Stop having so many damn kids; population control, anyone?

[victoria21 0]

I've always known I didn't want kids. I love the kids in my family, but I don't want any of my own. If anything happened to my family members, I would take their kids in a heartbeat though.

Now this is what I find stupid, you can choose to have as many kids as you want, but if you want surgery to not have kids and you've never been married or had kids, good luck finding a doctor who will do it! In my late 20's I went to 5 different doctors and they would not give me the surgery!! But if I accidentally got pregnant, they would give me an abortion. Tell me that makes sense? We can't tell people they can't have more kids, but we can tell the people who don't want kids that they can't have the surgery to prevent it. Now in my late 30's it seems to be alot easier with places like Planned Parenthood.

I am also getting tired of people who tell me I don't know what love is until I have a child. Or tell me I will change my mind on wanting to have kids. I'm 38, trust me-I'm not changing my mind!

[Carlene 12]

What about instead of a limitation of the number of kids someone can have, certain criteria for having them? E.g. level of income per child.

Not saying I'm for or against, but I see the conversation going toward "limiting"... rather than perhaps "qualifying" - and am curious to see what you guys think.

I don't know, Wheets. Once the government gets involved, you just know it's gonna be FUBARed before long.

[Carlene 12]

The best I can figure...weight loss makes you fertile!!!

Makes you sexy, too. Even old people sexy. Or was that too much information?

[Big girl banded 0]

Just incase i didnt explain myself... my uncle has 26 children. I was very close to the oldest. I dont even know all their names and they NEVER get to go anywhere.

NO ONE can tell me that being part of a huge family like that is great. It may have fun times but they never got to do anything at all... they pretty much lived in "their world" ... that is not thriving to me...

But to each his own. I am glad my mother stopped at 3.

[Sunta 5]

My main concern is the environment and our dwindling natural resources around the world, not just here in the US.

I don't think the government should be able to legislate how many children people are allowed to have, but I do wish that people would be responsible on their own and realize the burden each child places on the earth, because each child really does place a burden on the earth and the ozone layer.

Ideally people would "replace" themselves and that's it.

Personally, I don't have children, but if I did, I would never have more than two, because I am educated with regard to the environmental problems we are facing now.

But wishing that people would do a little reading and research is futile, because people always just want to do what the hell they want and they don't seem to care about anything else.

And when God comes into the picture with regard to this issue, well then forget it, because all logic and intellect goes right out the window.

Also just had to note I am in Memphis for vacation right now and I find it truly horrifying that we came across a giant replica of the Statue of Liberty (about 20 stories high), holding an enormous cross in her hand instead of a torch and the ten commandments in her other hand. On the base of it, it says "America return to Christ".

If that's not illogical and ignorant, then I don't know what is.

[the best me 6]

And when God comes into the picture with regard to this issue, well then forget it, because all logic and intellect goes right out the window.

Also just had to note I am in Memphis for vacation right now and I find it truly horrifying that we came across a giant replica of the Statue of Liberty (about 20 stories high), holding an enormous cross in her hand instead of a torch and the ten commandments in her other hand. On the base of it, it says "America return to Christ".

If that's not illogical and ignorant, then I don't know what is.

I'm amazed to no end that this kind of talk is okay. I'm a Christian, Bible-thumper, Jesus Freak, whatever, and I don't go around venting in the Rants and Raves section about "all you godless heathens...ruining America with your ignorant thinking...how can you be so illogical and dumb..." yada yada. Don't you preach tolerence and freedom and respect for the beliefs of others? How is it okay for you to openly scoff and disrespect the sacred beliefs of others? You don't have to agree with me, but you have to respect me. I'm just amazed at the double-standard. The hypocrisy. It's unbelievable!

[missy4gordon 0]

I'm amazed to no end that this kind of talk is okay. I'm a Christian, Bible-thumper, Jesus Freak, whatever, and I don't go around venting in the Rants and Raves section about "all you godless heathens...ruining America with your ignorant thinking...how can you be so illogical and dumb..." yada yada. Don't you preach tolerence and freedom and respect for the beliefs of others? How is it okay for you to openly scoff and disrespect the sacred beliefs of others? You don't have to agree with me, but you have to respect me. I'm just amazed at the double-standard. The hypocrisy. It's unbelievable!

I'm with you Kathy! It's hard to sit back and swallow all the disrespect, but it doesn't get us anywhere to defend ourselves either. We just get trashed a little more, and more, and more.....

[Boo Boo Kitty 3]

Personally, I feel that the government should not be telling us how many kids we can have. It should be something that we take the responsibility to do ourselves.

Brandy, if you ask your friend how much time she spent taking care of her 16 siblings, I will bet a lot of money that she will say, "A lot." To me, that's inexcusable. When a couple has 17 kids, they simply don't have time to give them all the attention they should have. If "middle-child syndrome" is so bad when there are only three kids, think how bad it is when you are stuck in the middle of 17. Between working to provide the necessities for 17 kids and actually attempting to care for 17 kids, there isn't enough time in the day. Kids should be kids. They shouldn't be forced into the role of parent or caretaker simply because their parents decided to pop out sixteen other kids. Learning responsibility is great, but it can easily be taught without having to have 17 kids. Those kids are probably more responsible than most adults you know because they were forced to essentially grow up a lot earlier. They weren't allowed to be the kids they should have been.

I am firm believer in not having more kids than you and your spouse can take care of. It isn't considered "kosher" to send them off to live with Granny when you start having more than you can look after at one time, so why is it okay to have your older kids become surrogate parents? If the only way you can take care of all your kids is to have other people (even family) look after them, you have had too many.

Your friend's family sounds great on the surface, but look deeper. Were they allowed to be kids? Or were they forced to grow up before they were ready because Mom and Dad couldn't give everyone the attention they should have?

It is nice to judge something you really have no idea about. Fact of the matter is there was more LOVE and support in that house than 10 houses down their street put together. Her father was an administrator of a hospital and had PLENTY of money to take care of them. They also had other family members outside of the family that help when they it, such as parents need a night out ect.

I spent a good part of my life in Sarah's house becaluse I had just one sibling and my parents couldn't even to take care of us. If I was home there was a good chance I was going to be sexually abused by a family member. If I HAD 16 siblings that were looking out for me what are the chances that would have never happened to me? There are some parents who have 1 child and can't pay attention to them.

It is so nice to be able to look in and to judge without knowing the real truth. I feel that everyone should be able to choose how many kids they do or DO NOT have, but ultimately they should only have as many as they have love for, for some people that number is ZERO.

And I know for a fact that Sarah was still her own person, she spent just as much time outside her family life being a kid. And there are worse ways to be forced to grow up, believe me, I know.

[Carlene 12]

I am a church-goer, a Christian, and a strong defender of free speech. You were not "trashed" by Sunta's post, IMHO. There was nothing personal in her message. She just has a different point of view and she has a huge problem with co-mingling church and state, hence her "horrified" reaction to the Statue of Liberty holding the Ten Commandments.

Rants and Raves is an open forum. As long as there is no flaming of members, it's pretty much a free-for-all. My opinions (and religious beliefs) get battered on a regular basis. That's okay. I'm a scraper.

As for respecting your beliefs (or mine)....no one has to. It's that simple. Not here, not anywhere. Maybe that's not making nice, but it's the way it is. So go ahead and tell all the godless heathens that they're going to hell in a handbasket. Vent your spleen. They have it coming!

And you can tell me off, too. It's perfectly alright. I just love the smell of burning rhetoric in the morning, don't you?

[the best me 6]

I just love the smell of burning rhetoric in the morning, don't you?

Oy! The burning rhetoric is exhausting! SIGH.

Here's the deal though. I don't go around damning people to Hell. And if I did, I'd be called a judgemental hypocrite. I'm just pointing out the judgemental hypocrisy I see in someone, who, as a self-procalimed educated person, has become what she scorns. Just without the Religion. That's all. It's frustrating to see snooty attitudes about how dumb and stupid and uneducated and idiotic OTHER people are. This isn't the only thread like this I have read lately either. We are ALL fat (or were) so you'd think we'd have SOME common ground, right? Perhaps not. I wanna feel the love. Not feel ill at ease and ridiculed because of my personal religious beliefs. I don't think that's too much to ask on a public forum, where we "should" all be respected.

[GeezerSue 7]

Oy! The burning rhetoric is exhausting! SIGH.

Here's the deal though. I don't go around damning people to Hell. And if I did, I'd be called a judgemental hypocrite. I'm just pointing out the judgemental hypocrisy I see in someone, who, as a self-procalimed educated person, has become what she scorns. Just without the Religion. That's all. It's frustrating to see snooty attitudes about how dumb and stupid and uneducated and idiotic OTHER people are. This isn't the only thread like this I have read lately either. We are ALL fat (or were) so you'd think we'd have SOME common ground, right? Perhaps not. I wanna feel the love. Not feel ill at ease and ridiculed because of my personal religious beliefs. I don't think that's too much to ask on a public forum, where we "should" all be respected.

This is ridiculous. It's a little quiz for the people with room temperature IQ's? If you don't mention names, you can attack others? So, how many atheists have disagreed with something you've written here? Big mystery, eh? You wouldn't like how that nameless attacking works in reverse, so maybe it's not a good idea to go there.

Personal religious (and political) beliefs--once posted in this forum--are not exempt from being examined and challenged. If you cannot tell the difference between your being ridiculed and your beliefs being challenged, perhaps posting about them in a somewhat public place isn't a great idea.

"Feeling the love?" On the Rants and Raves Board? Well, it's possible, but less likely than anywhere else here.

Sincerely,

(One of the Potential) Self-Proclaimed Educated Person(s)

[missy4gordon 0]

I'm wrong, you're right. I'm an idiot, you are a genius. MEEOW.

[Carlene 12]

Oy! The burning rhetoric is exhausting! SIGH.

Here's the deal though. I don't go around damning people to Hell. And if I did, I'd be called a judgemental hypocrite. I'm just pointing out the judgemental hypocrisy I see in someone, who, as a self-procalimed educated person, has become what she scorns. Just without the Religion. That's all. It's frustrating to see snooty attitudes about how dumb and stupid and uneducated and idiotic OTHER people are. This isn't the only thread like this I have read lately either. We are ALL fat (or were) so you'd think we'd have SOME common ground, right? Perhaps not. I wanna feel the love. Not feel ill at ease and ridiculed because of my personal religious beliefs. I don't think that's too much to ask on a public forum, where we "should" all be respected.

Yes, "we" as individuals should all be respected. That's not the same thing as demanding respect for your particular belief system. And it's not respectful to call someone else a "judgmental hypocrite", by the way. (Yes you did...."pointing out" her so-called "judgmental hypocracy" is the same thing, and you are smart enough to know it, so I'm not letting you slide on that one.)

Education does not make people smart. I think that some fundamentalists are anti-intellectual because they have a tendency to argue with history, but that doesn't mean they are uneducated. In fact, it's much worse. You can buy those people books and send them to school, but all they're gonna do is eat the pencils.

[GeezerSue 7]

It is nice to judge something you really have no idea about. Fact of the matter is there was more LOVE and support in that house than 10 houses down their street put together. Her father was an administrator of a hospital and had PLENTY of money to take care of them. They also had other family members outside of the family that help when they it, such as parents need a night out ect.

I spent a good part of my life in Sarah's house becaluse I had just one sibling and my parents couldn't even to take care of us. If I was home there was a good chance I was going to be sexually abused by a family member. If I HAD 16 siblings that were looking out for me what are the chances that would have never happened to me? There are some parents who have 1 child and can't pay attention to them.

It is so nice to be able to look in and to judge without knowing the real truth. I feel that everyone should be able to choose how many kids they do or DO NOT have, but ultimately they should only have as many as they have love for, for some people that number is ZERO.

And I know for a fact that Sarah was still her own person, she spent just as much time outside her family life being a kid. And there are worse ways to be forced to grow up, believe me, I know.

First, family size, no matter how I may disagree with the choice being made, is just something that has to be left to the family. In fact, I want ALL reproductive issues to be left to the family.

Then, while it may have been the Happiest Place on Earth in your youth, you just can't generalize what happened in that one home to large families in general.

My dad was one of ten kids born to his parents and there was almost nothing that resembled love going on in that home. It wasn't about what God wanted, it was about what my grandfather wanted...and he wanted sex. My grandmother (theirs was an "arranged marriage") had no choices, ergo, there were kids. Eight of them survived childhood. Three of the eight had NO children. One had four children, and the other four had two kids each. In other words, nobody in THAT famliy thought it was such a good idea they wanted to recreate the scene as adults. There are five still living (ages 73-87) and they can barely tolerate each other.

My mom had one aunt who had six kids, was widowed, remarried and had three more. Husband #2 found a way to not only molest, but actually impregnate one of the kids from the first marriage...even in that house full of people. (And, BTW, everyone blamed the daughter because "he was a good man." You had to say stuff like that about the breadwinner back then. So she and her baby were sent off to find their way in the world. She was, of course, a psychological basket case and NOTHING there turned out okay.)

There are good and bad small families and large ones. But while the part about the older ones serving as surrogate parents can be true in small families it is far more common in mega-famiies.

We just had a laugh over this issue at a family gathering. I am--55 years after the fact--still catching hell because I wouldn't stop playing something (hey...I'd waited a long time for it to be my turn) and help my sister (my only sibling) cross the street. So she stood there crying until our Mom heard her. Unfortunately, while doing so, she wet her pants. She was upset and was saying, "Susie wouldn't cross me." (Of course, I got busted for not being a good big sister.) But I finally mentioned--last Sunday--that she was "probably four years old and I was probably five and who the hell leaves a five-year-old in charge of ANYTHING?" And, now that my little sister is the grandmother of a six year old, she looked at our mother and said, "Yeah! Why was Sue in charge?"

But wherever it fits in, my sister STILL says, "Susie wouldn't cross me." LOL

[GeezerSue 7]

I'm wrong, you're right. I'm an idiot, you are a genius. MEEOW.

SEE? We CAN agree on some things.

(I'm not even sure what YOUR panties are in a bunch about. But if lashing out at yourself helps...)