George Bush: Worst American president in history

[GeezerSue 7]

Since she's not coming back to this thread, she won't be able to follow this link and see that the US, for the first time since 1933, has maintained a "negative savings rate" (that is, people spend more than they make and there IS nothing to save) of 0.7%.

I wonder why, if the economy is doing so well, people aren't putting money in the bank...and what they'll do if their "savings" that they think they have in their property or investments takes a dump.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/12/21/news/economy/savings_rate/?postversion=2006122114

[Carlene 12]

Since she's not coming back to this thread, she won't be able to follow this link and see that the US, for the first time since 1933, has maintained a "negative savings rate" (that is, people spend more than they make and there IS nothing to save) of 0.7%.

I wonder why, if the economy is doing so well, people aren't putting money in the bank...and what they'll do if their "savings" that they think they have in their property or investments takes a dump.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/12/21/news/economy/savings_rate/?postversion=2006122114

Don't forget Social Security, the baby boomer's cookie jar that Bush plans to raid. And defined pensions.

[bitteroldhag 0]

It still comes down to faith. Believe what you want and I will do the same. I still challenge you though to research the topic of the antichrist. I'm sure there is lots out there.

Why don't you do some research on the antichrist? I'd be interested in what you find.

[BJean 16]

Thanks for all your comments about my mum-in-law. They haven't put her on coumadin (which my dad took too) just something to keep her from developing a clot. I think they've taken her off a lot of things since I believe her strokes have been as a result of bleeding in the brain, not blockage. Enough about all that. I don't want to get repremanded for not staying on topic.

But one more thing, Green, why do you have trouble traveling just because you live on this side of the pond? Have you seen everything there is to see that is great and wonderful in North America? Or are you drawn to old stuff and crowds more than new stuff and wide open spaces? Just wondering...

I agree that someone should start a pro-Bush thread. They all get so bent out of shape here. They jump in and make an inane statement about what a good president we have and then, to their surpise, they get trounced royally here. Face it, Republicans, we have lots of ammunition in our arsenal to shoot down just about anything you have to say in defense of the Bush Brigade. The ole chap makes it easy for us every single day.

[green 6]

Thanks for all your comments about my mum-in-law. They haven't put her on coumadin (which my dad took too) just something to keep her from developing a clot. I think they've taken her off a lot of things since I believe her strokes have been as a result of bleeding in the brain, not blockage. Enough about all that. I don't want to get repremanded for not staying on topic.

But one more thing, Green, why do you have trouble traveling just because you live on this side of the pond? Have you seen everything there is to see that is great and wonderful in North America? Or are you drawn to old stuff and crowds more than new stuff and wide open spaces? Just wondering...

I agree that someone should start a pro-Bush thread. They all get so bent out of shape here. They jump in and make an inane statement about what a good president we have and then, to their surpise, they get trounced royally here. Face it, Republicans, we have lots of ammunition in our arsenal to shoot down just about anything you have to say in defense of the Bush Brigade. The ole chap makes it easy for us every single day.

Re your question on my travelling habits, BJean: I have always wanted to travel where I will get to experience life that is as different as possible from the one that I live at home. I want to see different geography, architecture, hear different languages and be exposed to different cultures and foods. I am also interested in places that have a long history. This is why I like to travel to the so-called exotic parts of the world. And yes, I do love seeing the old stuff and I like watching people. Wide open spaces tend to make me both nervous and bored if I am in them for a long time. When I was living in France I spent a lot of time travelling inside the country and in the nearby countries.

Since coming home to live my trips have been further afield. I have done some more travelling in north Africa. I have also travelled in India, Russia, central Asia, and Turkey. My husband and I also love to go to Mexico. We always pick smaller, more intimate hotels that are in the more Mexican areas.

We always have a lot of interesting adventures on our travels and see a lot of amazing sites but it does mean that the pair of us are plain idiot dumb when it comes to North America. (Though thanks to my parents we've often been to Florida.)

I have some more foreign travel that I want to do before I am ready to explore this continent. I want to go to Thailand and to Tibet and I would like to travel in South America. I would eventually like to take a long road trip throughout this continent. My parents did this and loved it.

[Betsyjane 2]

My favorite is Thailand. I love the p[eople, and love and am tickled by the culture. Ya gotta love a placve where the traditional phone book is alphabetical by first name.

[BJean 16]

Thanks, Green. I find your fondness for travel quite different from mine. It may have something to do with the fact that I am about a quarter Cherokee Indian. Give me the wide open spaces, the mountains, streams, lakes, valleys, flora and fauna.

I am less trusting of other people in some different cultures, especially some of the more remote ones you mentioned. I have enjoyed several trips to England, Germany, Paris, Luxembourg, etc., all the usual American tourist places. That's where I feel the most safe, abroad. Mexico and Central America are a completely different animal. We lived 30 min. from the Mexican border when we lived in Arizona. We learned that there are places you can go in Mexico and some that are dangerous. Like America, perhaps, but it isn't as easy to know good places from bad when you are in a foreign country.

We enjoyed Alcapulco and ventured out into the country and met and stayed in a small out of the way hotel there. Once we camped out on Kino Bay and drove into the mountains and were basically run off by some Indians who were said to be former cannibles, but who were supposedly controlled by the government now. I bartered some of my son's clothes for a beautiful wood carving. (They didn't want our money.) We also have stayed in a big luxurious hotel where we ran into many well-known movie or athletic stars. But we know too many people who have had frightening experiences there, some who were incarcerated, some who became seriously ill. I was one of those and it took me months and months to get well.

After that experience, I have been much more cautious about travelling to places that can present a health risk in any way. My DH has been to most of the places you mentioned and has on occasion come home with various afflictions. Although your adventurous nature is appealing on the surface to me, in reality give me the wide open spaces!

Good luck in all your holidays in the future. I am sure it would be fun to get to know you and hear some of your travel tales. BJ

[BJean 16]

P.S. George Bush is definitely one of the worst presidents we've ever had.

I miss T_O_M and his spelling of BuSh.

[green 6]

Thanks, Green. I find your fondness for travel quite different from mine. It may have something to do with the fact that I am about a quarter Cherokee Indian. Give me the wide open spaces, the mountains, streams, lakes, valleys, flora and fauna.

I am less trusting of other people in some different cultures, especially some of the more remote ones you mentioned. I have enjoyed several trips to England, Germany, Paris, Luxembourg, etc., all the usual American tourist places. That's where I feel the most safe, abroad. Mexico and Central America are a completely different animal. We lived 30 min. from the Mexican border when we lived in Arizona. We learned that there are places you can go in Mexico and some that are dangerous. Like America, perhaps, but it isn't as easy to know good places from bad when you are in a foreign country.

We enjoyed Alcapulco and ventured out into the country and met and stayed in a small out of the way hotel there. Once we camped out on Kino Bay and drove into the mountains and were basically run off by some Indians who were said to be former cannibles, but who were supposedly controlled by the government now. I bartered some of my son's clothes for a beautiful wood carving. (They didn't want our money.) We also have stayed in a big luxurious hotel where we ran into many well-known movie or athletic stars. But we know too many people who have had frightening experiences there, some who were incarcerated, some who became seriously ill. I was one of those and it took me months and months to get well.

After that experience, I have been much more cautious about travelling to places that can present a health risk in any way. My DH has been to most of the places you mentioned and has on occasion come home with various afflictions. Although your adventurous nature is appealing on the surface to me, in reality give me the wide open spaces!

Good luck in all your holidays in the future. I am sure it would be fun to get to know you and hear some of your travel tales. BJ

Apologies to everyone. BJean and I are hijacking the thread but not for long. I just wanted to say with respect to this travel thing that I met a veterinarian at party who was incredibly well travelled and who had never, ever owned a passport! He has done all his travelling in the wild lands of Canada and the States.

As for the wide open spaces...I am really, really allergic to bug bites and the little bastards lurv me. I have more health problems after spending time at my in-laws cottage! Sad but true. And my husband never got as sick from any bug abroad as he did from food poisoning in Halifax, Canada last summer. We were there for my nephew's wedding and had left our usual array of travelling drugs at home! It was very, very bad...............!

[BJean 16]

Yeah, well, furthermore, I'll bet Bush's place at Crawford, Texas has lots of bugs and snakes and all. heh, heh, heh.

[green 6]

*loud snickers from green re the above comment*

And I do think that it is very cool that you are part Cherokee. I have noticed that a number of Americans who have "long" roots do have have ancestors who are native American. Are you in touch with this part of your heritage? I would like to learn more.

Though I may seem to be hijacking this thread once again, I should like to point out to you all that over here on this side of the world, history, certainly documented history, has a very, very short time line. If we want to visit this business of rising cultures and of the resulting power struggles then we must agree this hemisphere was a non-participant until the Europeans began to look in this direction.

The United States was economically flourishing but drifted in the long shadow of Europe until these countries were economically, socially and morally shattered by the Second World War. It was at this point where the United States was thrust into the position of being the official foremost supporter of democracy and of The Western Life Style.

This is both an honour and a tough role. With respect to the American taxpayer, this is going to be an expensive business. It is my feeling that Americans are very decent people who have a sterling set of morals. Look at the 20th century: the two most destructive wars were started by the Germans. And certainly the Americans are not rounding up - even now - their entire Muslim population in the style that characterised Hitler's Reich.

I guess where I get cranky, and I have mentioned this many, many times before, is Baby Bush and his crew's blindingly dumb reation to the events of 9/11. The choice of the United States to invade Iraq even though all intelligence indicated that al Qaida was centred in Afghanistan and northern Pakistan and that, furthermore, Iraq was a dead end militarily speaking, was nuts.

[GeezerSue 7]

I'm not Cherokee, but my Mexican half is, of course, "native American." On that side we have an ancestor from a relatively obscure California Tribe, but it was one of the only tribes that had a treaty with the US that was ratified by Congress.

My grandfather started the paperwork to have us enrolled in the rolls of "The Bureau of Indian Affairs," back around 1950. He had fdecided to forgo an earlier opportunity--around 1930--because he was afraid that "Indian blood" would be used to limit his rights.

The enrollment closed right around 1970. We each got a check. I voted for them to give San Diego back, but I was in the minority. The check wasn't much...barely four figures. But I guess it's the thought that counts.

I'm not Indian enough to be into "the open spaces," except to drive by or look at photos and "ohh and ahhh" appropriately. Somehow, the "room service gene" sneaked in.

[green 6]

Green is wildly amused for she is so very, very blonde - this kid needs maximum sunblock whenever she is going to open her front door - and yet her blood profile is entirely asiatic. The truth is that I would have a hard time finding blood or organs on this side of the Atlantic. I would have a hard time in Europe, too. This is why none of us have the right to be racists, eh.

[BJean 16]

LetheaG: My mother's name was Reitha Goldie Fordyce. Her mother was Cherokee Indian and her father was Scotch-Irish. My Dad's mother was Cherokee and his father was Welsh. All four were eventual residents of Oklahoma, however they got there. When I was in elementary school, we were told to have our parents fill out forms about our native American heritage. My parents balked for the same reason their parents balked: they were all afraid of the implications of being counted and being placed on the "rolls', and the motives of the government. They refused to reveal their Cherokee lineage. We knew we were part Indian, but our parents told us that we were only about 1/64th and so it didn't count. In fact it wasn't until much, much later that my parents even told us kids the real truth.

My sibs look more Indian than I, at least until the past few years. I always had reddish brown hair and some freckles and didn't tan, just burned and peeled when exposed, Green. So I feel your pain. Now that I'm older and chubbier, I look more like my mom with roundish face, Indian bone structure and squat body. But I'm working on the squat part.

I love knowing that I am part Cherokee. I am very proud of my grandparents and I respect the fact that they overcame the stigma attached to being "half-breed'. Mom was totally into Cherokee beadwork and creativity and the degree of sophistication that the Cherokees worked to attain. She used to tell us about the Trail of Tears. When I visited the homeland of the Cherokees in North Carolina, it was a very moving experience.

Along comes a cowboy via Yale and oil riches, and because I disagree that our countrymen should lose their lives to protect his rights (or anyone's) to oil in the Middle East, his supporters and he call me a "left wing liberal with no patriotism" and a "traitor to this country." Can anyone understand why that pushes my buttons?

[Betsyjane 2]

Brava!

No one is more American than you, dear. You represent both our immigrant past and the native past.

I represent our pure white bread past. By ancestry I'm English, Welsh, Scottish, and Irish. I grew up in the white bread suburbs of Lake Forest and shaker Heights, and my parents are Republicans who even defended President Nixon. My mother, who is still alive, alert, and 90 years old in 2 days, thinks George Bush should be impeached, and that he has sold this country to meet his own agenda. She fears for our future. The woman was born in 1916 and has never missed voting in any election she was entitled to vote in. I wouldn't call her a traitor either, George!