Stop having so many damn kids; population control, anyone?

[Carlene 12]

I have stood in line with my weeks worth of ground beef while the local heroin dealer has pushed his TWO baskets of groceries up behind me with T-Bone steaks in it.

I'm amazed that you can identify the drug dealers in your neighborhood on sight. If they are that easy to recognize, I would think the police would have hauled them in by now.

[Carlene 12]

Is it logical, is it just, is it ethical - I'm not trying to judge the actions. I'm just saying that there is more than a small population of people who value their ability to reproduce because babies mean money.

I'm sure there are some who think lots of children equates to benefit $$$. But not all poor people are on welfare, by far. There is a larger group known as the "working poor". They are industrious, honest people who generally have few marketable skills, or work at seasonal jobs with no benefits. They have large families because children represent the only kind of wealth they are ever likely to have.

[Wheetsin 714]

Ok, so after all these pages and pages of post, has anyone changed their position???

I'd gues that for about 95% of the people posting to this thread, or more, the point/intention was never to try and change someone's position. If that's why you post your opinion, you will see little success.

[Wheetsin 714]

I'm sure there are some who think lots of children equates to benefit $$$. But not all poor people are on welfare, by far. There is a larger group known as the "working poor". They are industrious, honest people who generally have few marketable skills, or work at seasonal jobs with no benefits. They have large families because children represent the only kind of wealth they are ever likely to have.

I don't disagree at all, and never once did I make the claim that all poor are on welfare. Those people would fall into what I described as "it being the only thing they can't take away" - the core ability or right, if you would, and the associated gains (gains being not monetary, but emotional, spiritual, what have you).

[Wheetsin 714]

The system is very definitely broken, but not enough people speak up when they see abuse and those who benefit learn all the tricks and tips of how to get more and brag about it and teach it to their friends and family all of the time. Amazing..

What I hear most frequently is, "I know they're lying to me, but there's not a damn thing I can do about it."

That said, I also hear, "We know they're taking advantage of a broken system, but for us - the one person we help that really and truly needs us is worth the 6 or 7 who don't."

I rpobably deviate from them there, but that's another thread. :grouphug:

[Big girl banded 0]

I very much agree with this statement.

I have been witness to SOOOO many who are definitely able-bodied taking advantage of the system and continuing to have children even though they proclaim themselves unable to work, etc. I have also witnessed addicts who abuse this system and yes, have more children in order to secure their position in this environment. I think it fully, totally sucks! I also think it completely sucks that we pay people to monitor this activity and very little is done about it, even though any average citizen can give names and addresses of those they know who do it and have done it for years.

I've seen women who say they're single. Their baby has NO father, so they need assistance, however, HE is laying up on the couch eating the groceries she gets from her monthly food stamps. That is, IF they're not selling them to the local crack/heroin/you name it dealer in exchange for their drug of choice.

Do I believe all people who get assistance are low down useless rats? Nope. I believe there are very many who do need 'assistance'. also believe they should place a limit on how many children they (the system) can support for a limited amount of time. They need to re-train these people and perhaps subsidise them, but the free-ride needs to stop. As it is, those people are smarter than us working stiffs. They know how to work the system and they do it. Me, I have to use my money to pay my bills AND my groceries AND my healthcare. They just pay their utilities and their new car payment. WE pay all the rest.

The system is very definitely broken, but not enough people speak up when they see abuse and those who benefit learn all the tricks and tips of how to get more and brag about it and teach it to their friends and family all of the time. Amazing..

I have worked in the Projects with people on benefits for years. I cant agree with you more. It becomes a game on how to get a check, and an emergency check and how to get your kids getting checks. It is gross abuse of the system... getting a check becomes their full time jobs.

The only reason tax payers dont go ballistic is bc they are too scared to stick around in the projects to find out where their money is really going, it is easier to turn a blind eye.

[dotofoz 0]

WOW this thread's posts actually surpassed the one about Bush being the worst president ever!

[dotofoz 0]

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like a MAJORITY, (not all) folks posting that worked/know folks that worked in social services see families that seem to see the welfare system as a game of how to get the most $ from Uncle Sam, some by having a boat load of kids and teaching them the game.....VERY interresting! I wonder if one part of the country has more ethical people needing services than anthother? My question has yet to be addressed:....How will all the anti choice folks make a positive contribution (ie, each adopt, care for support, put thru college, etc) to all the unwanted children born if there was no choice?

[missy4gordon 0]

The law knows who they are as well, but choose to turn their backs. This is nothing new. Most law enforcement officials know who the dealers are. Sometimes, under pressure, they attack the problem. Sometimes, they don't. You'd be surprised how small rural towns are infested and the law does nothing until there is enough people with money who raise a ruckus because one of their own has become involved. Sad.. but true.

I know this is true, I live it in my job everyday. I have warrants upon warrants sitting out there that the sheriff's office just don't serve. I see these people all the time around town, so they can't tell me they don't. They tell me they can't find them, bologna.

On a side note, our sheriff was up for re-election this year, he didn't even make it out of the primary. He ran as a write in but of course didn't win.

[missy4gordon 0]

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like a MAJORITY, (not all) folks posting that worked/know folks that worked in social services see families that seem to see the welfare system as a game of how to get the most $ from Uncle Sam, some by having a boat load of kids and teaching them the game.....VERY interresting! I wonder if one part of the country has more ethical people needing services than anthother? My question has yet to be addressed:....How will all the anti choice folks make a positive contribution (ie, each adopt, care for support, put thru college, etc) to all the unwanted children born if there was no choice?

I would SERIOUSLY love to adopt a kid, I was told it takes thousands of dollars and years. I know a couple who was in the process of adopting their 2nd child, they had the little boy, had a baby shower, everything. At the last minute, the biological mother backed out. HEARTBREAKING. I would be terrified to go through something like that, have the sweet child ripped from you after all that time.:welldone2:

[Big girl banded 0]

I'm amazed that you can identify the drug dealers in your neighborhood on sight. If they are that easy to recognize, I would think the police would have hauled them in by now.

Actually Carlene they are very easy to sight. THe police know that too. Catching them is very different. Police have to SEE the exchange of $ and drug and then they can arrest. HOWEVER, most dealers will not keep their stash on them they have it hidden near by. It is a waste of police time to get one bag off a dealer... when he has much more hidden near by. A small amount is only going to produce suspended time, maybe just a fine in court... nothing major.

One of the guys i worked with dealt for years. He was found with 6 bags of crack. He went to court. He got 10 yrs. 9 and 1/2 of those were suspended. In jail he had 6 months to "pull" you only have to do 85% if you are good and get "good time" he was out in 5 months Dealing again.

This is a bigger issue within the courts and how much the tax payers want to pay to REALLY get crime off the street..

But that is a totally different thread.

[Big girl banded 0]

re: adoption

As a former adoption case worker, I was absolutely astonished at how many children 'available' were somehow left like unchosen puppies, sitting in fostercare, while those groups proclaiming 'adoption NOT abortion' could do nothing to place a HUGE number of these 'rejects'....

HOW TRUE JACK! I worked in CHild Protective Services so we worked closley with Adoption. and foster care.

Funny how no one wants the crack and heroin addicted babies that are out there needing a home.

I would love for a church to adopt all of them in efforts to curb this problem. If the church adopted and farmed out those kids to Christians in thier parish EVERYTIME.. then i would become pro-life.

That would teach them!

[dotofoz 0]

I would SERIOUSLY love to adopt a kid, I was told it takes thousands of dollars and years. I know a couple who was in the process of adopting their 2nd child, they had the little boy, had a baby shower, everything. At the last minute, the biological mother backed out. HEARTBREAKING. I would be terrified to go through something like that, have the sweet child ripped from you after all that time.:welldone2:

Well, I hope the biological mother can give that baby as good a life as it could have had w/the adoptive parents (probably not). I'm sorry but the popular cases I've seen on TV about that makes me sick! Especially after the child has been living w/the adoptive family for years, then mom decides she wants them back....

[anonemouse 1]

And what kind of person makes the decision to abort, then rocks/comforts the dead/dying child....the same one they've just participated in killing? Am I the only one who finds this VERY creepy?

The same kind of person who takes their young child off life support and then comforts them while they are dying. The women who are having abortions just because they don't want to be pregnant are not likely to use a so-called "comfort room." I would imagine that the people using it are the ones who had massively deformed, damaged, or already dead fetuses aborted. To me, that is no different than removing a loved one from life support. Would you deny a woman comfort who had just taken her 6 year-old off life support? Probably not. I see no difference in giving her comfort and giving comfort to the woman who had an abortion to remove a fetus that would have died anyway.

[Carlene 12]

I knew who they were because in earlier days, they were some of my best friends. The law knows who they are as well, but choose to turn their backs. This is nothing new. Most law enforcement officials know who the dealers are. Sometimes, under pressure, they attack the problem. Sometimes, they don't. You'd be surprised how small rural towns are infested and the law does nothing until there is enough people with money who raise a ruckus because one of their own has become involved. Sad.. but true.

I didn't know anyone still used those paper stamp systems. In Texas, you get a debit card. It has your name on it, plus you have to show ID.

Your state could probably save a lot of money if it invested in the latest technology.