Lighten up a little...

[Butterthebean 8,146]

Oh please!! She didn't say German. No need to be offended

So then I am a sleeve nazi or not? You didn't answer the question, you just acted dismissive.

[katsmeow 70]

Your referring to me. I don't care what anyone eats. That's your business. If you want to eat a doughnut then eat it.

[Mason 122]

So you're saying if I don't eat a donut or a bag of chips every now and then I will fail?

Of course I am not suggesting that.

What I am stating is that if you can't nibble on a part of a doughnut, two ounces of hamburger, or two to three ounces of Ben and Jerry's New York chocolate chunk ice cream (contingent on whatever your particular sleeve can hold), this is not a medical issue, it's a psychological one.

I am also stating that those who can eat half a doughnut or just two ounces of Ben and Jerry's without craving more should not be made to feel as if they are jeopardizing their weight loss success and health and that happens here all the time!

I am willing to bet the house that in two-year follow-up studies, the VSG patients who enjoy the greatest success are those who: 1) tracked their food intake, and; 2) did not deliberately abstain from any particular foods.

[desertmom 297]

See I dont have an issue how each individual loses weight.I always say find what works for you!

But,what I see from regain longer term,if our food habits havent changed and we can eat more,we will also eat more bad stuff.So,for myself,a little treat here and there is ok.But it is still very much the exception,not the rule.

And when my carbs creep up and I crave food all the time,dropping them right back for a few days really helps!

I am on OH as well and I really dont see the crazy talk against carbs here the way I see it there.I also see people stand up against the bullies way more often here.Maybe I am thick,I just dont see these posts,dont know how I miss them.Certainly didnt see the one about the mac and donuts.

I am curious though.What did you answer them when they asked about grazing and snacking getting the best of them?

[carly81 9]

Honestly some individuals on this forum really make me laugh! People come here to ask for advice or to just get things off of their chests we are all different I understand if someone wants advice you have to give your honest opinion but really does it have to be so judgemental?!?!

I'm nearly 3months out and down nearly 4st and for 90 per cent of the time am very good with my food choices but if I do have something that isn't very nutritionally balanced then I eat it without a guilty conscience we are only human after all and it happens :-)

[Fiddleman 4,376]

The best thing for me to do is never eat a burger or a donut again. Otherwise I just want more. The sugar affects my insulin in such a way as to increase my cravings to uncontrollable levels. Not to mention that I feel better putting healthy food in my body. Does that make me a sleeve nazi' date=' cause that term is getting thrown around a lot and it's kind of offensive to someone like me whose great grandparents immigrated here from Germany.[/quote']

My relationship with certain food was not healthy pre-sleeve. it is as simple as that. i have come to terms with it long ago when i made the decision to get WLS. WLS has given me the time to reevaluate the relations with food by gradually introducing it after metaphorically being reborn from surgery. My eating and drinking habits pre sleeve were self destructive. Having sleeve surgery was my way of saying to food, you will not control me any longer. I choose to live life abundantly.

Like BTB, one cookie or one donuts hole triggers the carb monster in me to not just have 1, 2 or, dare I say, 3 more; Rather, I am finishing the whole container. This need to eat and eat until carb food is completely finished is most likely rooted in deep psychological issues, as Mason suggests, which I need to understand to this day with some intensive therapy ( perhaps hypnosis). Strange part is that I have no idea why I had this addiction pre sleeve. how about some free psycho analysis, Mason? Eating so much sugar did crazy voodoo on my mood, energy and general well being.

That being said, I feel great today physically and psychologically with the low carb diet ( not as low as Atkins, but I do try and eat fairly clean to enhance my physical and mental well being). My desire for carb foods is gone and I am able to have a meaningful existence around others who are eating cake, Cookies, donuts, etc. Believe me, I am literally surrounded by this on a daily basis. I choose to eat healthy because it leads to personal well being for myself. as a consequence, I can give back to others in more meaningful relationships that are genuine. I do not know if I could handle carb foods in moderation given my past experience with them so do not even want to go there. I share my results with regards to dietary, exercise and weight loss often in order to inspire and motivate others for success. I have always been a lead by example type of person.

This may make my choices about food draconian during the weight loss phase, but I would not characterize myself as a "sleeve Nazi." I too have great grand parents who immigrated from Germany and to toss around "sleeve nazi" here and there, while I understand the intent, is a little insensitive. My diet will converge on something like the Mediterranean diet once my weight loss phase is complete, but for now, I tend to keep carb food out of my life for reasons listed above. Will this lead to my failure in two years as Mason "bets the house" on? I do not think so because my behaviors towards food, exercise and living life are drastically different from the last 20 years. Furthermore, I feel that transitioning from low carb to healthy carb (ala Mediterranean diet) will be gentle and is something I can live with.

[desertmom 297]

I really just hope that we will all stay around or come back to post our long term success with whatever plan or non plan we have been following.Maybe if more people did post about their success with carbs or without carbs that might give a better indication as to what really works.And losing this weight is the least of any of our problems,keeping it off seems to be sooo much harder.

Now,Im going to search for these bashing posts as I only ever see the complain posts about these posts and I really did think my hour on the forum every noght covered all the threats!

[Mason 122]

This need to eat and eat until carb food is completely finished is most likely rooted in deep psychological issues, as Mason suggests, which I need to understand to this day with some intensive therapy ( perhaps hypnosis). Eating so much sugar did crazy voodoo on my mood, energy and general well being.

I appreciate the enormous self-honesty reflected in your post.

If someone is aware of having unresolved psychological issues around food and finds abstinence to be a safer solution than moderation, so be it. In addition, not all psychological conflicts are resolvable. Patients with certain eating disorders that have their etiology in early childhood trauma may always be vulnerable to those disorders. I have worked with many obese women who chose to become obese and remain that way as a defense against incest for example. Even after years of therapy and considerable weight loss, there was a deliberate attempt at understating their appearance at all times.

Will this lead to my failure in two years as Mason "bets the house" on?

Please go back and take another look at what I wrote. I never stated that those who abstain from certain foods and don't track their daily food intake will necessarily fail. What I wrote is that those who track their food intake and use moderation in their food choices will have greater success over the long haul, on the average, than those who don't. That statement happens to be unequivocally true in the field of food addiction and in the weight loss industry, which is why I was able to safely bet the house on it. Smile.

In the meantime, until your psychological issues with food are resolved one day, I wish you continued success with your low-carb diet.

[Fiddleman 4,376]

I appreciate the enormous self-honesty reflected in your post.

If someone is aware of having unresolved psychological issues around food and finds abstinence to be a safer solution than moderation' date=' so be it. In addition, not all psychological conflicts are resolvable. Patients with certain eating disorders that have their etiology in early childhood trauma may always be vulnerable to those disorders. I have worked with many obese women who chose to become obese and remain that way as a defense against incest for example. Even after years of therapy and considerable weight loss, there was a deliberate attempt at understating their appearance at all times.

Please go back and take another look at what I wrote. I never stated that those who abstain from certain foods and don't track their daily food intake will necessarily fail. What I wrote is that those who track their food intake and use moderation in their food choices will have greater success over the long haul, on the average, than those who don't. That statement happens to be unequivocally true in the field of food addiction and in the weight loss industry, which is why I was able to safely bet the house on it. Smile.

In the meantime, until your psychological issues with food are resolved one day, I wish you continued success with your low-carb diet.[/quote']

Thanks Mason.

[Butterthebean 8,146]

Please go back and take another look at what I wrote. I never stated that those who abstain from certain foods and don't track their daily food intake will necessarily fail. What I wrote is that those who track their food intake and use moderation in their food choices will have greater success over the long haul' date=' on the average, than those who don't. That statement happens to be unequivocally true in the field of food addiction and in the weight loss industry, which is why I was able to safely bet the house on it. Smile.

In the meantime, until your psychological issues with food are resolved one day, I wish you continued success with your low-carb diet.[/quote']

I love how you edited your post to say something different, then claimed to have never said it. What you said was abstaining from a particular food group would lead to failure over the long haul, and you didn't qualify it with anything about food tracking so way to add that in after the fact. And while I do agree this is true for "dieters" it's been said over and over again that the sleeve is not a diet...so I don't see where diet rules apply. You encouraged another member to change his relationship with food, that's what I've done. I've realized that donuts and chips have absolutely no health benefit whatsoever, only a psychological one (which seems to be your speciality). So why not encourage people who feel the need to indulge in eating unhealthy food post sleeve to seek professional help as well? Would you encourage an alcoholic to take a drink every once in a while? I think for many here their eating problems may not have been on the same level as an alcoholic's drinking problem. But for some it most certainly was, and just like alcoholics, most are not self aware enough to know who they are. That's my concern every time I read a post that says it's okay to eat a burger or a donut...that new people are going to read that and take it to heart even though they are only 4 weeks post op. Abstaining may not be the popular choice, and it's not an easy one, but my God look at all the threads by people who aren't losing the weight they hoped they would lose but they are still eating fruit loops for Breakfast. Perhaps it's all those threads that I still see day in and day out that have molded my opinion.

[Butterthebean 8,146]

The food Nazis are coming from a place of fear and denial.

There is a rather large contingency of sleevers on these forums who have never worked on their food issues. In an attempt at defending against them' date=' that is, working around their compulsive eating, they live and preach a model of abstinence. They boast of attending a holiday party with a blender and Protein powder, one whole year after surgery, or they'll publicly scold a member who shared that they ate a real pepperoni instead of a turkey pepperoni. This position is nothing short of absurd.

.[/quote']

See, you sound like a smart person and a medical health professional, but still YOU are the purveyor of this sleeve nazi rhetoric and it's you that is being offensive. But when I call you out and challenge you to tell me if I'm a sleeve nazi or not, you shrivel up in cowardice. You and the rest of the folks who throw out offensive characterizations as a group don't have the guts to pin that label on anyone specific. You're all a bunch of cowards. It amazes me the lengths people will go to when they feel their donut is being taken away.

[Sassafras 136]

I've seen a lot of the negativity and harshness around here talked about for a while. I didn't see it at first' date=' but I see it now. Yikes!

We all have a different path and journey. What works for some may not work for others. This is a lifestyle not a diet for me. Having said that I think that means different things for different people. For me it means make good choice but also don't deprive myself. But I don't impose that on anyone. The goal is to be able to live a normal life like a normal person with healthy eating habits who can live in society.

That means eating Protein like chicken, sea food, steak...and veggies and salads most of the time. I don't totally ignoring a food group like carbs. Not all carbs are bad and normal healthy people don't totally ex them out of their diet. I stick with good carbs most of the time, and If I want some roasted red potatoes well damn it I'm going to make them! That means every now and then things like fast food and desert are going to be eaten by me. I had cake on my birthday, I ate a few pork dumplings from a thia restaurant. I had a few bites of a biscuit. And you know what? I don't feel bad for these choices. Because for ME this worked. Moderation. Something I didn't know before.

Pre op I didn't have healthy eating habits. I could never just have ONE cookie. If I had fast food I had the large meal with the fries. One bite didn't exist in my vocabulary. I didn't know how to leave food on my plate. Now I feel I've found a balance.

I DO however get this doesn't work for everyone. People have food addictions. Certain foods can trigger binge eating- even with a sleeve. Some choose to stay as far away from these foods as they can never to include them in their diet again. Which is commendable and I applaud you all for it because I don't think I have the power to say 'never again'. Thats amazing and truly commendable!

I don't think the problem people have on here is with anyone choosing to not participate in eating these foods. As I've said different journey for all of us. The problem is the way people who DO eat them and admit to it are treated and called out. No one should be belittled, scolded or called a name for their choices on either end. This is directed at no one in particular, but I've seen it in several threads.

No one should be afraid to ask a question or share their input in fear of being called a name or made to feel inferior. If someone is posting things like 'I'm eating cake and Cookies, why am I not losing weight?' Well yes I can see how that would warrant comment. But even then there is no need for snark, rudeness or name calling. People, especially new people see this and become afraid to say anything for fear of getting their head bitten off.

This was longer then I meant it to be, but the point is that this is a different journey for everyone. Some are more strict, some more liberal. But everyone deserves respect and to allow their experiences to be heard. This goes for both sides- left and right wing that's my two cents (this was probably more like a quarter though then 2 two cants though lol)[/quote']

I love your post! So true!! You hit the nail on the head

[NurseGrace 509]

Sometimes I feel like sites like these should be split down the middle: "sleeve nazis" and "free spirits" or something like that because honestly, my feeling is that if you are going to pay for and go through the process of approval and the TRAUMA of surgery you darn well better be prepared to follow orders EXACTLY for at LEAST 18 months.

That being said, I know that not everyone feels that way so I try not to be real hard on people.

I take this very seriously, in part because I was one who had a lapband and didn't do well in part because I thought "a little of this and a little of that" was ok, until a little turned into a little more, and a little more turned into a moderate serving, and a moderate serving turned into WHAT!?? BAM overeating all over again.

EDIT: I submitted this comment before I realized people were offended by the term "nazi" I think its fair to say that some of us are more strict than others. Sorry ButterTheBean, I would probably include you in my strict group, but forgive me for being elitist for one moment, but I feel that being strict is better than the alternative so I do not mean it in a disparaging way, I was just late to the party.

[Catracks 865]

Hmmmm, i choose not to eat fast food or packaged, extensively processed foods like frozen or boxed meals/foods because I don't like what's in them.

I simply will not go to McDonald's, etc. because I can make a more wholesome and better tasting hamburger at home. Last night I made my own chili dog with a Hebrew National 45 calorie dog topped with chili and cheese. I fared better than Der Wienerschnitzel.

I have a doughnut shop down the road here that makes doughnuts that would tempt a monk. It's called Donut Man and those of you who watch Huell Howser in California know what I'm talking about. For most things I am easy going, but there are certain things i just do not eat anymore and do my best to remove them from my sphere of consciousness. Potato chips are one of those things.

Yeah, I guess it's a weakness or psychological defect (whatever), but this is my way of dealing with it.

I could probably eat most of a slice of Knott's berry Farm boysenberry pie. One small slice has 510 calories. What I do is convince myself that I should have some berries with a dab of whipped cream instead so I can eat for the rest of the day.

I don't eat white rice, white Pasta or white bread anymore. It is nutritionally devoid and a waste of time to me.

I really do not see where abstaining is a problem.Sure I might eat something for a special occasion, but that's few and far between and it's going to be something good i,e,, not fast food.< /p>

[Butterthebean 8,146]

.

I don't eat white rice' date=' white Pasta or white bread anymore. It is nutritionally devoid and a waste of time to me.

.[/quote']

Oooooooo....forget it. Just give up because you're going to fail.

Perhaps the thing to take away from this is that you can abstain from things that you formerly enjoyed if you believe that these things are destructive to your happiness and your goals. I've been in a bad relationship or 2 in my life. When I finally broke free of those relationships I never went back for any post break up sex because there were better options ahead of me. I know some people do go back for post break up sex, but I doubt anyone thought that if they abstained from sex with a former partner they would fail at sex forever.