Vet's Forum

[PdxMan 4,292]

Wow ... and ... Hmmm ...

So, I'm just going to come out and be blunt, please don't throw too many stones my way. I usually don't name "names", but I am going to break my rule here and be direct.

First off, Puja was absolutely spot on with her assessment of the thread being hijacked, but I do believe referrencing Laura was uncalled for. She did not redirect the thread, but that was done by OregonDaisy HERE. I do wish a new thread was started instead of posing a new question inside another thread and she acknowledges that in the post before this one here.

OregonDaisy, I hope you know I love and respect you terribly. I mean it. I absolutely love every single post of yours. You are one of the wisest vets here ... but that was a move I usually see from newbies. And I think you recognise that in your previous post. Thank you.

Susan, I don't think Puja was saying you shouldn't be allowed to post in the forum, but rather to not perpetuate a hijacked thread. Start another thread related to the topic you wish to discuss to have better responses.

But what I have seen are posts from newbies and pre-sleevers jumping in on threads and making posts which are outlandish and sometimes downright irresponsible. They will ask questions not related to the original thread instead of creating a new thread.

Sorry, I know this probably sounds elitist, but it makes me crazy over in the Near or At Goal forum when a pre-sleeve jumps in and posts advice or the occassional, "OMG! I can't wait until I'm skinny! How long until I get there?" response to a question.

So, what is a veteran in the context of VST ...

As I mentioned, I think everyone should be able to read the vets forum. No doubt about it. But I think a veteran is someone who has been sleeved for no less than 9 months and has at least 500 posts.

Why so long and so many posts?

From my reading and experience, 6 months is basically the point where most people are able to eat any and all foods. Drink alchohol and exercise. They have worked through all of their surgery complications and are beginning to live the "sleeve" life. So, lets have 3 months of experience doing this so when they are posting a response, they have lengthy experience.

After 500 posts, the individual should have an understanding of forum ettiquette. They most likely have the ability to not create drama and their skin is a bit thicker. They re-read a post they may misunderstand trying to see the other side of it and will not reply to posts inciting a flame war. I have seen many pre-sleevers with well over 300 posts.

As far as people recognizing posts from this forum and respecting that, the problem with that is these threads show up on the side panel, get clicked on and responded to. I have to admit I have posted several times in the band to sleeve revision forum even though I am not a revision ... I don't read the forum for which I am posting to ... suppose I should, but ...

I do believe forums like the powder Room and The Man's Room are titled with gender, they are by no means closed to that gender, nor should they be. I believe everyone polices themselves very well there. I'm not going to respond to a menstration question, but I will respond to a relationship question giving a male perspective which, I hope, is a desired thing. Vice verse for the Man's Room ... I appreciate the female perspective on some things.

It just drives me crazy when someone with 3 weeks jumps in making suggestions on a topic such as was posted here.

I know ... elitist ... if I have offended you, try re-reading the post. If you still have a resentment against me, that is your problem ... not mine. Think about it.

[*susan* 1,709]

PdxMan, I don't disagree with you. I don't necessarily disagree with Puja either. I disagreed with the statement that drinking and throwing up is a topic that should not be discussed in the vets forum, because it is a valid issue for vets. However, I may have been hasty in the way I handled my response, and that is a direct result of my frustration over another thread where a member created a topic to specifically discuss the issue of thread hijacking and it ended up being an all out attack fest on her, to where we ended up removing a topic in which very valid points were made. As the OP, you are well within your rights to say, "hey, this is not what I started this topic about, will you please start a different thread for that and return mine to topic." And as such, I would expect myself and other member to respect your request and do just that.

The problem is, where do we draw the line as to which people can post in certain forums? And how do we do that within the limits of the software we have without being overly restrictive? Vets are upset about people posting in this forum who are not what one would actually consider to be a vet. Similarly, we are having men complaining about woman posting in the men's forum, and woman complaining to us about men posting in the Powder Room. They feel those forums should be a safe place to post sensitive issues related to just their gender, without fear of the other gender coming in and making a joke of it. If a woman wants to discuss sagging breasts, she should be able to without the fear of a man coming into the room and offering to help hold them up for her. But it happens, As many people are currently complaining about, when people post about issues they are having, they are posting it because they have a serious question they want to discuss. While others may find humor in it, they need to respect the person who posted their topic, and not turn it into a bantering fest to see who can outwit the other, which has happened on way too many topics lately. We have a lounge, that is what it is for.

So, I apologize if I responded in haste last night, to Puja, and apologize for those who attacked her, which is something else that is happening entirely too much lately. Between the previously mentioned issues and the attacking, I allowed a bit of my frustrations to come out, which was not appropriate.

PdxMan, as I said before, you bring up some very valid points. I feel like the newly sleeved can learn a lot from at least being able to read what the vets are posting. Just like I feel like men could learn a lot about sensitivity to woman's issues, and vice versa, by being able to view the issues they are posting about. But, if that isn't working, then maybe we need to work together to find a reasonable solution. What would make it easier for the staff to help figure out what is best, in a way that can please as many of the different personalities we have posting here as possible, would be if the information was gathered in a more concise manner. PdxMan, you seem to have some really good thoughts on this. We just need to come up with a way to ask some very specific questions in what everyone considers a vet to be, and how this forum should be regulated. Perhaps a poll so we could gather more concrete information? I need to go get ready for work right now, so if someone wants to take the lead on this, that would be wonderful. Otherwise, I will look at it this evening. In the meantime, I will send an email to Alex so we can start discussing some ideas as well.

[Butterthebean 8,146]

It seems to me the more important factor is not "who" is posting in the veteran's forum, but rather the subject matter being discussed. I thought the vet's forum was for vet's issues. As long as it is, then the status of the poster is of minor concern.

[PdxMan 4,292]

Thanks, Susan,

We just need to come up with a way to ask some very specific questions in what everyone considers a vet to be, and how this forum should be regulated

My intention for the thread was to gather such information. I do not consider myself the end all and be all and by no means wish to be or even come off as the forum police. I will save that role for you. I don't know the limitations of the software but assumed, since it is in the description for this forum, that time from a certain date in a profile and number of posts were able to be referenced, hence the two parameters I suggested.

I disagreed with the statement that drinking and throwing up is a topic that should not be discussed in the vets forum

er

I don't see where she says this. If it was implied in any way, since the name of the thread is Vet's Forum, perhaps that may be what is being referred to, the thread, not the forum.

Similarly, we are having men complaining about woman posting in the men's forum, and woman complaining to us about men posting in the Powder Room

I had no idea there was this sentiment. I have no problem refraining from posting in the Powder Room and will respect that from now on. Perhaps there should be a similar setup of restricted access Powder/Men's Room where only that gender can post and another open Powder/Men's Room where the other gender can give their perspective. I didn't know there was a problem, but this should have been communicated out to the forum.

I know there are a lot of towel snappers recently here on VST. I am not one to quell a free spirit and I hope, as time passes and they become more of a Vet, they will better police themselves and help keep topics on topic.

I think, for the most part, we are all good people here. If we communicate the issues, we can work together to come up with a workable solution.

[Puja 148]

Thank you, Susan and Pdx, for your replies and for helping to clarify the situation. I really appreciate it!

You're absolutely right, that I should not have called out on Laura for taking the thread off topic. I apologize for that, and did not mean to upset you, Laura. I also did not want to make you feel singled out in any way, even though that is precisely what happened.

Oregondaisy and Susan, I definitely feel the topic of overeating and vomiting (or contemplating forcing yourself to vomit) is something that applies to everyone, and would love to hear view points about it in the vet's forum. I apologize if I implied that it was not a veteran topic, that was not what I meant at all.

Butterthebean, good point!

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

My 2 cents is that alot more is being made about this topic then most of us feel.

I see that the womens and mens forums are relatively lighthearted places were "off color" or adult subject matter topics are more appropriate. I personally have never felt that the cross over between the two is a bad thing.

I do believe that vets have certain topics that they would like to discuss BUT since VST is an open forum, and because of the way the feed works on the right with the newest posts - it won't be. I think that this creates a situation where it will never be a purely "veterans" or maintenance forum, oh well.

I don't want people to feel like they are doing something wrong by reading the vets forum as it is here and it is open and we were all newbies once so no hard feelings!!! It would be nice if they would think twice and consider that alot of us make effort to help newbies and maybe allowing a space to talk about Vet specific concerns would be polite... but once again, oh well.

Anyway, I am not losing sleep over it and it is true that there are things i would be more likely to discuss openly in a closed forum... but once again, oh well!

I am just grateful we have such a wonderful group here to chat with and learn from each other.

[PdxMan 4,292]

You are right, as with pretty much any thread with many posts, the intent of the original post has been lost. I don't know if it can be brought back on topic, but, let's try. My intent in posting this was to get an evaluation of what everyone thought a vet was and then suggest to the admins that a change is made to align with the general thoughts of the people. It just didn't seem the forum followed it's own guidelines posted in the description, so I assumed the definition was in flux.

What do you think constitutes a vet?

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

To me, a vet has nothing to do with number of posts. I think it is either:

1. made it to goal (low BMI people get there faster)

or

2. at least a year out

To me being a vet is about living with the sleeve over the long run.

It is about living with maintenance or for some people, getting down that last bit to goal or maybe facing that they wont make goal

It is about facing the day to day grind ... after the excitement and compliments begin to fade.

[*Dean* 1,594]

Pdx, do you think it can be something that can ever have a 'stake in the ground'?

I tend to think that it's a way of thinking and a genuine interest in the subject matter for a person at that time.

So for one person, maybe at goal in 6 months, with 120 posts might be 'at that place'. For others it might be 12 months and 1200 posts?

[puppyphat 397]

Pdx' date=' do you think it can be something that can ever have a 'stake in the ground'?

I tend to think that it's a way of thinking and a genuine interest in the subject matter for a person at that time.

So for one person, maybe at goal in 6 months, with 120 posts might be 'at that place'. For others it might be 12 months and 1200 posts?[/quote']

I agree with dean.

I'm 6 months post op, have made 300+ posts, but can go a week without posting, but read every single day. I don't always have anything relevant to add to a conversation, so I read it and then move to the next one. I've been at 120lb for a month. If I put a thread anywhere but here (or the Aussie forum) about not losing too much weight, or how to exercise and tone, without burning more calories than I can replace, the newbies get false hope that they can lose that quickly and get disappointed when they don't, and have no genuine advice for me, and the people at 6months post op get the poos that I'm rubbing my amazing loss in their faces, again, not able to offer any genuine advice.

I think a vet is someone who knows surgery, long term loss and ideally maintenance.

Just my 2 cents. I'm not a vet, so take it or leave it.

[PdxMan 4,292]

Pdx, do you think it can be something that can ever have a 'stake in the ground'?

I tend to think that it's a way of thinking and a genuine interest in the subject matter for a person at that time.

So for one person, maybe at goal in 6 months, with 120 posts might be 'at that place'. For others it might be 12 months and 1200 posts?

Nope, I do not think that it can be measured exactly. I think the true answer is quite subjective. But given with arena we have here, there needs to be measurable metrics one must surpass. Is there a perfect answer? No. Do I really think this is possible and would be enforced ... No

The bigger point here, I think, is to get people thinking of what they are doing here. Am I here to share my experience, strength and hope or am I the goofy streaker running across the field with the Union Jack painted on my hiney? Am I here to create drama or help pull the desperate person out of the freezing Water? What forums should I post to and my approach when dealing with newbies vs. veterans.

I don't have the answers, but I do know we lose vets here constantly. There is so much drama and bitchyness sometimes. I hate to see forum brain drain.

[Fiddleman 4,376]

To me' date=' a vet has nothing to do with number of posts. I think it is either:

1. made it to goal (low BMI people get there faster)

or

2. at least a year out

To me being a vet is about living with the sleeve over the long run.

It is about living with maintenance or for some people, getting down that last bit to goal or maybe facing that they wont make goal

It is about facing the day to day grind ... after the excitement and compliments begin to fade.[/quote']

Those are pretty tough requirements and are going to exclude a lot of members (including me), but maybe you are right. It might be better for membership to be formed this way.

[Oregondaisy 2,021]

My feelings are not hurt at all. I definitely got side tracked.

Vets is definitely a maintenance issue. It has nothing to do with number of posts. Suppose someone just found this board who has been sleeved longer than me, and is having trouble with weight gain. They would be starting out with very few posts.

I don't think being at goal should be a requirement either, because some people never make it what ever goal they wanted or their doctor wanted, but they still lost

a lot of weight.

I'll leave it up to the board administers to decide this issue.

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

I only answered this because I was asked what " vet" means to me. As long as it is an open forum lots of people will post and I am not overly concerned about it.

[*Dean* 1,594]

Am I here to share my experience, strength and hope or am I the goofy streaker running across the field with the Union Jack painted on my hiney? Am I here to create drama or help pull the desperate person out of the freezing Water?

I think brain drain will always be a problem for a forum like this and lots of people will move on and not see the need to come here. But I think you're right, minimising it is important.

For some people who are naturally 'helpers' like yourself (and I like to think myself) empathy isn't a bottomless pit and I think over time stores can get low and some people probably move on at those times as well.

I think as far as roles here, some people wear lots of hats. I like to share my (limited) experience and my hopes. But there's times when I just want to have a laugh with people I've got to know. I do face to face suicide interventions as a part of my work. I don't think I could talk someone down off a bridge everyday, it would be too emotionally draining. On those other days there might be a bit of union jack southern cross on the ass streaking

You have got me thinking though. You're good like that!

Deano