Lighten up a little...

[Dianne38 81]

I posted that I ate half a Big Mac and still eat a crispy creme donut if I crave one. Several people gave their opinions.and how I didnt care about my health.....but several more sent me private messages, 11 different people to be exact, that wanted some advice because they had kids and the grazing and snacking was getting the best of them, but were scared to ask for it on this forum because of the tongue lashing some people give when your veer from the HEALTHY path. Everyone is not the same, our needs, wants and lifestyles are different. There are people reading the forum who are intimidated by your perfection....give us who arent as perfect a break.

[mzrich 29]

I agree with u. Even if I thought like a "perfectionist" I would not belittle you for telling the truth. Its all as bout moderation. As long as you are keeping your weight off and happy dont worry about the flamers. Your honest and everyone is different. Noone is perfect, people seem to forget that.

[clk 3,519]

There is no one-size-fits-all approach to life after the sleeve, much the way the one-size-fits-all approach to dieting doesn't work. If it did, we'd all pay our Weight Watchers dues, avoid comorbidities and enjoy life as skinny people after successfully completing our first diet.

For people without comorbids, it's usually NOT a health-related choice to have the sleeve. If you don't have high cholesterol or diabetes or high blood pressure, you're not making the choice to do this for the same reason as someone who does.

I really dislike the "food Nazi" attitude. It's one thing to criticize someone that jumps on a board and complains about slow loss, stalls or discomfort after they confide that they're eating off their doctor's nutritional guidelines or that they're doing binges and grazing.

It's another thing entirely to assume an all-or-nothing approach. For some people, that works. For the vast majority of us that have dieted most of our lives, it doesn't work. It didn't work before and it won't work this time, either.

You will see me say this over and over again. The sleeve is NOT A DIET. It's not. If you treat it like one, odds are good that you'll experience the same success you achieved on all those diets you did before you finally opted to have surgery.

The sleeve is a tool. Yes, we should make good quality food choices 90% of the time. If we can do that, why would we restrict ourselves with the other 10% of our choices?

I did not remove most of an organ so I could stay on Atkins for the rest of my life, sorry. It's easy to be a carb Nazi in the first four or five months post op. But at some point, sanity has to set in and you have to learn to eat normally.

This is not about getting to a set weight on the scale. That is the easy part, believe it or not. The challenge is STAYING THERE. It's being out there, post op and able to eat a larger portion of a larger variety of foods and being able to eat without doing it emotionally, grazing or binge eating. Maintenance is infinitely harder than the loss phase, and maintenance lasts forever.

So learning how to eat in moderation, how to deal with the social customs and rituals we've built around food and doing it all without feeling deprived and resentful is a huge part of this journey.

If you lose 100 pounds by eating 400 calories and 30 carbs a day, congrats. Your loss is no less a success. But tell me how you're going to stay there for the next thirty years without regaining if all you learned on your journey is how to diet more effectively?

Good luck. It's important that we realize that VST is a place for us to share a wide range of experiences and feelings about this surgery and life afterward. Attacking someone for choosing a different way to live, when that person has shown success and isn't complaining, is not okay.

~Cheri

[Fallenangel2904 494]

I've seen a lot of the negativity and harshness around here talked about for a while. I didn't see it at first, but I see it now. Yikes!

We all have a different path and journey. What works for some may not work for others. This is a lifestyle not a diet for me. Having said that I think that means different things for different people. For me it means make good choice but also don't deprive myself. But I don't impose that on anyone. The goal is to be able to live a normal life like a normal person with healthy eating habits who can live in society.

That means eating Protein like chicken, sea food, steak...and veggies and salads most of the time. I don't totally ignoring a food group like carbs. Not all carbs are bad and normal healthy people don't totally ex them out of their diet. I stick with good carbs most of the time, and If I want some roasted red potatoes well damn it I'm going to make them! That means every now and then things like fast food and desert are going to be eaten by me. I had cake on my birthday, I ate a few pork dumplings from a thia restaurant. I had a few bites of a biscuit. And you know what? I don't feel bad for these choices. Because for ME this worked. Moderation. Something I didn't know before.

Pre op I didn't have healthy eating habits. I could never just have ONE cookie. If I had fast food I had the large meal with the fries. One bite didn't exist in my vocabulary. I didn't know how to leave food on my plate. Now I feel I've found a balance.

I DO however get this doesn't work for everyone. People have food addictions. Certain foods can trigger binge eating- even with a sleeve. Some choose to stay as far away from these foods as they can never to include them in their diet again. Which is commendable and I applaud you all for it because I don't think I have the power to say 'never again'. Thats amazing and truly commendable!

I don't think the problem people have on here is with anyone choosing to not participate in eating these foods. As I've said different journey for all of us. The problem is the way people who DO eat them and admit to it are treated and called out. No one should be belittled, scolded or called a name for their choices on either end. This is directed at no one in particular, but I've seen it in several threads.

No one should be afraid to ask a question or share their input in fear of being called a name or made to feel inferior. If someone is posting things like 'I'm eating cake and Cookies, why am I not losing weight?' Well yes I can see how that would warrant comment. But even then there is no need for snark, rudeness or name calling. People, especially new people see this and become afraid to say anything for fear of getting their head bitten off.

This was longer then I meant it to be, but the point is that this is a different journey for everyone. Some are more strict, some more liberal. But everyone deserves respect and to allow their experiences to be heard. This goes for both sides- left and right wing that's my two cents (this was probably more like a quarter though then 2 two cants though lol)

[Fallenangel2904 494]

I love yours posts Cheri! Excellent post here! Had i known you were postings as I was typing my reply I would have wrote a lot less haha

[ozeedonkee 145]

I know from past experience, if I deny myself, I will binge big time and go completely off the rails. I don't view the sleeve as a diet, but I make conscious decisions about what goes into my mouth.....and for the first time in my life I'm happy to do that.

If someone chooses to eat foods which I would choose not to eat - that's not my business. If someone asks for thoughts or advice I will say if I think its a good idea (or not), but I won't berate them. I'm not perfect.

[Mason 122]

There is no one-size-fits-all approach to life after the sleeve, much the way the one-size-fits-all approach to dieting doesn't work. If it did, we'd all pay our Weight Watchers dues, avoid comorbidities and enjoy life as skinny people after successfully completing our first diet.

I really dislike the "food Nazi" attitude.

For starters, Cheri, your posts are always so insightful, temperate, and helpful, you should really be paid to contribute to these forums.

The food Nazis are coming from a place of fear and denial.

There is a rather large contingency of sleevers on these forums who have never worked on their food issues. In an attempt at defending against them, that is, working around their compulsive eating, they live and preach a model of abstinence. They boast of attending a holiday party with a blender and Protein powder, one whole year after surgery, or they'll publicly scold a member who shared that they ate a real pepperoni instead of a turkey pepperoni. This position is nothing short of absurd.

Of course you can eat a Big Mac, Chili's baby back ribs, or a Dunkin' Donuts Bavarian creme doughnut after surgery... albeit not very much of them, just as long as you track or monitor your daily caloric intake and meet your Protein requirements.

If you cannot successfully eat in moderation after surgery, that is, if you cannot eat 3oz of Ben and Jerry's ice cream without eating 16, if you cannot eat one cookie without finishing the entire bag, then substituting the foods that you crave with low-fat alternatives is not the answer... not over the long haul. If you cannot eat in moderation after having had 75 to 80 percent of your stomach removed, then you have serious psychological problems with food and, trust me on this, low-fat yogurt and carrot sticks are not the answer.

The answer is to get yourself into a good psychotherapy as soon as possible so that you can start redefining your relationship with food. And, in the interim, stop bullying other members who do not share your need to abstain from the foods they enjoy.

The key to good health and a good life is moderation, not abstinence.

[selbradey 321]

Love your posts cheri! Very realistic. As someone in intense therapy for binge eating disorder, and only referring to my sleeve as a tool, i am changing my relationship with food . I used to lie to myself, judge others and starve most of the day, eating only high calorie crap once a day and justifying it (in my head) through this journey the sleeve has taught me to eat every few hours, to listen to my bodys signals of fullness, to noirish myself with higher quality foods, and if i feel like having a dessert or something decadent, to have a small taste or make my own low fat sugar free version of it. I was telling my therapist yesterday that i now feel more empathetic towards people who struggle with weight. It is not easy no matter what road we take. And, for those that are going to be judgemental, like cheri said, they are just deep seated in denial and their own fears.

I say, enjoy the krispy kreme dear. Moderation and balance is acheivable, creating new habits is possible. And screw judgemental people, i cant stand em lol.

[lose2win 32]

I posted that I ate half a Big Mac and still eat a crispy creme donut if I crave one. Several people gave their opinions.and how I didnt care about my health.....but several more sent me private messages' date=' 11 different people to be exact, that wanted some advice because they had kids and the grazing and snacking was getting the best of them, but were scard to ask for it on this forum because of the tongue lashing some people give when your veer from the HEALTHY path. Everyone is not the same, our needs, wants and lifestyles are different. There are people reading the forum who are intimidated by your perfection....give us who arent as perfect a break.[/quote']

We are all in this together please don't let anyone else stop u from talking about your struggles I respect your strength ....

Sent from my iPhone 5 using VST

[suzthebrit 146]

You'll notice that not one of those people have posted on this thread! I can't stand the holier than thou attitudes some of these people have. If you're not a MEDICAL DOCTOR, not just someone who works in the medical field (which I have seen mentioned many a time and could mean they are a medical biller or secretary!) then I take what they say with a grain of salt. It's sad that people are scared to post their tru and honest feelings because of some righteous bullies!

[Butterthebean 8,146]

The best thing for me to do is never eat a burger or a donut again. Otherwise I just want more. The sugar affects my insulin in such a way as to increase my cravings to uncontrollable levels. Not to mention that I feel better putting healthy food in my body. Does that make me a sleeve nazi, cause that term is getting thrown around a lot and it's kind of offensive to someone like me whose great grandparents immigrated here from Germany.

[clk 3,519]

The best thing for me to do is never eat a burger or a donut again. Otherwise I just want more. The sugar affects my insulin in such a way as to increase my cravings to uncontrollable levels. Not to mention that I feel better putting healthy food in my body. Does that make me a sleeve nazi, cause that term is getting thrown around a lot and it's kind of offensive to someone like me whose great grandparents immigrated here from Germany.

I didn't mean to offend you. My grandparents emigrated from Ukraine on one side and Poland on the other. I am Jewish and so is my husband.

And I certainly don't mean to be a hypocrite, either. I didn't state it here, but I have said it elsewhere: everyone is different and what/how each person can eat is very individual.

So I'm not saying that because you choose not to make less quality food choices on occasion that you're somehow wrong. I think the all-or-nothing approach from anyone is dangerous, but what bothers me is when people come here and criticize the boards at large for not eating "perfectly."

For me, a huge reason I quit diets in the past was that inability to incorporate moderation and the feeling that if I didn't do it exactly right it meant immediate failure. I think a lot of people share similar feelings.

I do not for one minute doubt that for a lot of people there are trigger foods. It's been proven that certain food combinations affect us much like a drug. People with problems consuming white flour and white sugar (two of the foods I see people post about most often) in moderation should most definitely stay away.

I do not eat at McD's. I've eaten one Krispy Kreme doughnut (though I consumed a couple homemade sufganiyot this past December) in three years. I don't think it's a great food choice. I think there are better choices out there.

But I do not think it's my place to just attack someone and ridicule them because they choose to do it. This wasn't a post where the OP was venting about a stall or discomfort and then talked about eating junk. This is a lady that's doing well and seems happy. If she asked "Why can't I lose weight" and then told me about McD's and doughnut runs, I'd be far more critical. I don't like the idea that it has to be one specific way, even if I don't make the same choices for myself.

That's all I was saying. I think that it's intimidating for a lot of folks to see this expectation of perfection. I think it makes people scared to post when they are having an issue, too. Because the first thing everyone volunteers as advice when someone isn't losing quickly is to cut carbs/calories. And if someone is genuinely having a problem with grazing or binge behavior, I want them to be able to admit it and get it off their chest so they can deal with it and solve it. Not feel like they'll be attacked for not caring about their health because they don't always make great choices.

I really hope you'll forgive me for offending you. I've enjoyed your posts in the past and think you have a lot of valuable information and advice to offer here. I tend to type very long messages every time and in this case, did not include a disclaimer about everyone's body and personal food demons being different.

~Cheri

[Mason 122]

The best thing for me to do is never eat a burger or a donut again. Otherwise I just want more. The sugar affects my insulin in such a way as to increase my cravings to uncontrollable levels.

Obviously, patients should not violate dietary restrictions imposed by hypo- or hyperglycemia. However, barring these medical conditions (most of which go into remission after weight loss), there is absolutely no empirical evidence to support the effectiveness of abstinence from certain foods in weight loss and weight loss maintenance: NONE.

Barring the aforementioned medical conditions, rigid abstinence from certain foods, such as a hamburger or piece of cake, is a psychological issue, not a medical one. I can write this with confidence as a professor of psychology who worked in the field of addictionology for over 15 years.

The problem with abstinence is that it leads to the well-documented abstinence violation effect: I must abstain from doughnuts. If I break down and have just one, then I must have 100. This effect is psychological, not medical. There is no more evidence to suggest that compulsive eating is a physiological addiction than alcohol dependency is a disease. Porting over the AA philosophy of disease and allergy to overeating is a psychological travesty.

I challenge anyone who disagrees with this to present empirical evidence to the contrary that has been published in a referred professional journal. You won't find any.

Granted, abstinence may be temporarily working for someone (although it won't over the long haul). However, this does not mean that those wedded to the abstinence model should try to shame those who are trying to learn how to eat in moderation. The underlying premise of abstinence is unfounded, shaming and chastising are never helpful, and that kind of post is entirely self-congratulatory.

If I were unable to eat, for example, one hamburger without obsessively craving more and more of them, I'd see a cognitive-behavioral therapist who specializes in eating disorders. I would not be attempting to shame those who are able to successfully eat just one in an attempt at denying and avoiding my own highly conflicted relationship with food.

Doing so may not rise to the definition of Nazism or fascism, but maybe we can all agree that it's not very nice.

[katsmeow 70]

Oh please!! She didn't say German. No need to be offended

[Butterthebean 8,146]

.

Granted' date=' abstinence may be temporarily working for someone (although it won't over the long haul). .[/quote']

So you're saying if I don't eat a donut or a bag of chips every now and then I will fail? I keep hearing that but find it hard to believe since every time I back slide it's because I do eat chips or a donut.