George Bush: Worst American president in history

[mousecrazy 2]

He accepted responsibility as commander in Chief, he explained the stakes, and made clear that this is not a political party situation, but a national situation. It won't be just the Republicans that lose, it will be our entire country. Failure won't be failure for President Bush, but failure for the United States. The American people are not pleased with the political handling of this war. That is very different than being opposed to the war, or the tactics of the war, or the strategy or reasons for the war. I think both parties are guilty of politicizing this effort, and it's a shame; it is a shame that many people get their entire impression of world events from sound bites. (Probably not anyone who write on this thread...everyone here is more engaged than that).

I hope we can all just send our prayers/good energy to our troops, and hope for the success of this mission, for their sakes, and the sake of our country.

[Betsyjane 2]

I'll keep everybody in my prayers...Americans and Iraqis....but I truly don't believe we should ever have been there. But we are. And I still don't understand what winning would mean, so I'm directionless about how to cheer us on. In my heart, I believe this will have been one of history's great blunders.

[BJean 16]

Betsyjane: I completely agree with your assessment of Bush's speech last night. It seemed VERY well rehearsed, and I was pleased about his and everyone's efforts. I too wound up falling asleep in the middle, but rallied after a few minutes. It was a bit repetitive in parts, but that's an acceptable way to drive your position home.

I honestly do not believe that most Americans who are against this war and who distrust Bush are feeling that way due to their political leanings. By the same token, I do not believe that the war has been politicized except by the people who are entrenched in the Democratic and Republican political machinery.

Most of us Americans are not that involved in politics except when we vote or get involved in a campaign. We just know what we feel is right and what we feel is wrong for us and for the United States and for our military.

Most of us really do care about humanity throughout the world and are terribly saddened by an awareness of inhumanity in other countries, in any form. Even if we didn't like or hated Saddam's inhumanity, we don't appreciate the hell that the Iraqi people are having to endure or die from in a war that our country has engaged in, on their soil.

Furthermore, we are shocked and outraged by the way this war has been conducted and the toil it has taken on our own military and on our own country.

I will be interested to hear just exactly how the President plans to find the personnel to beef up our ranks in Iraq.

[j_war06 0]

LOL I just came back from my Public Policy Class, and the genius behind me raised his hand and said this brilliant sentence, "Why dont we just divide Iraq by religon, then put enough space between them and a fence so they cant have civil war." Number one, Civil war is going to happen (regardless if the US is there or not, especially since the death of Sadaam), Number two (Look at Russia and that whole part of Europe), and Number 3, what are we going to do, put them in corners and tell them not to look, touch, or speak to one another? In theory his plan would work, in reality, not so much lol! We all got a good laugh out of that....Ok PoliSci ppl laugh at weird things, but HEY atleast we UNDERSTAND the joke.....I agree GW Bush isnt the brightest crayon in the box, but hes not stupid....He knows what is going on and the lack of knowledge bestowed unto us from the government makes us think he is an idiot, and the fact he has no public speaking skills.

[BJean 16]

Dubya knows what's going on to the extent that they tell him what's going on. And he's informed to the extent that it affects him and his need to know. Otherwise, clueless. Or maybe you're right - he's relatively smart. If that is true then he is one heartless, selfish S.O.B. I prefer to think some of his crayons are missing from the box.

[j_war06 0]

lol BJean, your probably right, he is probably missing some of his crayons. And I dont think that he is necessarily heartless, just greedy. He is a politician, and he is concerned about his private agenda, and will get rid of anyone who gets in his way. Politicians have to be self-centered in reality, and they have to be over-confidant and many other qualities you wouldnt necessarily think of. It is suprising what Bush, and ONLY Bush knows compared to everyone else in the entire country. He lets people know what he wants them to know. Its an interesting discussion really. Well Im have class at 5:30 (Contemporary Political Analysis) Which is pretty much this thread all together lol! I am by far not a Bush supporter, but I wasnt a supporter of Kerry either. lol I just think that the past Presidential Election was lacking in the area of candidates.

[Betsyjane 2]

There have actually been some very intelligent people who have recommended dividing Iraq, then having representatives from each area meet as a coalition advisory committee to a central government. Syria has said if that happens and the Kurds get anything, Syria will go to war in the region to stop that from happening. Turkey has said they will fight anyone getting a share besides the faction they support. Iran has hinted likewise...so the issue of dividing Iraq becomes one of causing even greater masses of people to be involved directly in the sectarian struggles.

[BJean 16]

Betsyjane: Wouldn't it just be the absolute pits if our involvement in Iraq and our insistence on a certain path for Iraq contributed to an all out Middle East war? The pits is hardly a strong enough word, but just thinking about it makes me want to use language that isn't fit for mixed company. (You never know when Jack or T_O_M or Tommy might show up!)

[j_war06 0]

There have actually been some very intelligent people who have recommended dividing Iraq, then having representatives from each area meet as a coalition advisory committee to a central government. Syria has said if that happens and the Kurds get anything, Syria will go to war in the region to stop that from happening. Turkey has said they will fight anyone getting a share besides the faction they support. Iran has hinted likewise...so the issue of dividing Iraq becomes one of causing even greater masses of people to be involved directly in the sectarian struggles.

Exactly, that is why it is funny to us PoliSci majors, its an absolutely ridiculous idea when you think about it. I mean really the US is on a hopeless pointless mission there and we are only causing trouble. Our noses belong in Afghanistan, dealing with 9/11 terrorists, threats that we know for sure are after us, not "possible threats to democracy". Democracy can not be forced, but instead must come from within. I just sat through 4 classes today back to back, and all of them discussed the war in Iraq, Ive been talking about Bush and the war since about 2pm today and its almost 9pm and I just finished all my classes, and discussions about Bush lol! Popular subject...NeWayz the US needs to worry about its citizens, and its Democracy, and its safety instead of some other country that is a hopeless cause. You cant force any kind of government on any one, and even if you do, they mostly likely will resort back to their old way of government. Take a look at the situation in Venezuela right now, just for example.

[Carlene 12]

I hope we can all just send our prayers/good energy to our troops, and hope for the success of this mission, for their sakes, and the sake of our country.

I pray every night for the men and women in Iraq. I know what it's like to have one of your children over there.

What continues to nag at me is the poll they did recently, in which 61% of the Iraqis support the attacks on American forces. How can we ever hope to succeed when the very people we are committed to helping don't want us there?

[GeezerSue 7]

He accepted responsibility as commander in Chief, he explained the stakes, and made clear that this is not a political party situation, but a national situation. ...

I hope we can all just send our prayers/good energy to our troops, and hope for the success of this mission, for their sakes, and the sake of our country.

When he is outnumbered and hated by 70% of the country, he goes for the "No Politics" routine. Not exactly the high ground when you recall his "Let me put it to you this way: I earned capital in the campaign, political capital, and now I intend to spend it. It is my style" declaration. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/11/20041104-5.html

In leaving Iraq, our country can't "lose" a war it could never have "won." I cannot find a single person who can define a "win" in the "war on terror." If you can't define it, we can never claim victory. (Check out the "War on Drugs" or "War on Poverty" to see how that kind of thing works.)

~~~~~~~~

As far as dividing Iraq into three sections...Sunni, Shia and Kurd...isn't that what was happening there when the UK-administered provisions of the Treaty of Versailles made the area into Iraq? (I'm not saying that it WAS, I'm really asking.) These people have been trying to massacre each other for about 1600 years. And we're going to cause a democracy to be born? Hardy-fucking-har. No one who has successfully completed a high school psych class would go for that...but Dubya says that's what we're doing there. Right.

As a former troop, MY version of supporting them is to get them the hell out of there...posthaste. and to fund veteran's benefits, because we have a hell of a lot of unseen amputees and brain damaged folks home and on their way home and their claims are NOT being processed in a timely fashion.

[j_war06 0]

Actually its the Iraqi War that is not approved of by 68% of POLLED Americans (many of whom, probably didnt vote)....Not necessarily Bush. I like George W Bush, I just dont like the War in Iraq. His approval rating and that of the war are different, however related ofcourse, but can vary and differ

[Carlene 12]

Actually its the Iraqi War that is not approved of by 68% of POLLED Americans (many of whom, probably didnt vote)....Not necessarily Bush. I like George W Bush, I just dont like the War in Iraq. His approval rating and that of the war are different, however related ofcourse, but can vary and differ

This appeared in USA Today a couple of months ago...

WASHINGTON (AP) — About six in 10 Iraqis say they approve of attacks on U.S.-led forces, and slightly more than that want their government to ask U.S. troops to leave within a year, a poll finds.

The Iraqis also have negative views of Osama bin Laden, according to the early September poll of 1,150.

The poll, done for University of Maryland's Program on International Policy Attitudes, found:

• Almost four in five Iraqis say the U.S. military force in Iraq provokes more violence than it prevents.

• About 61% approved of the attacks — up from 47% in January. A solid majority of Shiite and Sunni Arabs approved of the attacks, according to the poll. The increase came mostly among Shiite Iraqis.

• An overwhelmingly negative opinion of terror chief bin Laden and more than half, 57%, disapproving of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

• Three-fourths say they think the U.S. plans to keep military bases in Iraq permanently.

• A majority of Iraqis, 72%, say they think Iraq will be one state five years from now. Shiite Iraqis were most likely to feel that way, though a majority of Sunnis and Kurds also believed that would be the case.

The PIPA poll, which included an oversample of 150 Sunni Iraqis, has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

[j_war06 0]

ummmm Carlene, help me here, I just woke up.....How is this relevant? Like Im not trying to be rude, or disrespectful to your research or anything, just confused.... Oh and the Associated Press (I know they are viable) however, is a not a good source. Its too general. Like, here, anything I turn in with AP on it, is automatically deducted for not having enough sources or something like that. They are great for reading, but not for quoting. You have to find a private study and research article, those are great for quoting, because they are unique and come directly from a person. And a fact is anything that can be proven right or wrong, remember that when you read figures, compare them to what other places are saying. Do they have a bias? Probably, and possibly a big one because it is politics afterall.

[Betsyjane 2]

Poly Sci classes are much more important and reliable? :-) I remember my Poly Sci classes as being biased and as focusing on biased research, and I remember wondering if any of us, reporters, politicians, or the public, could ever be totally unbiased in real life. Luckily, I agreed with the bias of my classes so I enjoyed them. i also remember the issue about the AP using so many sources that if quoted, it was best to identify where the AP got its information. Didn't mean they weren't worth quoting in real life...just in Poli Sci class.