IF He Did It?????

[Devana 0]

There is a missing post here that showed up in my email. I hope it's been deleted.

[Carlene 12]

There is a missing post here that showed up in my email. I hope it's been deleted.

Wow! That's strange. Sounds like someone posted a message, then decided to PM you instead. Is that a likely scenario?

[Devana 0]

No, it wasn't a PM.

[lisah25 3]

He was found not guilty in the system that was designed to free the innocent and jail the guilty. So why are so many people still calling him murderer? I think it's all based on the issue of race, personally.

And the system isn't perfect. Sometimes innocent people are jailed, sometimes guilty go free.

I TOTALLY disagree it was about race. I think it was about money and fame. Had he not been OJ, had he just been Joe Blow from down the street, I really believe he'd be in prison now.

[lisah25 3]

And speaking of money, Nicole's family had their hands out the whole time OJ and Nicole were together. They spent up his money and bought themselves a whole new lifestyle. They never said a word about what a terrible person OJ was then. All of a sudden he's the worst person in the world when she turns up dead. Don't get me wrong, I'm sorry she's dead. It's a shame that the Goldman boy got caught in the crossfire. But as much as we rely on the court system to fairly do their job, it is counterintuitive to me that this one instance has people so convinced that he is guilty of murder. If it was so apparent, he'd be rotting in prison right now.

Maybe he did it, maybe he was involved, maybe it was her drug dealer - but the bottom line and end result is he is not guilty according to our judicial system and is a free man with the ability to do whatever he wants.

I hadn't heard that they all had their hands out for OJ's money while he was alive. I thought also I had heard that her sister in particular didn't like OJ or how he treated her. Have you ever had a family member involved with someone you didn't like, where you were actually scared for them? It's a tightrope. You don't want to say too much, because you want your loved one to be able to communicate with you, you don't want to push them away. And you don't want to set the scary person off.

And yes, he's a free man able to do what he wants. It's also true the rest of us can have and express opinions about what he does. I think it's beyond words that he wrote such a book about the mother of his children.

[Carlene 12]

No, it wasn't a PM.

Hmmmm....well, sometimes people post things "in the heat of the moment", only to decide later that they may have gone too far, so they delete the post. The message would still get thru to everyone who has signed up to receive e-mail notification, however. Is that what you are referring to?

[Devana 0]

Yes, and if I had stopped to think about it I would have figured it out and said nothing. However, I was sputtering after I read it and raced over here to reply only to find nothing. It's best left and forgotten.

[Carlene 12]

Yes, and if I had stopped to think about it I would have figured it out and said nothing. However, I was sputtering after I read it and raced over here to reply only to find nothing. It's best left and forgotten.

Like a computer's hard drive, these things are never truly deleted. If one person received the message, you can bet your sweet patootie that 10 more got it via PM....including me. Kind of makes you step back and take a deep breath or two before you hit the "submit" button, doesn't it?

[barbara465 2]

Carlene you look fabulous, simply fabulous. Mr. Carlene must be waiting by the chimney for you!!!

Unfortunatley OJ was found not guilty by the system. The prosecutors just got out smarted by the defense team. It's the way the system works. I still find it odd that a person can be found not guilty in criminal and guilty in civil. The system can't take their life, but can take their money. Doesn't make much sense.

[Nathalie 4]

No, it made me realize that there is no sense arguing a point like this one because racial biases and racial condescention is ingrained.

Repost it if you want. I stand by what I believe, I just felt that there was no sense in going further with this discussion since neither of us are going to change our minds.

I believe you are racially biased. Whether you are a racist or not, only you can make that claim. But to say that a certain black person is either a credit or a debit to the race is a notion caught in a time long passed.

As MY grandmother used to say, you can't reason with a pig.

[Carlene 12]

No, it made me realize that there is no sense arguing a point like this one because racial biases and racial condescention is ingrained.

Repost it if you want. I stand by what I believe, I just felt that there was no sense in going further with this discussion since neither of us are going to change our minds.

I believe you are racially biased. Whether you are a racist or not, only you can make that claim. But to say that a certain black person is either a credit or a debit to the race is a notion caught in a time long passed.

As MY grandmother used to say, you can't reason with a pig.

Haven't you read all the posts? I admitted I was a racist, for crying out loud...and an anti-feminist. I am also guilty of posting disparaging remarks about chickens, George Bush, and Scott Peterson. In this one thread, I have managed to offend the NAACP, PETA, the entire Republican Party, the women's movement (whatever they are calling it now days), the Paris Hilton Fan Club, and probably the ACLU. It's been a great day for free speech!

And your grandmother was right. May I point out, however, that "unreasonable" is a subjective term. Since there are two sides to every argument, there are always two potential pigs. So....if you can't take it, hon, you need to be very careful about dishing it out.

[Nathalie 4]

I have read all the posts, which is more than I can say for you. You're just full of sarcasm and non sequiturs, aren't you, Carlene. It's easier for you to make broad statements and put words in my mouth instead of answering the genuine questions I posed to you earlier. And I understand. This is not a comfortable conversation for you to have.

Like I said, this discourse is pointless. I did not call you a racist. You called yourself a racist. I did not say you insulted the entire black race. Re-read and show me the post number where I did say those things if you don't believe me. When I reposted your comments, you accused me of trickery. Those were your words Carlene. Your beliefs.

To say that a person is a credit/debit to his or her race means that this one person either brings the race up or down based on his/her actions. Where is the logic in that? Do you believe that ALL people are either a credit or a debit to a certain race? Or just minorities? Have you ever told a white person that he/she is a credit to the race? It's neither right or wrong to think it, but it is inappropriate. Do you really believe that people represent their race? Are there people who transcend race? Are there "good" blacks and "bad" blacks? Help me understand. On second hand, don't.

As a white woman, have you ever felt the need to distance yourself from other whites who are guilty of crimes? Did you feel the need to let the world know that all whites are not like Jeffrey Dahmer or Susan Smith? I didn't. The thought never crossed my mind.

So why should black people feel the need to distance themselves from OJ just because he's black? Does his act, the act of one black man, make all black people suspects? I didn't understand the statement that if you were black you wouldn't "claim" him. What kind of logical sense does that even make? You said if you were black you wouldn't want him grouped together with you. Again, where is the logical sense? All blacks are grouped together in your mind? And then you said something to the effect that OJ is only black in the broadest sense of the word.

From your posts, I think that you've got a built-in notion about what it means to be black. You think Bill Cosby is a credit to the race. What about Oprah? Barak Obama? If you met them would you tell them that? And if you did tell a black person that they are a "credit" to the race, how would you expect them to react? Do you imagine they would be pleased that they're representing their race in a positive light? I have black friends, and I guarantee it would be seen as a back handed compliment at best. To say that a black is a credit to his/her race implies that he is better or different than all the others - AND that all the others are not as good as, say... whites. Otherwise why single them out?

Whether there is something more behind your distatesful comments is for someone other than me to decide. I honestly don't care one way or another if you're a racist, a bigot, a klansman or a supremicist. I am grateful to have a more Enlightened, educated, accepting group of friends with whom to interact. In my opinion you are debit to our race, and I'm ashamed to have to claim you.

[Carlene 12]

Nathalie...

I really don't know what it is that you want from me. If I say I'm not a racist, that offends you. If I say I am a racist, that pisses you off, too.

Would it be fair to conclude that you are just looking for something to bitch about? Or would that be offensive, as well?

[Nathalie 4]

Nathalie...

I really don't know what it is that you want from me. If I say I'm not a racist, that offends you. If I say I am a racist, that pisses you off, too.

Would it be fair to conclude that you are just looking for something to bitch about? Or would that be offensive, as well?

Carlene --

To be honest, I don't even know how we got to where we are. I was initially upset because you said I called you a racist; I didn't. I don't know you to make such a claim. I don't beileve you are a racist, but I found some of your comments to be distasteful. I also never said I was offended by what you wrote - I said it was close to being offensive. There is a difference.

I'm not looking for "something to bitch about," but I thought at some point, we were having a civil conversation that somewhere took a really wrong turn. In the beginning of this thread I was trying to understand what you meant by certain things you wrote. I don't like to draw conclusions about what others write; it is so easy to have miscommunications over the Internet. I also don't like it when people put words in my mouth or make generalizations about what I say/think. I just tried to clarify my thoughts, and each time we descended further and further into disagreement. In trying to understand what you meant I think I stepped on your toes. I even apologized for that, it was not my intent to make you feel defensive.

Regardless, at the heart of our discussion we agree. As a man, OJ is a disgusting example of a human being.

I hope there are no hard feelings. And again, if you ever believed I was attacking your character I wasn't. I apologize.

[green 6]

To say that a person is a credit/debit to his or her race means that this one person either brings the race up or down based on his/her actions. Where is the logic in that? Do you believe that ALL people are either a credit or a debit to a certain race? Or just minorities? Have you ever told a white person that he/she is a credit to the race? It's neither right or wrong to think it, but it is inappropriate. Do you really believe that people represent their race? Are there people who transcend race? Are there "good" blacks and "bad" blacks? Help me understand. On second hand, don't.

As a white woman, have you ever felt the need to distance yourself from other whites who are guilty of crimes? Did you feel the need to let the world know that all whites are not like Jeffrey Dahmer or Susan Smith? I didn't. The thought never crossed my mind.

So why should black people feel the need to distance themselves from OJ just because he's black? Does his act, the act of one black man, make all black people suspects? I didn't understand the statement that if you were black you wouldn't "claim" him. What kind of logical sense does that even make? You said if you were black you wouldn't want him grouped together with you. Again, where is the logical sense? All blacks are grouped together in your mind? And then you said something to the effect that OJ is only black in the broadest sense of the word.

From your posts, I think that you've got a built-in notion about what it means to be black. You think Bill Cosby is a credit to the race. What about Oprah? Barak Obama? If you met them would you tell them that? And if you did tell a black person that they are a "credit" to the race, how would you expect them to react? Do you imagine they would be pleased that they're representing their race in a positive light? I have black friends, and I guarantee it would be seen as a back handed compliment at best. To say that a black is a credit to his/her race implies that he is better or different than all the others - AND that all the others are not as good as, say... whites. Otherwise why single them out?

My mother used to use that phrase "a credit to his race" and she was not a racist. She did, however, come from a different era when the races were seen, perhaps, as much more separate than we are accustomed to seeing people today. Because she was white she took her own race for granted and did not think much about who was or wasn't a credit to the white race, though she did, as a Scotswoman, become quite pleased when a fellow Scot did well. A credit to the Scots, I guess....

I think that it is obvious that Carlene is not a racist but it is true that she had used an old fashioned and ultimately racist phrase earlier on in this discussion. This is likely because she didn't pay attention to what is implicit in that phrase. NGAdams' post, which I have quoted above, does a fine job of explaining everything that is wrong in saying "a credit to his race," a saying that I also find condescending, by the way.

And by the way, Carlene, you look smashing in your photos.