Yeah, that's right...

[leatha_g 4]

Tom wrote:

Missy4gorden started this thread because there is a thread (a few actually) that the Democrats and more liberal members of LBT have taken over as far as number of posts and members posting are concerned, but none of the Republicans or conservatives who posted in those threads have been belittled in those threads.

Um, I beg to differ... but, I have other things I need to do rather than to spew forth all the reasons. Anyone with the ability to read can see 'belittling' all over that thread, including a new low of accusing people of taking hallucinogens.. and all along I've held my tongue about the attributes of lithium... to think... :rolleyes

[Carlene 12]

Um, I beg to differ... but, I have other things I need to do rather than to spew forth all the reasons. Anyone with the ability to read can see 'belittling' all over that thread, including a new low of accusing people of taking hallucinogens.. and all along I've held my tongue about the attributes of lithium... to think... :rolleyes

Oh, please....is that the best you can come up with. I posted "What are you smoking?" to Jodi (the Poli Sci major who declares that politics are her passion) after she said that all political parties were basically the same, just the candidates were different. Even SHE knew it was a joke.

This was her response.

Ive had a horrible day and that made me giggle a little....

Sorry to butt back into your thread, Missy. I promised not to get into red/blue debate here but Leatha's post was a personal attack, and an unwarranted one, at that.

[missy4gordon 0]

If it is required for members of LBT to run away to this thread for safety, then we have hit a new low. Many members of LBT celebrated in a thread a month or so ago, because even though there was disagreement about politics and religion, no one lost civility.

I didn't start this thread because civility was lost in the other thread, in fact quite the contrary, it has remained surprisingly civil since politics usually bring controversy. Oh, and I don't appreciate your condescending tone, I didn't 'run away' I created this thread for a few different reasons.

Missy4gorden started this thread because there is a thread (a few actually) that the Democrats and more liberal members of LBT have taken over as far as number of posts and members posting are concerned, but none of the Republicans or conservatives who posted in those threads have been belittled in those threads.

If you like BuSh or BuSh's ideas, or you like the way the country is heading, come over and state your case. You will not be insulted or attacked.

I definately disagree with this, we would have to (and did have to) DEFEND our views up and down and I wanted a place where I could just announce mine w/out having to defend or get called to the carpet with "they did this they did that, Iraq was a mistake, etc....." What's wrong with wanting to speak to people who feel the same as you? I can't expect go into a I Hate Bush thread and find people that LIKE him and turn it upside down trying to defend him.

I am inviting any and all members to feel free to state your opinions in the other political and controversial threads in the Raves, Rants, etc and the Lounge. Separate is not equal. I didn't believe in racial segregation and I don't believe in political segregation.

Thanks for the invitation, but I am not trying to segregate anybody, GEEZ, can't we all just get along? I will say again, I just wanted a place to come to express the opposite w/out hijacking an I hate bush thread. Thanks, and please come again!!

:thankyou:

[Sunta 5]

All I can say is that if threads about gay marriage and hating Bush didn't turn to fisticuffs, I'm sure this one won't even if there is debate.

It does seem like a typical Republican stance though to say "let's not debate". Democrats are historically the ones who want debate, discourse, serious thought about issues, and lively discussion.

[missy4gordon 0]

Jack, between you and Leatha, I just revel in reading your posts. They are insightful and respectful and keep me wanting more.

[Carlene 12]

I am inviting any and all members to feel free to state your opinions in the other political and controversial threads in the Raves, Rants, etc and the Lounge. Separate is not equal. I didn't believe in racial segregation and I don't believe in political segregation.

TOM...

Politically I agree with you, but (and I say this with all due respect) you need to leave these people alone. Unless they post a personal attack on you, you should be a gentleman and let them have their rally. Your repeated intrusion into this thread makes your motives appear to be suspect - as in baiting political argument. It also makes you look like an over-bearing, argumentative, know-it-all. I'm sure that's not your intention, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions, as my mother used to say.

Please don't take offense. This is just heartfelt advice from one big-mouth, opinionated Democrat to another.

[mousecrazy 2]

Just popping in to say "Tomorrow is another day!" I am a supporter of President Bush, I agree with most everything in Jack's post, and am very interested to see the governance of the Democrat-dominated Congress. I realize there is not a huge margin, so things will be difficult, and I am worried about taxes going up, supoenas being issued (more tax money spent on the past) and the economy suffering for all of the above. I am worried that the Democrats do not really believe there is a war that must be won against the jihadists, or that they even exist.

In two years, another election will be held, and aren't we all thankful we live in a country where people are free to vote or not vote, and we DON'T live in one of those fake democracies where you HAVE to vote in order to get benefits?

[babsintx3 0]

Hi,

I am a Bush supporter. I voted for him and I support all his decisions so far. I hate the fact that our troops are dying daily, but I understand the need to keep them in Iraq.

The American public is wishy washy and ornery. It seems that the uneducated think that the economy, gas prices and the decrease of jobs in the manufacturing and software sector to LCC (low cost countries) are the fault of Bush. When the gas prices go down and economy shows an improvement, ratings go up for him.

Ditto on everything Jack said so eloquently.

babs in TX

334/190 ish

[Sunta 5]

It seems that the uneducated think that the economy, gas prices and the decrease of jobs in the manufacturing and software sector to LCC (low cost countries) are the fault of Bush.

Uh... who's fault is it, then?

It seems to me that the uneducated think that Bush's adoration of big business, big oil, and corporate greed are unrelated to gas prices and the economy.

[babsintx3 0]

Hi Sunta,

The economy runs in cycles of 8-10 years or more. What a President does in his administration has little to do with what happens to the economy on a day to day basis. Clinton had little to do with the robust economy of the 1990's and the subsequent demise of telecom and manufacturing practices in the US.

Suppy and demand and geography dictate barrel prices. Move to Europe and see how happy you are paying $2.00 Euros a liter for gas and see if the Europeans are blaming Bush for high gas prices. They understand supply and demand, something the Americans generally speaking don't get. I lived and worked in Europe, Africa and the Middle East for most of my adult life and long before the Bush administration and European opinion of Americans has never been that great regardless of what President we have in office.

As far as big business and taxes. Just know that the top 2% of income earners pay the largest portion of tax and should receive the most back. I am in the top 2% (which equates to an income of $100K plus a year or more) and I can assure you my ass is kicked at tax time every year. I have a family to feed and it seems like I am taxed for everything. Stupid me just found out that I have to pay Business Personal Property Tax, Hell, I didnt even know what that was until an assessor came to my "leased" office the other day and started to add up the contents. I dont consider myself big business and I am just a small business owner trying to make a living.

I am a recruiter that specializes in lean manufactuing and I can assure you the problems started in the manufacturing sector, the economy was starting to tank long before the Bush administration. The smartest thing I heard on TV this week:

"You can't prevent what you can't predict" . I think it was Desperate Housewives" last weeks episode.....

Babs in TX

Babs in TX

[Wheetsin 714]

Move to Europe and see how happy you are paying $2.00 Euros a liter for gas and see if the Europeans are blaming Bush for high gas prices.

When I lived in Europe only the base gas prices were driven by supply and demand, and that only represented about 15% - 20% of what you were paying at the pump. Most European countries have inflated carbon & environmental taxes tacked onto the pump prices... and in many cases you'll find oil freedom initiatives behind the taxes. Not to mention the mid and NE countries that offset low income tax rates with high fuel consumer taxes, and fund public welfare benefits with high sales taxes that also impact pump prices.

The fluctuation in the base gas price - actually a lot of Europeans I know do believe Bush is a factor, but not the only factor. They can't overlook the EU's role.

I'm not saying Bush is to blame, I'm not saying he isn't. I'm just saying there's a lot more to factor into European gas prices than supply and demand. Also saying that yes, Bush is getting some of the blame outside of our borders.

Cheers!

[Sunta 5]

The economy runs in cycles of 8-10 years or more. What a President does in his administration has little to do with what happens to the economy on a day to day basis.

I've heard this rationale before, but I think it's a really large generalization designed to take the blame off of the current president. I can find lots of economist's articles on the Bush economy and how it affects jobs, the general day-to-day economy, etc.

Regarding gas prices, I don't believe for an instant that basic supply and demand has a thing to do with the current rip-off at the pumps. I think the cause is not the supply, but the extreme greed of oil companies.

[Wheetsin 714]

but the extreme greed of oil companies.

Insert a little gripe...

Gas companies pay whatever their costs are when the fuel is delivered into the reservoires. They don't pay a fluctuating rate. Say the reservoires hold enough gas for a week. On monday they pay $1/gallon for the gas, and it sells for $2. Then on Tuesday prices increase to $3. They're still selling their $1 gas, only now they're getting $3 for it. And by Thursday gas is up to $4. They're now selling the gas they paid $1 for, for $4. That's something that has always irritated the crap out of me. Tack your profit onto the gas, and sell it at that price until it's gone. If you have to pay more to fill up your reservoires next time, OK, charge me more. But don't just charge me more and more for the gas you paid $1 for.

[missy4gordon 0]

Insert a little gripe...

Gas companies pay whatever their costs are when the fuel is delivered into the reservoires. They don't pay a fluctuating rate. Say the reservoires hold enough gas for a week. On monday they pay $1/gallon for the gas, and it sells for $2. Then on Tuesday prices increase to $3. They're still selling their $1 gas, only now they're getting $3 for it. And by Thursday gas is up to $4. They're now selling the gas they paid $1 for, for $4. That's something that has always irritated the crap out of me. Tack your profit onto the gas, and sell it at that price until it's gone. If you have to pay more to fill up your reservoires next time, OK, charge me more. But don't just charge me more and more for the gas you paid $1 for.

This pisses me off too. The gas stations say they don't make any money on the gas anymore, bull crap.

Well, I am glad that Rumsfeld is gone, this is a giant step in the right direction, I think. I sincerely hope that the Democrats and Bush can really work together on the issues, and produce results, progress. We need some unity up on Capital Hill.

[sweethot143 2]

I'm with you on this.