Stop having so many damn kids; population control, anyone?

[Carlene 12]

So the reason, the motivation for deciding to abort, has no bearing on this for you?

For me personally? No...I would not have an abortion - period.

As for other people, I would not help someone obtain an abortion. I would not loan them money, take them to the clinic, etc. Neither would I attempt to block their way in, carry signs in protest, hand out anti-abortion literature, etc. I think that for many people, it isn't an easy decision. But I can't possibly know the depth of their feelings, nor can I measure the purity of their motives.

I would be much more comfortable with pro-choice legislation that did not permit abortion on demand. I think there needs to be some degree of responsibility involved. And I think that partial birth and "salting out" abortions are absolutely barbaric and anyone doctor who performs them is absolutely committing child abuse of the worst imaginable sort.

[Wheetsin 714]

I'm sure there are people out there who have had abortions and believed they had no other choice, or who had the abortion only to regret it afterwards. No harm in giving them a place to seek consolation. I think some of the measures are a bit unusual (e.g. the picture), but people grieve and work through their emotions in different ways, and what works for me won't work for the next guy.

Honestly - I don't think that's any more weird than open caskets at funerals. Or taking pictures of people in their caskets. Yeah, probably different reasons behind the death, but to me - you're still standing around looking at a corpse. Or taking pictures of it. Both of which I've seen numerous times. Disgusting to me, but an awful lot of people do it so it must help them. Likewise, the room may seem disgusting or an abborhation to you, but it has probably helped someone at some point, and it isn't hurting anyone.

[Carlene 12]

I was thinking more along the lines of following proper procedure for disposal of medical waste, whatever that is. Since any facility performing abortions has to deal with the complication of live births (failed abortions), a reputable one would have actual procedures to handle it that don't involve the laundry room.

The "laundry room" was just a place to put them until they died. You can't dispose of a living, breathing body once it's born - even a fetus. They call that murder.

[gadgetlady 4]

Wow! I woke up to a thread that took off. I might go back and respond to some individual posts, but here are just a few random thoughts.

I am 100% pro-life, in case you hadn't already guessed.

There is a disagreement over what to call the human being developing in the womb. I choose to call it an unborn baby. Others choose to use a Latin word instead to obfuscate the issue.

I believe in birth control. I use it.

I am a Christian, but I don't oppose abortion for religious reasons. I oppose it for scientific reasons. If aborting an 8-month pregnant woman offends you, ask yourself why. And then count back from birth and tell me when the baby ceases to be a baby and becomes a blob of tissue.

Unplanned pregnancies do not equate to child abuse. Unplanned pregnancies often lead to changed lives. To be sure, many planned pregnancies result in child abuse. The ultimate form of child abuse is ripping that child from the safety of the mother's womb and dismembering him or her.

Women who have had miscarriages are perfectly within their rights to mourn, as are women who have had abortions. Losing a baby hurts. Many women have abortions against their will and many know it's wrong when they do it. They are simply in a crisis situation and they are latching on to whatever they believe will help them escape. Many women change their minds many times in the process of deciding whether to have an abortion. Unfortunately, many of them change it again right after the procedure is over.

It is a harsh reality that aborted babies are born alive. It's not something the pro-life movement made up. If you're pro-abortion and it upsets you, you might want to figure out why.

The baby is not a woman's body. If it were, a pregnant woman would have the unusual medical situation of having 4 arms, 4 legs, 2 hearts, 2 brains, 2 circulatory systems, and, in the case of a male child, male genitalia.

I believe the only case where abortion is warranted is when the physical life of the mother is in danger from complications if the pregnancy were carried to full term. In that case, it is killing one to save another.

I believe the best thing for perpetrators of incest is abortion. If these disgusting people had to face up to their crimes rather than being able to hide behind them by sending their daughters, nieces, etc. to an abortion clinic time after time, they might actually be caught and jailed. As it stands, when the child is never seen pregnant, the incest just continues.

Most people are blisfully unaware of the development that occurs in the womb. Show a picture of a developing baby, in utero or aborted, to a child. And they know that interefering with the continuing life of that child is murder, just as interfering with their continuing life would be murder. Pro-abortion adults, however, are either blinded or refuse to look.

I'm sure I'll have more to say and I might actually have time to go back and respond to some individual posts, but not right now.

[gadgetlady 4]

I was thinking more along the lines of following proper procedure for disposal of medical waste, whatever that is. Since any facility performing abortions has to deal with the complication of live births (failed abortions), a reputable one would have actual procedures to handle it that don't involve the laundry room.

What would you suggest? Assisting the child in living, or killing it? If the latter, how?

[Carlene 12]

Honestly - I don't think that's any more weird than open caskets at funerals. Or taking pictures of people in their caskets.

My church doesn't open the casket during the funeral, so that's a little off-putting for me, too. About the picture thing...

My first husband's family was big on taking casket photos. And I've always had an interest in photography and have owned really good camera equipment, taken college level classes in photography, etc. So they used to call me when there was a funeral scheduled and ask me to bring my camera. I made my husband NUTS! He HATED it! And he made me promise that I wouldn't let anyone take pictures of him after he died.

Sadly, he was killed in an accident at 28 years old. His grandmother and I had a huge fight at the funeral home over whether or not anyone was going to take pictures of him. I said absolutely not. It was hard for them to accept this, since I had photographed so many corpses for them myself. It wouldn't have mattered to me, but a promise is a promise.

[Carlene 12]

Oh, I know you were being sarcastic about that. I meant your comment about there being so many kids here that people have to go and adopt kids in other countries.

I said that there is a SHORTAGE of babies to adopt here, so people go overseas to adopt. That's true. I have a friend who fosters all kinds of babies and young children - drug babies and multi-racial babies and special needs children. They have all been adopted. It's the older kids - the ones who are made available for adoption later - who have a hard time being adopted. Babies are a commodity in very short supply.

[missy4gordon 0]

I don't believe in abortion for myself, but I can't force my beliefs on someone else. I also can't carry the fetus, take care of it when it's born financially or other wise. I can behind prevention, but I try to use some common sense and be real.

ok, maybe if people really used common sense and RESPONSIBILTY, this would be a NON-ISSUE!!! Guess what, BIRTH CONTROL people!! Take the pill AND use a condom, a diaphram, the sponge, IUD, or it's simple, STAY OUT OF THE SACK!! Murder is NOT an acceptable birth control method simply because two people were careless. PERIOD, the end.

I don't personally know any fetuses that were aborted, but I do see on the news everyday that children that are abused and murdered. I also have a friend that spent her life since age 3 being shuttled from foster home to foster home. I also personally know crack babies.

I have a cousin who sends her 11 month old baby from home to home b/c she didn't want her in the first place. I see the way she refers to her and treats her, but want let anyone adopt her. She was all up for adoption until the baby was born. She is 21, never wanted any children and only cares about finishing her college degree, b/c that comes 1st.

I have shed many tears and I am not a heartless person. I just don't like seeing people treating kids wrong period. If 1/2 the people out here against abortion would adopt a kid, that would help. There aren't many people out here adopting the crack babies, abused kids, or minority kids. People are a lot of talk plain and simple.

And I have seen kids who lived with varying forms of abuse, become adults with "normal" lives, successful lives. In fact, I am married to one. So please spare me the "they're better off" routine 'cuz I ain't buyin'.

I would LOVE, repeat LOVE to adopt a kid, but I can't afford it.....

[Sunta 5]

I think having open caskets and taking pictures of people in them are both super weird and gross. But hey, whatever floats your boat I guess.

I never understood why corpses are not taboo in our society. To me, a dead body is horrifying and scary and I don't want to be anywhere near it. It's revolting. It's like the most private thing that can happen to someone and the way we parade people around, sometimes with open or glass caskets, is just so gross to me.

That being said, whatever helps someone deal with their grief is fine by me. I just don't like being forced to particpate in it. At my Grandfather's funeral, my aunt kept pushing me to go up and look in the casket and I was like "EW!" and sat in the back of the church.

Ugh, and the worst is when someone goes by drowning and they have an open casket. This happened to my best friend and to this day I deeply regret having gone up there, as my last vision of her now remains one where her mottled blue and green skin is sagging off the bones of her face. GROSS!

I'm sure she would be FURIOUS at her parents for letting people see her in such an unglamorous way, having been very beautiful and stunning in life and proud of it, too.

Dead bodies in my opinion should be something private and taboo, and seeing them should be reserved for medical staff. But like I said, it's important for many people and I completely respect that.

[Alexandra 55]

What would you suggest? Assisting the child in living, or killing it? If the latter, how?

To my mind, it's analogous to removing a patient from life-support machines. If it's unable to maintain life on its own for any length of time, it will die in very short order if left alone. Society should not be in the position of picking up the cost of assisting unwanted, undeveloped babies to "live" in these situations.

But the way to prevent these things from happening is to allow MORE access to abortion, not less. It's the people who wait too long, who don't tell anyone about their pregnancies, who are scared to pick up the phone and DO SOMETHING about their pregnancy until it's too late that create these situations.

[missy4gordon 0]

But the way to prevent these things from happening is to allow MORE access to abortion, not less.

:faint: :cry

[lisah25 3]

Exactly, I agree! If you voluntarily go for an abortion (with a live fetus of course), YOU killed your baby...not God, not nature...YOU. Is it a choice? Legally, yes. But it's the height of selfishness. It's an extremely selfish "choice" to kill your baby for your own "convenience". Someone said that it's sometimes easier on the mother to kill her unborn child rather than give it up for adoption. Again, that's the height of selfishness. Chances are the baby would have liked to live!

So all abortions are performed for the mother's "convenience"? That will come as a surprise to some people I know.

[skyeblu79 0]

I said that there is a SHORTAGE of babies to adopt here, so people go overseas to adopt. That's true. I have a friend who fosters all kinds of babies and young children - drug babies and multi-racial babies and special needs children. They have all been adopted. It's the older kids - the ones who are made available for adoption later - who have a hard time being adopted. Babies are a commodity in very short supply.

Okay, don't babies grow up to be the older children. All babies don't get adopted and being a foster child is a lot different that being adopted. There are a lot of foster children that could be adopted, but aren't. There are a lot of people that will foster a child, but not adopt. I didn't even realize that we still had orphanges here until I was in college.

My friend had a hard time getting adopted b/c she had to older siblings. She stayed in foster care until she aged out.

The family that I knew said it was easier for them to get a kid in another country so they chose Russia.

I was just looking up statistics and this was listed for FL. Children that need to be adopted.

"A total of 507 children 15 or over need families, 742 are 11-14 year olds, 440 are 6-10 year olds and 226 are 0-5 year olds. Of those 0-5, all are members of sibling groups who want to be adopted by one family or have serious medical needs. "

[missy4gordon 0]

Okay, so what if the Dad wants the baby? Does the mother still have a right to abort it if the Dad is wanting to keep the baby? After all, it is not "UNwanted" anymore.....

[skyeblu79 0]

ok, maybe if people really used common sense and RESPONSIBILTY, this would be a NON-ISSUE!!! Guess what, BIRTH CONTROL people!! Take the pill AND use a condom, a diaphram, the sponge, IUD, or it's simple, STAY OUT OF THE SACK!! Murder is NOT an acceptable birth control method simply because two people were careless. PERIOD, the end.

And I have seen kids who lived with varying forms of abuse, become adults with "normal" lives, successful lives. In fact, I am married to one. So please spare me the "they're better off" routine 'cuz I ain't buyin'.

I would LOVE, repeat LOVE to adopt a kid, but I can't afford it.....

So, what are you saying? It's okay for people to raise kids that they don't want and abuse them b/c your husband is a "normal" adult. I hate that weird, what is normal? He might just be normal to you, what's your definition of normal.

Sorry, in my 27 years I have realized that everyone doesn't have common sense. Some of these same people were unwanted children themselves and maybe didn't want their children growing up that way.