George Bush: Worst American president in history

[green 6]

Carlene and to whom it may concern,

I think we should all stop living in the past and be very concerned about the future. Viet Nam was 35 years ago and so was some of the other past history you mentioned. I live in the present as much as I can. Doesn't it worry you guys just a little about what "they" (those people that hate us so much) will try to do to get to America? Do you ever wonder what "they" might be planning? No, seriously! Four airplanes, 3000 people dead! That was easy. Tell me you worry just a tad!

The terrorists were victorious on 9/11. That was one battle. Do you really believe that they could win the war? The United States has a population that is in excess of 200 hundred million and has state of the art weapons of mass destruction. Do you really believe that a group of Islamic terrorists can take control of the North American continent? If so, these handful of terrorists are winning the war, aren't they?

Let us be logical for a moment and total up the damages incurred on 9/11 and what America is still has with respect to manpower and war toys. Three thousand individuals and four civilian aircraft were lost that dreadful day. Wealthy America was left with over 200 million people and a complete array of state of the art weapons of mass destruction. I should point out that Israel, a country that is situated in the same geographical zone as her Islamic neighbours and enemy states is still alive and well even though this country has been under attack since 1948. Israel has not the massive power that the United States has.

And you must remember that America also had the sympathy of all the other wealthy industrialised countries after the 9/11 attack. Had this attack escalated into something resembling a war, something extremely unlikely, she would have had the military support of the industrialised world.

What do you honestly think were the chances of a successful invasion by the forces of Islam of this continent? Do you really think that you have ever been at risk of being forced to bow down and worship a foreign God? Aren't you being just a tiny bit irrational? I really am at a loss to understand this spirit of paranoia that invades so many Americans.

[green 6]

But you let a catostrophic event such as an earthquake, tsunami etc happen and who do they look to for assistance? If my children (or anyone else, for that matter) look to me to bail them out of trouble, I most certainly have the right to get into their business.

Actually, when it came to that dreadful mess that arrived post-Katrina, a mess that looked every bit as bad to the foreign press as any third world disaster, Canada and a number of other foreign countries were there offering aid to the United States both through the government and through donations to the Red Cross. Cuba offered its help but was turned down by the American government.

[Carlene 12]

What do you honestly think were the chances of a successful invasion by the forces of Islam of this continent? Do you really think that you have ever been at risk of being forced to bow down and worship a foreign God? Aren't you being just a tiny bit irrational? I really am at a loss to understand this spirit of paranoia that invades so many Americans.

You and me both, Green.

The attack on the WTC was a senseless act of cowardice. It got our attention, for sure. But it was not the precursor of a Muslim invasion. There is no unified Islamic enemy that we must be on guard against - just pockets of terrorists that will still be around after the war in Iraq is over. We could occupy Iraq until Hell freezes over and it would not effect those cells of fanatical Muslims either way.

Iran is not going to declare war against the USA. They are not crazy. Even with the help of Chavaz, they could do little damage to us. They can hurt us more by way of cutting off our supply of oil than by any military action.

[BJean 16]

Our dependence on oil does make us vulnerable in that they can unite to keep the oil in the Middle East from us. Is it worth them going to war for? Perhaps. After this Iraq fiasco, they are more motivated than ever to try to cause us pain. As a capitalistic country, dependent on oil, they know we are vulnerable. They are motivated to band together against their oppressors, and they know our weaknesses.

Green we were shaken to the core of our beings by 9/11. We seemed to believe that we could never be under attack on our soil because of our WMDs. We thought that having such a strong national defense would keep the bad guys from ever doing something so big and destructive here. Well it didn't and we're mad as hell.

I believe that Bush and company thought that a demonstration of our ability to destroy our enemies was in order after 9/11. Many people were just glad we struck back at SOMEBODY. Unfortunately the thing has come back to bite us in the butt.

Hindsight and all that. It is ugly, no matter how many people in America believe that we're fighting for freedom. We are in a bad, bad spot. Staying or coming home, it's become a no-win situation and to say that we have made even more enemies is an understatement.

I know, I know, people say that our well-intentioned capitalistic country is right no matter what. We would never take advantage of other countries with our wealth and might. Only bad people do that. We are led by Christians, not muslims, that makes us immune to being evil. Blah, blah, blah.

We give to every nation that needs something - all because we are such good, good people. And denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

[BJean 16]

Betsyjane: Do you have any idea why so many people do not believe in diplomacy and using intelligence to get people to do what we want them to? It HAS worked in the past.

Getting involved in Viet Nam should have been a lesson to us. That's why it keeps coming up. We would like to think that our leaders learned SOMETHING from it.

This administration seems to think that if we want something or even if we just don't like the way someone is running their country, we're strong enough and righteous enough to just go make them do it. If thousands of Americans have to give their lives to do it, that's just what it takes. We'll just have to sacrifice good American lives to correct the bad behavior of other countries.

Why can't we be leaders in what is right and good? Why do we have to be examples of terror ourselves and force people to do our bidding? If we don't learn from our past mistakes, we are doomed to repeat them in the future.

[mousecrazy 2]

Denial is also a refusal to acknowledge all the attacks over all the decades against all the United States' interests in all the countries and on all the different coalition assets around the world. Military assets, embassies in Tehran, Beirut, Kenya, Tanzania, Kuwait City, and Greece, the bombing of the Kohbar Towers, the 1993 WTC, the Spain trains, the subways in Japan, the subways in London, the clubs in Bali, the USS Cole, the wedding party in Kuwait (I think), kidnappings and beheadings of journalists, hijackings of aircraft, the hijacking of cruise ships, killing of diplomats in Pakistan, bombings of airports, bombing of a club in W. Berlin, kidnappings and beheadings of American contractors, Pan Am Flight 103...

and, of course, 9/11.

I did not put these in any particular order, but was just brainstorming them. I probably left some out and made some mistakes.

I guess I am just paranoid.

[mousecrazy 2]

Please, what does diplomacy look like when Iran's stated goal is the destruction of Israel (I believe it must be wiped off the face of the earth, or that was the quote I read), and world chaos so the messianic prophecy of Islam can be fulfilled? He (Ahmadinejad) is a true believer.

Please explain how diplomacy can counteract the World Tour of Let's Destory America?

[Betsyjane 2]

Also worried about Nigeria, while we're at it. They may have more power over us than anyone, oddly enough. But again...where did it begin? when we make massive dollars in the delta while the indigenous population has no clean Water and dies of cholera and every other disease we know how to prevent, eventually, somebody's gonna get, er, really mad! They are our 5th largest supplier of oil. If they are able to stop production, the price of everything here will skyrocket to almost unmanageable. then all it takes is one more source to disappear, and we will go into major recession or worse. That's a direct attack hitting us where it hurts. Changes of policy, diplomacy, a bit less greed and a bit more investment in the locals would have helped that situation...instead of waiting, calling them unreasonable,a nd going after their country to secure our interests.

[GeezerSue 7]

...

I guess I am just paranoid.

And Dubya and company have succeeded in making you so. They have succeeded far more than they--or anyone else--will ever succeed in a "war on terror." Because, as I have stated before, it can NEVER be won. Nor can anyone even come up with a plausible "winning end product" of such a conflict.

You wrote earlier "There is an effort, worldwide, to attack the US for its freedoms." That statement is 100% "party line" and 100% false.

"They"--the undefined bad-guys--do NOT hate us for our freedoms...they hate us when we butt into their lives. There are Mulsims--some of them rather extreme in their beliefs--all over this country. They aren't blowing up the 7-11's because they have dirty magazines. They aren't sacrificing warriors at the League of Credit Unions (because they don't believe in charging or paying interest.) They aren't closing down breweries or wineries or shooting women who work in "Genlemen's Clubs." They don't CARE if we go to hell. They don't care about the freedoms that will allow us to do that.

They only care that each and every Muslim has a personal responsibility to defend the faith if it is attacked. And they see it as being attacked. (Of course, there are myriad bad guys on both sides who are explointing that...but the whole "they hate us because we're free" line is just nonsense.) If you cannot understand THEIR perspective, you will never understand the problem.

America helped create a new Christian country in East Timor, taking it from the country with the largest Muslim population in the world, Indonesia. That would be the same as if Iran hepled carve out a little Muslim corner of the US, taking over Michigan, maybe. Would we be a little irate? You betcha.

We occupy Iraq and Afghanistan...Muslim countries. How would we feel if a Muslim power took over a couple of Christian-dominated countries? We have bases in Kuwait...for the good and for the bad as far as they are concerned.

The US back's Israel's position on the Palestinian lands. We back the "more moderate" governments of Kuwait, Saudi, the UAE, Jordan and Egypt.

We demand--for our reasons which seem good to us--that Muslims track their charitable giving programs which--even the bad ones--are based on one of the Five Pillars of Islam and the people who are NOT the bad guys find that very offensive...like we innocent travelers find physical patdown searches at the airport, only very much more so.

It's a mess, for sure. But not because a bunch of psycho Musims woke up one morning and decided that they were offended by the democratic process. That's what Dubya has been preaching and it's bullshit. They hate us because we don't respect them and continually exert our influence in their world.

If you believe that they hate us because of our freedoms, it is because you haven't put enough thought into how the typical decent Iraqi (for example) woman who would be your counterpoint in her country is experiencing this entire weenie-wagging thing.

Do not misunderstand...I am not defending the actions that EITHER side has taken. I'm just explaining that many Americans are confused about what is motivating "the other side." And until we understand what motivates an enemy, we are in trouble in any conflict.

[Carlene 12]

Denial is also a refusal to acknowledge all the attacks over all the decades against all the United States' interests in all the countries and on all the different coalition assets around the world. Military assets, embassies in Tehran, Beirut, Kenya, Tanzania, Kuwait City, and Greece, the bombing of the Kohbar Towers, the 1993 WTC, the Spain trains, the subways in Japan, the subways in London, the clubs in Bali, the USS Cole, the wedding party in Kuwait (I think), kidnappings and beheadings of journalists, hijackings of aircraft, the hijacking of cruise ships, killing of diplomats in Pakistan, bombings of airports, bombing of a club in W. Berlin, kidnappings and beheadings of American contractors, Pan Am Flight 103...

and, of course, 9/11.

I did not put these in any particular order, but was just brainstorming them. I probably left some out and made some mistakes.

I guess I am just paranoid.

And our continued presence in Iraq would prevent this type of terrorist act HOW, exactly?

The physical conquering of America is not their goal. They know that is impossible. They are happy to kill as many of us (Infidels) as possible. They believe they will be rewarded in heaven for that.

All extremist Muslims believe alike, but they have too many cultural differences to band together against us or anyone else. All of the attacks you mentioned may very well have been carried out by Muslim terrorists, but not the SAME Muslim terrorists - not even the same group of terrorists. The one thing we had in common with Saddam Hussein was that we both hated Osama bin Laden.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Denial is also a refusal to acknowledge all the attacks over all the decades against all the United States' interests in all the countries and on all the different coalition assets around the world. Military assets, embassies in Tehran, Beirut, Kenya, Tanzania, Kuwait City, and Greece, the bombing of the Kohbar Towers, the 1993 WTC, the Spain trains, the subways in Japan, the subways in London, the clubs in Bali, the USS Cole, the wedding party in Kuwait (I think), kidnappings and beheadings of journalists, hijackings of aircraft, the hijacking of cruise ships, killing of diplomats in Pakistan, bombings of airports, bombing of a club in W. Berlin, kidnappings and beheadings of American contractors, Pan Am Flight 103...

and, of course, 9/11.

Why does the USA have "Interests" in all those countries? Why does the USA have military personal in over 150 countries in the world today? Can you name 150 countries?

[mousecrazy 2]

Weenie wagging?

Is that a professional or technical term that I need to understand in order to continue in a meaningful discussion?

[Carlene 12]

Weenie wagging?

Is that a professional or technical term that I need to understand in order to continue in a meaningful discussion?

I would say it's a highly descriptive term that implies much, while saying little.

By the way......I love it!!!!!!!!

[Poodles 0]

Well if you believe in other sources, the world will come to an end one generation after there is peace in the middle east. Guess we don't have to worry about that soon. (think that was Nostradamus)

My nephew was over there, driving a truck. He literally saw the truck in front of him blown off the road into a river (they were on a bridge). He jumped out of his truck and tried to save his buddies... he saved one. He has a metal now... and scars that will last forever... all for people that won't fight for themselves, don't want us over there, and bomb the people trying to help them. BTW: 8 of his friends died that day.

Bush is the anti-christ. He has done more harm than good, just because he has no "weenie to wag." Did not see him go off to war, nor do you see him sending his daughters...

[mousecrazy 2]

That's all of Groundhog Day I'm good for...have fun.

Hopefully, when I return, I will read some discussion on what type of diplomacy will achieve the goals you would like to see achieved.

Isolationism?

Socialism?

Communism?

Fuel Independence?

What would be the timeframe for these goals, and how would the US transition in the meantime?

Please try to include in the discussion the fact that there will be a new President in less than 2 years, and Bush-hating will be passe. How will the discussion take shape and form then? Will there even be a reason to discuss these issues without Bush-hating as the centerpoint?

Enjoy wallowing in the same old arguments.