George Bush: Worst American president in history

[green 6]

Both laurend and Poodles raise interesting points in their posts. Rationalisation that hinges upon emotional thinking which is triggered by such buzz words as democracy, freedom and christianity has nothing to do with logic nor with the actual facts, and everything to do with passion. It is unexamined thought. It is thought that is animated by sound bites, spin, and the same kind of emotion that animates those whacky Muslims whom we have seen burning American and Danish flags and, indeed, by those crazy Nazi Germans who allowed themselves to be swept away by a really good theatrical show and who were, after the war was over, really ashamed of their behaviour.

I suspect that there are many Americans who are too patriotic to allow themselves to acknowledge the complexities and the moral ambiguities of, well, America's behaviour on the international stage. I suspect that it is these people who indulge in passionate and unexamined thought and who respond to an analysis of the war in Iraq with brute emotion.

Poodles also introduces an interesting point. Since the States has dropped the draft the kids who join the forces are the kids from the underclasses. They come from the lower middle class and from the working or 'honest' poor. They are more likely to be kids from those places which I have heard cruelly referred to as the flyover states. In other words these kids are probably not rich, hip, well-educated, coastal kids. They have joined the military because they want experience, an education, a career. The question as to who goes over to Iraq is to some extent a class issue. Rich kids will never see Iraq.

[j_war06 0]

green this is an interesting article

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda06-09.cfm

[BJean 16]

Jodie: I hope you place that piece of propaganda in the same file as the presidential IQ file posted here earlier.

[BJean 16]

laurend, you did a great job in your posts. I appreciate what you said, very much.

Poodles: I appreciate you too. Your posts are more passionate and entertaining. But valuable.

Green: you always blow me away.

Gang, did you all watch the 60 Minutes interview with Dubya tonight?

[j_war06 0]

Jodie: I hope you place that piece of propaganda in the same file as the presidential IQ file posted here earlier.

Um....atleast i had an article period....to back up my thoughts...yeah. AND btw, I recently graduate HS, AND i go to a college that is right next to a naval base and has the ROTC on campus.....And MANY of them came from upper-middle to well-off families.....NOT ALL no, Most likely not the majority.........however I only remember 1 poor kid going into the services that I went to HS with.....He was the only one looking to actually better his life......the other kids that I went to school with that were lower class barely graduated (if they did at all) and now they sit around in that small old town dealing and doing drugs....cooking meth, growing marijuana......MAYBE work at McDonalds or a convenient store (night shift)...............thats all they do, and they arent even qualified to do that......THAT ISNT TO SAY however that ALL poorer class kids are like that by any means, ONE SHOULD NOT stereotype in that manner. Yes some stereotypes do exist, but many of the kids i know in the services come from middle class and up families.............thank you

Oh and Im sorry that you take it that I know everything.....beacause I dont, if I did I wouldnt have needed you all's support going through this whole banding thing, I would have just dealt with it on my own, because I would have automatically known the answers to every problem that existed.....So please stop thinking that, because all you are doing is stereotyping me into that catagory, and if I dont start getting a little recognition for anything that I might contribute rather than a smartass retort, I will just not deal with it anymore.......I am not putting up with this pettiness any longer..........You dont even try to see my side, all I do is offer different ideas, which you do also, but I try not to argue those ideas. I just accept them, add my own, and when mine is attacked, i attack back...........so SORRY, I will probably be leaving LBT soon anyways, I dont use it for anything but to argue and I cant handle that in my life right now.....I have more going on that sitting here arguing with a bunch of older people that discredit me for my age, however it does help pass my boredom, but so does MySpace........therefore I will probably resign my membership for a while in about a week or so

AND THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION IS VERY REAL! LOOK IT UP ONLINE, GOTO WIKIPEDIA.....THEY ARE IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE WALL STREET JOURNAL!

[anonemouse 1]

The Heritage Foundation is very real, but it is also very, very biased.

Jodie, most of the ROTC students are going to be upper-middle class, but ROTC students are a small fraction of people entering the military. One, most people entering the military are enlisting. ROTC students are training to be officers, not enlisted personnel.

What BJean was saying was that not all articles are created equal. You need to look at the intent behind the article, the organization that printed the article, and person that wrote the article.

I just glanced at your article, and one thing I noticed is that it doesn't talk about the military personnel themselves. It talks about "areas," as if a poor person can't live in a rich "area." Believe me, most rich kids would not enlist in the military. They would do what they do at your university and join the ROTC, or they would try to get into the military universities.

[j_war06 0]

all articles have some sort of a bias

[anonemouse 1]

That's definitely true. But some are more biased than others.

[Betsyjane 2]

I have always found the Heritage Foundation articles to be interesting. Very right wing point of view, well articulated. I just read their article on Martin Luther King promoting the ideals of conservatives. I'll bet he's rolling in his grave.

I think it would make an interesting research study for Poly Sci class to study a town where all but one impoverished student turned to drug dealing. What are the odds?

I don't think you're a know-it-all, but when you again start by saying at least you had an article to back you up, you give that impression. I think people will react to the put down more than to your point of view.

As to leaving the LB website because you find yourself arguing all the time, please rethink that, Jodie. You might be throwing out the baby with the bathwater. You might want to think about sticking with the areas of the website that have to do with support for your courage in making a life changing decision to be banded. You can always stay out of the rants and raves section and still get your support. It's a major life improvement that you're making and you deserve both support and cheers.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

green this is an interesting article

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda06-09.cfm

From The Heritage Foundation's Home Page:

Our Mission

Founded in 1973, The Heritage Foundation is a research and educational institute - a think tank - whose mission is to formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense.

TOM: Why didn't you just give us a link to the Republican National Committee?

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCkYfYa8ePI]And we wonder how BuSh became President.[/ame]

[GeezerSue 7]

Um....atleast i had an article period....to back up my thoughts...yeah. ....

AND THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION IS VERY REAL! LOOK IT UP ONLINE, GOTO WIKIPEDIA.....THEY ARE IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE WALL STREET JOURNAL!

Using the Heritage Foundation as a source of information on political issues is like using one of these as a source information about racial equality:

* Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging

* American Front

* American Nazi Party

* Aryan Brotherhood

* Aryan Nations

* Australia First

* Blood and Honour

* British National Front

* Canadian Ethnic Cleansing Team

* Canadian Heritage Alliance

* Combat 18

* Council of Conservative Citizens

* Confederate Hammer Skins

* Creativity Movement (formerly World Church of the Creator)

* Forsyth County Defense League

* Hammerskins

* Heritage Front

* Hrisi Avgi

* Ku Klux Klan

* Libertarian National Socialist Green Party* National Alliance

* National Association for the Advancement of White People

* National Socialist Movement of Denmark

* National Socialist Movement (United Kingdom)

* National Socialist Movement (United States)

* Nationalist Party of Canada

* Northern Alliance (White supremacist organization)

* Imperium Europa

* Patriotic Youth League

* Russian National Unity

* The Order

* The Posse Comitatus

* Tri-City Skins

* Vigrid

* Volksfront

* Western Canada For Us

* White Aryan Resistance

* White Citizens' Council

* White Patriot Party

The concept of propaganda outfits masquerading as legitimate organizations was best illustrated when Pat Robertson and some Middle Eastern investors were, at the same time, both trying to buy UPI (United Press International) to better control what news reached us and how "upstanding" it looked. Middle Eastern dudes won and a few years later, UPI passed to the hands of an arm of Rev. Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church.

Know thy sources.

[green 6]

Jodie, I did read over the article that you supplied and I would like to thank you. I also have some comments. I was unaware that the publisher is a right-wing think tank. But it does seem to me that there are some statistics which are provided in this article which might be clear of bias and those would be the ones which pertain to enlistment by state and region. I also believe that their finding that more rural kids join up is correct, too. I do think that the sorting methods employed were too broad to determine the socio-economic and racial status of the new recruits. I found the article interesting.

[green 6]

Using the Heritage Foundation as a source of information on political issues is like using one of these as a source information about racial equality:

* Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging

* American Front

* American Nazi Party

* Aryan Brotherhood

* Aryan Nations

* Australia First

* Blood and Honour

* British National Front

* Canadian Ethnic Cleansing Team

* Canadian Heritage Alliance

* Combat 18

* Council of Conservative Citizens

* Confederate Hammer Skins

* Creativity Movement (formerly World Church of the Creator)

* Forsyth County Defense League

* Hammerskins

* Heritage Front

* Hrisi Avgi

* Ku Klux Klan

* Libertarian National Socialist Green Party* National Alliance

* National Association for the Advancement of White People

* National Socialist Movement of Denmark

* National Socialist Movement (United Kingdom)

* National Socialist Movement (United States)

* Nationalist Party of Canada

* Northern Alliance (White supremacist organization)

* Imperium Europa

* Patriotic Youth League

* Russian National Unity

* The Order

* The Posse Comitatus

* Tri-City Skins

* Vigrid

* Volksfront

* Western Canada For Us

* White Aryan Resistance

* White Citizens' Council

* White Patriot Party

The concept of propaganda outfits masquerading as legitimate organizations was best illustrated when Pat Robertson and some Middle Eastern investors were, at the same time, both trying to buy UPI (United Press International) to better control what news reached us and how "upstanding" it looked. Middle Eastern dudes won and a few years later, UPI passed to the hands of an arm of Rev. Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church.

Know thy sources.

Oh! This is utterly horrifying and dispicable! Many thanks for posting this.

[GeezerSue 7]

I looked at A BIT of the report and discovered that to determine economic status of enlistees, the military used the average income--from the 2000 census, back when we had more people working at real jobs and the minimum wage was what is still is but it bought more--for the zip code of the enlistee. Well, DUH....

Do we think that the military really thinks that the kids from the HIGH end of the zip code's income level enlist at the same rate as kids from the LOW end? No, the military's number crunchers just know how to skew stats as well as any other propoganda outfit. All it takes is a couple of very successful business owners in a small rural town and there goes the neighborhood!

[For non-math folks, this means that if WE moved to my husband's very small home town (population <1200), it would increase the income averages (our RETIREMENT CHECKS will be about five times the average income in that zip code) but the same poor kids with the same low incomes would be the ones enlisting. In fact, just for fun, there are only seven Latinos in that town. If we moved there and my stats were added in, the average income for Latinos in that town would triple. And we're just civil servant type folks!]

Also, most of the Heritage Foundation people have probably NOT been graced with the experience of being enlisted swine (as we were/are called) in our military. I have. While there are enlistees from all over the socioeconomic map, there is a REASON that part of basic training includes instructions on how to brush your teeth.

Some statistics classes teach even MORE political science than political science classes do.