Stop having so many damn kids; population control, anyone?

[Wheetsin 714]

Ask God to work faith in you, or you will remain forever without faith, no matter what you wish, say or can do.

Being anything other than a christian is very hard in our society, and lacking it brings conflict and scorn to your life that you wouldn't otherwise have because, let's face it, christians can be really mean and judgmental people. I believe I was 12 the first time I was told I would burn in hell. A statement that doesn't have any more fearing consequences than "you will fly to Neverland", but that still carries very strong messages of judgment, self righteousness, disdain - perhaps even digust - and instantaneous discrediting of that person's beliefs.

Because of this, and many other reasons, many younger people who don't necessarily believe yet pray for a clear sign, pray for faith, pray to feel the holy ghost because they want nothing more than to believe in God. Believing in god means acceptance, and being "right", and fitting in, not being the outsider -- and most of our younger people covet those things above all others.

So it seems more like - "Ask God to work faith in you, or you will remain forever without faith, no matter what you wish, say or can do. Ask God to work faith in you, and even then you may remain without faith."

**edited, where I have amde generalizations, in was in reference to the groups of people I'm recalling at that time, and not intended to be representative of entire populations.

[skyeblu79 0]

Being anything other than a christian is very hard in our society, and lacking it brings conflict and scorn to your life that you wouldn't otherwise have because, let's face it, christians can be really mean and judgmental people. I believe I was 12 the first time I was told I would burn in hell. A statement that doesn't have any more fearing consequences than "you will fly to Neverland", but that still carries very strong messages of judgment, self righteousness, disdain - perhaps even digust - and instantaneous discrediting of that person's beliefs.

Because of this, and many other reasons, many younger people who don't necessarily believe yet pray for a clear sign, pray for faith, pray to feel the holy ghost because they want nothing more than to believe in God. Believing in god means acceptance, and being "right", and fitting in, not being the outsider -- and most of our younger people covet those things above all others.

So it seems more like - "Ask God to work faith in you, or you will remain forever without faith, no matter what you wish, say or can do. Ask God to work faith in you, and even then you may remain without faith."

**edited, where I have amde generalizations, in was in reference to the groups of people I'm recalling at that time, and not intended to be representative of entire populations.

There can be mean and judgemental people of all faiths and backgrounds.

I could call out a lot of people from my past that have caused me problems maybe of which still bother me to today. Probably caused my SAD...Lets see whites, latinos, blacks, Italians, skinny people, fat people, old people, young people, gay, straight, short, tall, curly hair, straight hair....

I'm not that young anymore, but especially when I was in high school and college...Religion came up very little. I knew my bestfriend for years before I even knew what religion she was. I can still remember the most popular guy and girl in school, but I don't remember what religion they were. Back then and even in colllege it was about being accepted mainly by your peers. You didn't care if your parents didn't like you. Religion came up very little.

[Carlene 12]

Being anything other than a christian is very hard in our society, and lacking it brings conflict and scorn to your life that you wouldn't otherwise have because, let's face it, christians can be really mean and judgmental people. I believe I was 12 the first time I was told I would burn in hell.

You are definitely right about Christians being "mean and judgmental" sometimes. My daughter was about 12 when the neighbors told her that her whole family was going to hell - because we were Catholic, and they were some weird fundamentalist, non-denominational group that spun off from a less conservative church that had, in turn, spun off from a mainstream Baptist church that was "too liberal". We (Catholics) were going to hell, they explained, because we worship statues. My daughter came home very confused. "Mom," she said, "What are they talking about? We don't even HAVE any statues at St. Michael's." I told her that if I had a dollar for every time I had heard that old chestnut, I could buy those people for what they were worth, then sell them for what they THOUGHT they were worth, and we'd be the richest family in town!

[GeezerSue 7]

There can be mean and judgemental people of all faiths and backgrounds.

I could call out a lot of people from my past that have caused me problems maybe of which still bother me to today. Probably caused my SAD...Lets see whites, latinos, blacks, Italians, skinny people, fat people, old people, young people, gay, straight, short, tall, curly hair, straight hair....

I'm not that young anymore, but especially when I was in high school and college...Religion came up very little. I knew my bestfriend for years before I even knew what religion she was. I can still remember the most popular guy and girl in school, but I don't remember what religion they were. Back then and even in colllege it was about being accepted mainly by your peers. You didn't care if your parents didn't like you. Religion came up very little.

I'm not the spokesperson for Italian-Americans here, but I didn't have to profess to believe in any creed or course of behavior to be an Italian-American. I just AM. I think the point was that people who profess to be following a loving and merciful God can exemplify the opposite of love and mercy while expounding on the glory of iiving a life influenced by the loving and merciful God.

And I got tuned in to religious differences early on because our parents were told by our church to limit our interactions to playing only with other Catholic children AND my entire "Blue Bird Group" was told to go to confession because we had sinned by attending a Christmas Service--with other Blue Bird Groups--at a local Methodist Church.

Yup...I must have been seven or eight at the time. BIG sinner.

[skyeblu79 0]

I'm not the spokesperson for Italian-Americans here, but I didn't have to profess to believe in any creed or course of behavior to be an Italian-American. I just AM. I think the point was that people who profess to be following a loving and merciful God can exemplify the opposite of love and mercy while expounding on the glory of iiving a life influenced by the loving and merciful God.

And I got tuned in to religious differences early on because our parents were told by our church to limit our interactions to playing only with other Catholic children AND my entire "Blue Bird Group" was told to go to confession because we had sinned by attending a Christmas Service--with other Blue Bird Groups--at a local Methodist Church.

Yup...I must have been seven or eight at the time. BIG sinner.

That is awful to do that too kids. I bet a lot of parents actually did that. Is an extreme situation, the norm? What did they think would happen if yal associated w/non-Catholic children.?

[Wheetsin 714]

There can be mean and judgemental people of all faiths and backgrounds.

Yes, and I knew someone somewhere would interpret my message to be about christians in general. Hence my footnote. But when I'm talking about my experiences with christians, I'm not going to note every other possible demographic that has been or could be mean in reocrded or future time. I think sometimes it's ok to talk about the group you're referring to or thinking of, and trust other people can infer that you mean your comment "on target".

If we're talking about how Indian food is good, and I say "Indian food is spicy", I'm not really inclined to qualify that by saying "Indian food is spicy, and so is American Mexican, and so is some Thai, and so is some Argentinian, and so is some Tex Mex." That doesn't mean I'm trying to imply that only Indian food could be spicy.

But at the same time, my dinners were not shared with Indians who claimed to have the mildest cuisine, either.

[Wheetsin 714]

We (Catholics) were going to hell, they explained, because we worship statues.

I always thought that was just the Hispanic catholics!

A Hispanic friend of mine once told me there are three truths to every Hispanic household:

1. There is a statue of Mary somewhere in or around their house

2. There is an oversized crucifix in or around their house

3. At least one room in the house is or has been haunted

Disclaimer: no that doesn't mean I believe these things are true or that he really believed these things are true, blah blah blah, etc. etc.

[Carlene 12]

I always thought that was just the Hispanic catholics!

A Hispanic friend of mine once told me there are three truths to every Hispanic household:

1. There is a statue of Mary somewhere in or around their house

2. There is an oversized crucifix in or around their house

3. At least one room in the house is or has been haunted

And your friend was right. But they don't worship the statues, or the Blessed Virgin.

[Wheetsin 714]

I'm not that young anymore, but especially when I was in high school and college...Religion came up very little.

Then you are very, very lucky and should enjoy that luck every day. I believe fifth grade was the first time I received "detention" because I did not say "under god" when required to recite the pledge. Of course it only went downhill from there. Religion doesn't have to come up as a formal topic in order for people to know there are differences.

And let's make sure my statement was read accurately, and not under a bias or misperception.

Believing in god means acceptance, and being "right", and fitting in, not being the outsider -- and most of our younger people covet those things above all others.

My statement was that being "right", fitting in, and not being the outsider are things that yound people covet. And that believing in god is one of the ways this happens. When you're the only kid on the block who isn't going to VBS, it's that much harder to gain acceptance. When you're being punished and reprimanded for not reciting "under god" in class, it's that much harder to gain acceptance. When, right before christmas break, the teacher has you write al ist of things you're going to pray for, and all you can write is "I don't pray" - it's that much harder to gain acceptance. Because all of this makes you that much more different from your peers. This applies to all facets of life, one of which - for the vast majority of Americans - is their faith.

[Carlene 12]

That is awful to do that too kids. I bet a lot of parents actually did that. Is an extreme situation, the norm? What did they think would happen if yal associated w/non-Catholic children.?

It was the norm 40 or 50 years ago. The Church is a lot less fanatical now. What did they think would happen if we associated with non-Catholic children? Well, aside from not wanting us teased, harassed, and damned to hell for stuff that we weren't doing anyway (worshiping statues, or the Virgin Mary, etc) they thought we might be influenced to actually explore other doctrines. My mom did not buy into this, by the way. I went to lots of different churches with my friends when I was a kid. It was a real eye-opener. No music at the Church of Christ, but my C of C friend couldn't explain why. At another church, we had to wear dresses to a cookout in July - no jeans and definitely no shorts. I even went to a Baptist church's vacation Bible school one summer.

When my kids were growing up in the '80s, they had friends who weren't allowed to go to church with us. My daughter had one friend whose parents were so adamant, it made her desperate to see what all the fuss was about. Of course, my child told her, "You aren't missing anything. It's boring."

[skyeblu79 0]

I'm not the spokesperson for Italian-Americans here, but I didn't have to profess to believe in any creed or course of behavior to be an Italian-American. I just AM. I think the point was that people who profess to be following a loving and merciful God can exemplify the opposite of love and mercy while expounding on the glory of iiving a life influenced by the loving and merciful God.

And I got tuned in to religious differences early on because our parents were told by our church to limit our interactions to playing only with other Catholic children AND my entire "Blue Bird Group" was told to go to confession because we had sinned by attending a Christmas Service--with other Blue Bird Groups--at a local Methodist Church.

Yup...I must have been seven or eight at the time. BIG sinner.

Okay, that's called being a liar or hyprocrite. I still don't see the point. Some people are just crazy plain and simple. As we all know there are a lot of crazy people in the world and yes, sometimes to do call themselves religious. It's not shocking or strange to me.

[skyeblu79 0]

Yes, and I knew someone somewhere would interpret my message to be about christians in general. Hence my footnote. But when I'm talking about my experiences with christians, I'm not going to note every other possible demographic that has been or could be mean in reocrded or future time. I think sometimes it's ok to talk about the group you're referring to or thinking of, and trust other people can infer that you mean your comment "on target".

If we're talking about how Indian food is good, and I say "Indian food is spicy", I'm not really inclined to qualify that by saying "Indian food is spicy, and so is American Mexican, and so is some Thai, and so is some Argentinian, and so is some Tex Mex." That doesn't mean I'm trying to imply that only Indian food could be spicy.

But at the same time, my dinners were not shared with Indians who claimed to have the mildest cuisine, either.

Point taken, but unless I have tried all Indian. I wouldn't say it was spicy. In fact all Indian isn't spicy. Some of it has no spice in it all all. It would be like I was stereotyping all Indian food.

[skyeblu79 0]

Then you are very, very lucky and should enjoy that luck every day. I believe fifth grade was the first time I received "detention" because I did not say "under god" when required to recite the pledge. Of course it only went downhill from there. Religion doesn't have to come up as a formal topic in order for people to know there are differences.

And let's make sure my statement was read accurately, and not under a bias or misperception.

My statement was that being "right", fitting in, and not being the outsider are things that yound people covet. And that believing in god is one of the ways this happens. When you're the only kid on the block who isn't going to VBS, it's that much harder to gain acceptance. When you're being punished and reprimanded for not reciting "under god" in class, it's that much harder to gain acceptance. When, right before christmas break, the teacher has you write al ist of things you're going to pray for, and all you can write is "I don't pray" - it's that much harder to gain acceptance. Because all of this makes you that much more different from your peers. This applies to all facets of life, one of which - for the vast majority of Americans - is their faith.

Wow, times have really changed a lot. I was in elementary school (NC) until 1990 and there were kids that didn't say the pledge of allegance @ all...We said it everyday and I never even thought about it until you said it now. It was never an issue w/the teacher of kids.

Oh, did you go to a religious school or this was a normal school where you are from?

[Wheetsin 714]

RIght, and that's where context comes in. I was talking specifically about negative experiences, so I'm going to be relating my comments to negative experiences.

My parents are christians. I think they're fantastic people.

[Wheetsin 714]

Oh, did you go to a religious school or this was a normal school where you are from?

Normal school.