Beautyandbeyond · April 11, 2013

Momto6ix, I was personally trying to be understanding but your post is attacking ppl and their theory on what may been occurring and why. So on that note I will not be responding to any of your future posts. Regards

momto6ix · April 11, 2013

sorry you feel that way. but if you read, someone asked me if I'm missing my food buddy. really? talk about attacks.

and yes, you're right, try as i might, I don't quite understand how some may post on here that they are never hungry, some say they are starving, and the posts about those regaining weight are downright scary.

and I can't plan functions that don't have food. who can? imagine sending invitations out, we're getting married, please join us at the reception after, where we'll be playing cards? ok that's extreme, but you get the point.

i think success in any diet, depends on learning how to get on in a world where yes, you are absolutely right, food is always/often at center stage.

rick is more then a little bummed, after the broadway show, they're going to bobby flay's. he wanted to back out again, saying i don't think i'm ready for restaurants. i can't believe i'm going to miss bobby flays!

i said, it's your decision, i understand either way. I hope you go, because you will have fun. and surely there is amazing Soup there. but isn't the first time in a restaurant hard for anyone?

listen. no. my opinion isn't the same as yours. we're 2 different people, i'm someone who has been able to go on diets, and be ok with them. others need surgery. but, rick will insist that anyone who loses weight on regular diets is never successful. well no one is, including those who opt for surgery, if they do not learn how to survive in a world of food.

i'm not mean. i'm honest.

Jenhort · April 12, 2013

You know what? I had those exact same worries during my preop and directly after my sleeve...Those thoughts exactly.....every social thing EVERYTHING is centered around food! I though to myself that I would never be able to partake in anything social again! I had forgotten about those thoughts until you had brought them up! lol I have gone to many social gatherings in the last year....the first one was about 6 weeks out....I just pushed a bit of food around on my plate....but I really did connect with everyone there! I have actuallly become more social now because I feel more comfortable in those settings. My relationships with family and friends have improved because it is not about the food anymore, it is about the people. When I go to social gatherings, I eat some kind of protien...fish or some other piece of meat and then I also have tastes of things that are really good. I dont care too much for sweets anymore, I dont feel good afterwards.. As for alcohol, I used to drink a few times a week especially duriing the summer, party party party, now I dont really care to.. of course summer is coming again and I am sure I will drink more. These issues didnt become the big thing I thought they would. I just roll with it and do my best. If I want to continue to lose, I have to make the right choices. sometimes I focus on having a good week instead of a good day. Hopefully this will happen for your husband too. I hope you and he do well with this, it is hard and I know you want to support him...and I think there should be more support for family....kinda like al-anon. cuz yeah, how do you know what to say or not to say??? Good luck!

kimmiekay · April 12, 2013

when you go to a food gathering, have you ever looked around? have you ever asked yourself why, out of dozens of people, you'll see just a few who are extremely obese and most are not? somehow, people ARE making it in a world where a focus is food. are they exercising like nuts? or born that way? who knows. they are making it tho, and to expect things to now change because some have chosen surgery, well, it's just unrealistic. it isn't just fat people who go to gatherings that involve food, it's all people. but only some end up obese. it's important to both of us, that he finds his way in a world when things revolve around food. I believe he can and will.

as far as the exercise bike, the main reason I was surprised is because the dr gave him the clearance for riding the motorcycle the same time for riding the exercise bike. the harley weighs about 850 lbs, and he sits on it to move it backwards to get it out of the garage. THAT on his abdomen/stomach muscles is way different then sitting on an exercise bike.

ps. tho one day I would like to know why, if hunger is eliminated, do I see posts of those couple years out who are regaining weight, have stretched out their sleeve, etc. obviously you can, and do stretch out the sleeve too, I've seen that Frisco guy's posts. many posts seem to contradict many of the points made by Kimmie

Being quite honest myself.... I did say that the surgery is only a tool and only as good as it is used correctly. The amount you can eat does change as time goes by- but you can stuff yourself little by little and force it to stretch also. And I said it takes time for your brain to catch up with your body, you can have "head hunger" you smell food you like you think you are hungry. But also you can cause some hunger by not eating proper amounts of protien and not following your diet plan correctly. And nothing is 100% effective with 100% of the people.

You seem to be looking for examples to prove your point to him, not to find example that explain the surgery or the benefits of it. You seem to have a very distinct distain for "fat" people. Despite your inabillity to accept that obsesity is a real disease and can not be an easy fix for everyone is like saying well your diabetic so eat less sugar and it will go away, because it does for some people. Well yes it does help some people - but many many more are required to take medications thier whole life. Science doesn't know why diet alone will cure some people and not others, just like dieting alone will be effective in some cases but not all. If you took the time to do actual research on obesity you would find there are many reasons why dieting does not work for everyone. But I don't honestly believe you want to know this.

Maybe you should see someone about your obvious problem dealing with your husbands surgery, whether it be he spent IRA money on something so frivolous as trying to save his life or whether you are so scared of how your life will change you can not or will not be supportive. The problem is yours - he did take a drastic step trying to do what is best to save his life, that takes a lot of courage. If my significant other treated me with that much distain I would have to seriously examine my relationship. If you love someone you support them completely- PERIOD. Just being honest.

melodymouse · April 12, 2013

it's a serious question as I try to live with someone who had this surgery. it does seem to me that many of the things I see and read on here' date=' apply to any diet. isn't this surgery "tool" really nothing more then a diet? what is the difference? what is it that having major surgery does to your way of thinking, that just going on AND STAYING with a diet not do? I read on here that you've changed your way of thinking, the foods you eat, you give up carbs, alcohol & diet soda. you're willing to exercise. all of these things you'll do now, whereas before you wouldn't. you call no WL a stall, where as any diet calls it a plateau. what is the difference in your way of thinking, that changes because you had surgery?[/quote']
Clearly you are uneducated as how and why WLS works. When you carry excess weight for enough time for your body to create a new Set Point Weight, your metabolism changes at a cellular level. Your body physically fights you when you try to lose and keep that weight off. It produces more ghrelin, to make you more hungry and more cortisol to slow your metabolism and keep you from "wasting away". That's what causes plateaus or stalls. WLS overrides these natural body defenses TEMPORARILY. Even though you may stall after surgery your body will continue to lose until it finally figures out how to overcome the trick you've played on it. Our bodies are very smart. 1-2 years is the max. That is why it is so essential to stick to the program and get as much weight off as possible. You also need to keep it off for 6 months to a year, keeping up the healthy eating and realistic exercise program so your body will create a new set point weight at a substantially lower number. That New Normal will help you keep it off long term. Regular dieting does not accomplish this for most of us. Especially when we have to suffer the criticism of people who have never struggled with their weight OR clearly do not understand the "addiction" to food that we suffer from. The critics in my life have MOST DEFINITELY been the greatest hurdle I've had to overcome.

momto6ix · April 12, 2013

good morning all. I do so appreciate answers to questions that try and explain why things will work and why they won't. the replies that are mean or defensive, I try and ignore. my questions are blunt and honest. maybe this upsets some of you, but they are legit questions.

I look at weight like this. I know people who are really thin, and they eat all kinds of junk food. I'll bet everyone knows of some like this, and everyone is jealous of that person. but. some people also have really long legs, super blonde hair, they are pretty. I'm not them. I'm not the person who can eat with abandon either., I LIVE WITH RICK. and I love how you are all defending him. but, while I don't live with any of you, I can honestly say I have seen rick diet, and be successful. then he quits. so when he tells me, I can't lose weight on a diet, you betcha I have trouble with that, because he can. what he can't do is lose more then 5 lbs a week if that on a diet. what he doesn't want to do is accept that he is a person without that super fast matabolism, that he can not eat like he wants to. my hair looks awful if I let it air dry. so I spend time with it each morning to style it. my house gets dirty if I don't dust it. my body gets fat if I don't watch what I put in it.

I do NOT understand how you can say I got surgery to save my life; isn't fear of early death enough of a deterrent to eating 3,4,5 slices of pizza? apparently not. we have life ins. we have wills. we do not expect to die tomorrow, but we are prepared for it. we wear seatbelts in cars, even tho we've never been involved in a bad accident.

why is dieting so hard? maybe because we have to accept that it's not a diet, but a life altering decision to not overeat.

my original question stands. what has changed in your way of thinking, that now you can succeed? Rick told me he would NOT feel hunger. but now he is surprised that he is hungry. I've seen posts on here that say, I got this to give me a jump start and I'm never going back. I've also seen posts that say, I'm gaining weight.

I also saw a post from a woman who was MAD at her co workers cuz they constantly bring in food for the lunch room and she had the surgery don't they get it??? maybe they bring in food they know better to leave home so they don't eat it? but hesitate to throw it out? maybe they feel, here's 10 cupcakes, people will only take one........ and yes, I do feel, rick has to learn how to find his way again in the world of food. rick is totally upset that he is going to bobby flay's restaurant tonight and can't eat. he hasn't mentioned the joy of seeing the broadway show, or even just looking forward to hanging out with coworkers out of a work setting, just that he can't eat. and you wonder why I worry and ask questions that make you think?

someone said they now enjoy parties more cuz the focus isn't on food. that's positive! maybe for him, he looked forward to parties just to eat. I would have never thought that until I read it here.

as I said. I live with rick. I've seen him go on a diet and be very successful. but then, he'd just cheat. I don't know why. as with any diet out there, heck, you lose 30 lbs and you think, wow this is great!!! so why cheat?

I'm sorry I'm stirring your pot on here. surely you understand that it is somewhat of a one sided site, meant for those who have had the surgery. there's nothing for the families.

Protein. I need a good Protein for his party because he should eat that first. anyone wanna suggest good recipes they've discovered?

(it's ok if you yell at me, insult me, heck you can even blame me for all overweight people in the world ifn' ya want, I'm female, italian and scorpio, do you really think you can make me cry? smile)

instead I'd rather learn some positive recipes so I can incorporate them into our lives.

I have read on here that people cheated and ate food they shouldn't have before they were cleared to. haven't read many of people who exercised before they were supposed to. rick was raking last week, and I'm not sure he shoulda have done that. that kinda stuff worries me. anyone have input on that?

theresa

momto6ix · April 12, 2013