Any Regrets

[beversman 0]

I will pass on the this message/advice that I recieved from some fellow bandsters. I figured they were the best people to listen to since they've been on this site for such a long time... and as Sue keeps telling us experience speaks volumes.

They said:

Don't agitate the troll...

[GeezerSue 7]

Angyl,

You are sure right about the entertaining part.

Geezer,

I agree with some of your "list" but some of it is bs.

#1--

Where in the world did you get that information? From an RNY or DS website?

So what do you mean by surgery is over in a day?

I don't have time to write a book, so I just picked a couple of highlights.

I hope that people researching have enough intelligence to filter through the bs that they have to get through to get to the point that some people do regret having the surgery. Sure, there will always be someone that has issues. No lightbulb there.

#1--Okay, here's a simple chart from a surgical group that does ALL FOUR of these procedures...so they can make money from whatever procedure you choose, therefore they have no financial motivation to have a "favorite" procedure:

http://www.lapsf.com/weight-loss-surgeries.html

You can only look at the average results with each surgery, because those are based on the big picture and years of results. The AVERAGE 280 pound person whose ideal weight is 140 will have the following results two years out or so:

With the band, she will weigh 196, with a BMI of around 37 or 38. (If the comorbidities still exist, she will STILL be eligible for wls.)

With the RnY, she will weigh 182, with a BMI of around 32 or 33.

With the DS, she will weigh 168, with a BMI of around 29 or 30.

And the average risks are in direct proportion to the average loss, with a lower motality rate from the band, next mortality rate from the RnY and the higher mortality rate from the DS. (And, yes, there are people who lose MORE...but for every person who loses more there is someone who loses LESS, that's how we get averages.) Someone--maybe it was Cin--said she wanted a surgery from which she was more likely to wake up. Second time around, I wanted a surgery from which I was more likely to achieve a normal weight.

#2--The surgical procedures take from 40 minutes to a few hours, depending on how many complications there are once surgery begins. The surgery-related mortality rates cover death FOR ANY REASON in the 30 days following surgery. The surgery itself is over in a day. But a higher percentage of patients survive the banding surgery than survive the other surgeries, no doubt about it.

Then comes the hard part. IF you are dying from morbid obesity...and IF you have a surgery that works, you STOP dying from morbid obesity. If however, you have a surgery that leaves you STILL morbidly obese (which is the reason Blue Cross-CA gives for no longer covering the band for patients with BMI's of 50 or higher, but applies equally to any surgery that doesn't work for YOU), then you are STILL dying from morbid obesity.

#3--Finally, look at your last paragraph. The OP on this thread wasn't trying to AVOID people with regrets. The OP was seeking out those who had regrets...and ends up with a shitload of people who are pre-banded and just banded insisting that those who DO have regrets with their own experience shouldn't mention it. Brilliant.

I hope this information helped.

~~~~

Oh..and some "supportive" person here was gloating because I paid cash for my band and was glad that I was out of pocket for the money. For the record, it was only ten grand and I wrote a fucking check. I'm sorry that, in this day and age, $10,000 is such a huge number to you...whoever you are. If you want to laugh at someone who had to get a loan or mortgage the house and is not happy with what surgery THEY purchased, you'll need to move along and find a poorer person to laugh at...which I'm sure you'll be both able and inclined to do. (And, also for the record, I had contacted a couple of European surgeons who had been taking bands out for years and was going to pay cash for the second surgery...until we learned that with the damage the band was causing and because I again met surgery criteria, my insurance would pick up the tab for the revision.)

[GeezerSue 7]

In my life I have done hundreds of things I regret, and the biggest of which was allowing myself to become overweight. I have, whole-heartedly, tried several things to help manage my weight, some have worked, some haven't. I have made the conscious AND EDUCATED choice to pursue the lap-band. There are risks, there are complications, there are possible side-effects. There are risks and complications in driving a car, smoking cigarettes, doing drugs, eatting fatty foods, flying in an airplane, cliff diving, having sex, staying up all night...and the list goes on. All of those behaviors, I have at some time in my life, engaged in. The dangers of pretty much all of those behaviors I had also been educated in, however I STILL chose to do them. The simple fact is, they were MY choices, as this is MY choice, and OUR CHOICE. I highly doubt that the negative rantings of an online avenger are going to persuade convince people that they are wrong with THEIR choice for THEIR lives. I am sure if any of us was either motivated enough or cared enough to research the happy vs. unhappy band patients, the results would be more favorable for those who do not regret their choice. But that's a moot point. It's evident that you just like to type to feel important. I see more people speaking against you than in support of you. You're like that ominous cloud over the Macy parade; a cyber terrorist in direct opposition of anything lap-band. I guess all the people who have had great success over substantial lengths of time are all lying. Hopefully they stumble upon this message board so they too can see the light!

If you don't want to read about negative results, you might try NOT OPENING threads asking for people with regrets to speak up.

Where were you on reading comprehension day? I repeatedly say that the band works for some people. What is there about that statment that makes it invisible to you?

[GeezerSue 7]

I will pass on the this message/advice that I recieved from some fellow bandsters. I figured they were the best people to listen to since they've been on this site for such a long time... and as Sue keeps telling us experience speaks volumes.

They said:

Don't agitate the troll...

"Fellow bandsters?" Did they move up your surgery date? Honey, I'm a fellow bandster...you are an anxious pre-op probably hoping that your surgery will be perfect and scared to death it won't and--to deal with that fear--you want everyone who is saying something you don't want to hear to go away. Ain't gonna happen.

If you are comfortable with your choice of surgery, hearing about the risks involved shouldn't get your panties in a bunch. But, if it does, STOP OPENING THREADS THAT DEAL WITH PROBLEMS, COMPLICATIONS AND REGRETS!!! Or, stop bitching about what you read when you get there.

[cinward2001 0]

2--The most successful procedures carry the highest risks.

3--The RnY and DS are not the killer surgeries that band-or-nothing people claim they are. (If they were, our insurance companies would use that excuse to not pay for those surgeries.)

7--LapBand and RnY have similar long-term results.

Sue, again, for much of your post, I agree with you. I'm glad that people who have had problems with the band stick around because prospective bandsters DO need to know potential problems.

The parts of your post that I don't agree with are quoted above.

2. Studies are showing that banding is AS SUCCESSFUL as RNY by the 3rd year. Yes, RNYers lose more weight more quickly and initially, but it averages out...and as more long-term studies are done, there's some evidence that, by year 5, banding is MORE successful.

3. You can't use insurance companies as "proof" that RNY is safe. Insurance companies covered phen-fen once upon a time. Insurance companies "follow" the FDA, and the FDA is notorious for NOT approving some obviously safe drugs and procedures while others get pushed through quickly. RNY was approved by the FDA before lapbanding because initially, RNY was studied more. Just as many doctors are switching to LapBanding more than RNY, eventually, insurance companies will catch up.

7. Again, studies are showing that in regards to weight loss, Lapbanding is MORE successful long term because RNYers often regain weight. But also, there are serious medical problems that can accompany RNY long term, such as bone loss, muscle wasting, Vitamin deficiencies, etc. Now, maybe once LapBand has been around for 10 years (in the US), we'll find problems with it, too...but for now, LapBand is the safest WLS available.

Cindy

[angyl2314 1]

If you don't want to read about negative results, you might try NOT OPENING threads asking for people with regrets to speak up.

Where were you on reading comprehension day? I repeatedly say that the band works for some people. What is there about that statment that makes it invisible to you?

Are you 7 years old? "where were you on reading comprehension day?" I think we got a "buh bye" in a former post. Shall we be expecting a cool "I know you are but what am I" sometime today? I sure hope so. I work with kids. Maybe I can get one of the 3rd graders up here during lunch to give me some witty retorts so I can be on your level of argument.

Anyway, was I correct about you being self pay? If so, I can understand why you're so bitter; wasting all the money because you can't make a tool work for you. Nice!

[TamifromAL 1]

Any moderators on here today? I think it's time!

:closed_2: :lock1: :lock1: :lock1: :lock1: :lock1: :lock1: :rip:

[beversman 0]

I've already reported the thread -- or at least the inappropriate posts on it. They should be coming soon. :-)

:deadhorse: = dead horse

[GeezerSue 7]

Cindy,

I agree with most of YOUR post. The band-bypass comparisons are a little shaky because someone like Fielding in NY has a wonderful follow-up program (as he did in Australia) and YEARS of experience and his results show that. But there are now HUNDREDS of banding surgeons in the US and many of them have little experience and no follow-up programs.

Years ago, CoffeeWench, one of the original bandsters in this country put it something like this...OF THOSE WHO ARE GOING TO FAIL, the RnY people lose weight and regain it and the banded people never leave morbid obesity...only she said it better. Anyway, an unbiased comprehensive comparison from multiple practices is in order.

The RnY didn't have to be approved by the FDA becasue there is no appliance involved. Same with DS. Only the band needed FDA approval, because it is an implanted device. (Although I'm not sure where the silastic ring used in the Fobi pouch falls...)

I wouldn't trust an insurance company to make any decision I had an opinion about...I'm just saying that if they had an excuse to deny those surgeries, they would. I have BC-CA. First they didn't cover the band. Then, after I got mine, they did. Now they do, but only for BMI's under 50. They covered DS when I got it. This week, they're saying it's "investigational," EVEN THOUGH MEDICARE HAS JUST APPROVED IT...which pretty much proves it isn't investigational. If they could deny claims based on the risks of the surgery, they would.

And yes, the RnY people have to watch out for malabsorption. Not as much as DS people do, but they have some malabsorption. I cannot tell you how many people I have seen who just don't have the resources to follow up, whatever the surgery...people who have killer reflux and are aspirating stomach acids who can't afford a band adjustments because they got a divorce after surgery and now have no medical insurance...or the NURSE at my DS surgeons office who told all of us to take OUR supplements and then neglected to take her Calcium (DS'ers HAVE TO TAKE calcium...forever) and ended up on calcium INFUSIONS every day...or RnY people who have NO money and don't take Vitamins and don't have labs and (really, you can google it) end up with" bariatric beriberi."

~~~~~~~~

StephC...I do not think that all pre-ops are uninformed, although some very much are. I think that pre-ops are inexperienced. Like love and marriage and babies and all that good stuff...until you've been there, it's all theoretical. This was a thread asking for regrets...from those who have been through the experience.

[GeezerSue 7]

Are you 7 years old? "where were you on reading comprehension day?" I think we got a "buh bye" in a former post. Shall we be expecting a cool "I know you are but what am I" sometime today? I sure hope so. I work with kids. Maybe I can get one of the 3rd graders up here during lunch to give me some witty retorts so I can be on your level of argument.

Anyway, was I correct about you being self pay? If so, I can understand why you're so bitter; wasting all the money because you can't make a tool work for you. Nice!

Again, I'm sorry that they don't pay day care workers any better...but the money for the band just wasn't a huge deal for me. And it wasn't about making a tool work...it was about esophageal damage.

[itsuptome 0]

I havnt read all the post and dont intend to but I do have something to say. Maybe im the "can't we all just get along" kinda person but geez, why do we have to be so childish? I mean really Geezer, I certainly appreciate your story, as a prebander myself and the information you have provided. I know what the sx risk are and chances of it being unsucessful. I think most of us would love your input but not the negative, name calling juvenile behavior. I understand your frustration and bitterness from the failed band, I would assume most of us do, we have all had failed plans etc when it comes to wl. Maybe you could try being more supportive and kind rather than bitter and mean. I think you have an important message to tell and I for one want to hear it just not surrounded by filth and personal attacks. I would love to know why the band didnt work, is there anything u did or didnt do that may have affected its success? What would u suggest to those of us that are getting the band (the decision is made) to prevent failure if there is anything. I am guessing you feel somewhat personally responsible for the fail since you are soooo bitter. And maybe some kind words about other options and what to do if in fails. You know, as someone who had the band fail and moved on to another procedure with great success you could be an inspiration not a source of negativity and self doubt for those of us who just want hope! (please dont slam my sp etc. I went to az schools and cant spell, lol)

[marys 2]

I'm not reading all these posts either but I did want to respond to your question for suggestions -of course, I'm not Sue but the band didn't work for me either so here is a suggestion from me...

I would love to know why the band didnt work, is there anything u did or didnt do that may have affected its success? What would u suggest to those of us that are getting the band (the decision is made) to prevent failure if there is anything.

I would suggest you have any and all metabolic tests done before banding just in case there are other issues going on with you and losing weight. I should have done that before banding because now I've spent all this money with the band and just starting getting tested for a myriad of things. Maybe they will find something, maybe they won't but it looks like it will cost me several thousand dollars more again out of pocket since i don't have insurance.

In my case, I am following the bandster diet and rules and eating tons less than prior to surgery and exercising and I'm at a dead stand still at 7lb loss - for a yo yo dieter that is pretty good because i have never stabilized my weight but its not enough to make me happy.

congrats on your decision to be banded and good luck on your journey

[itsuptome 0]

So, u prompted another ?. Do you eat under the calories they state 6-800 is what my doc says? Also, what tests are u having run? I am followed pretty closly by a myriad of dr's myself from oncology to rheumatology to nephrology so im pretty sure I've hade everything done. Ive also been on many many diets and can loose weight just cant keep it off so I am sure this is the answer for me! and im not dillusional just positive!

[GeezerSue 7]

So, u prompted another ?. Do you eat under the calories they state 6-800 is what my doc says? Also, what tests are u having run? I am followed pretty closly by a myriad of dr's myself from oncology to rheumatology to nephrology so im pretty sure I've hade everything done. Ive also been on many many diets and can loose weight just cant keep it off so I am sure this is the answer for me! and im not dillusional just positive!

My grandfather was born in Casa Grande in 1896 and I can read every word you wrote!!!

The one test I should have had but didn't was manometry. It tests the function of the esophagus...whether the the little waves--muscle spasms--that massage the food down the esophagus into the stomach are stong or weak. They tend to be weaker in older people (I was 55 when banded) and in the obese (my highest BMI was 51+.) So I was a candidate for that test.

We would have know if I had good function going into the surgery or not...and, if it was weak, a wise surgeon might have told me to go away. (Although I was so convinced that it was the band or nothing, I would probably have found another doctor.) I don't think there is anything that test could do to prevent problems, except maybe to dissuade someone who is higher risk for dysmotility issues to consider another surgery. Living with an esophagus that has shut down is miserable.

It's not a fun test...

http://www.gicare.com/pated/epdgs31.htm

[marys 2]

I'm just starting my search for an endocrinologist but I am requesting (and doing whatever he/she suggests in addition to) a thyroid test and a test for Cushings - this is new to me although i did have a thyroid test many many years ago. I too have successfuly dieted in the past although right before i chose lapband i did try weight watchers again for the 1000 time and couldn't get any weight off - so that probably should have warned me. I have food diaires for almost a year and I would always be around 1000-1300 calories - i was never a bandster that couldn't or wouldn't eat - i love food too much - so restricted but not overly. i was always one to find or say - i can't believe how fast it all adds up. i was also eating probably too much for many months as I didn't know what full is suppossed to mean -