I'm glad I don't live in Texas anymore

[BJean 16]

Mousecrazy: When I first learned how much administrators in education make versus what teachers make I was furious. Of course a lot of the administrators came up through the ranks, but certainly not all. And how much opportunity is there for a rank and file teacher to get into administration?

I also agree that we would be shocked at where the money goes that is allocated to "education". Obviously it doesn't go to the teachers or the tools needed for teaching. It's a crying shame!

[leatha_g 4]

So true. I have a friend who is a teacher in Ga who has to buy her own pencils, pens etc to have on hand if the kids fail to bring them. WHAT?? This is a cost of doing business and should NOT come out of the teachers pocket.

Sorry, that's only one instance I know of as fact, up close and personal or I'd quote more facts.

[missy4gordon 0]

FACT:

Last year in my son's school, in his second grade classroom of 28 students, there was no science book. The teacher had one book she used as the master and would stand it up in front of the board (not chalk board but the dry erase boards) and it was small, not easy to see unless you were up close. She said the administration said there was no money to purchase these books for the kids. That year, the superintendant, high school principal, and elementary principal received VERY hefty raises, super got $9000.00 raise, principals got $2000.00. Teachers, are you ready??? Each got a whopping $900.

Now, in a school system of currently only 457 kids, that is K-12, please someone tell me why we need a super who makes $90,000.00 per year, 2 principals who each make $63,000.00 per year, none of them teach any classes, 1 business manager makes $33,500.00, 2 secretaries, and not nearly enough teacher's aides????? Our highest paid teacher makes $46,295.00 and she has been here since practically the beginning of time!! Not to mention, the summer before the super got the big raise, he went around stumping for a couple of mills added to our taxes, and if we didn't vote for them, the school would surely close or consolidate w/in 5 years, they desperately needed the money. The mills passed and he got that raise a few months later. Of course this all couldn't have happened without the wonderful school board. Now, to top it all off, I read in the newspaper this week in the city council minutes that the super is asking the city to raise the sales tax 1/2% for the school. :faint:

What do you guys think, maybe I am out to lunch here, but does this seem balanced? I don't work in the education system, so I really don't have anything to compare all this to, so I'm wondering what it looks like to you that are in the school system. I know one thing, education of the children is NOT the priority that it should be. I'm all for paying the teachers, and I know administration is important too, but what the f@#k???

Really, this is just a drop in the bucket to what is going on here, but I would like to point out that this super has been here only 2 years with no prior super experience and our enrollment has been on a steady decline, so why so much administration?

I'm sorry for hijacking this thread but once I started I just couldn't stop!!!

Thank you for listening! I feel better now!

[anonemouse 1]

I know I said I wouldn't be back, but I couldn't resist replying to something.

I agree that teachers are underpaid. I feel that they should all get raises, because let's face it: there aren't that many people that would teach several classes of 30 or so students for 5 days a week for under $40,000/year. And the ones that do are either the really dedicated, wonderful teachers, or they are the ones that got into the profession because they got summers off.

I am a graduate student, getting a Master's degree in biology. One of my duties as a graduate assistant is to assist a couple of professors in their education-majors' biology classes. To be honest, I have seen people that I think will be wonderful teachers when they graduate, and I have seen people that have made me wonder what the educational system is coming to, to allow them to "educate" our children. I hope that they would be weeded out, but unfortunately, many of my students were graduating seniors.

I am all for trying to get professionals to give back to their education system by becoming teachers later in life. Yes, they should be required to take classes on teaching styles, but I think they could be a real benefit to students. Especially if it means those horrid students I had wouldn't be able to get a job. Seriously, I wouldn't let the kids of someone I dislike be taught by some of the people that took the classes I assist in, let alone my own kids. I could tell stories about some of them that would make you wonder how in the world they even got into college.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Carlene, I am afraid I am unable to post the quote about Republicans and the filthy rich because in the Gov. Perry thread, there is an entire day of posts that are missing. There is a gap in the thread from Oct 31 to today, so everything we were posting on Nov. 1 is gone.

The basic idea was that if Republicans had their way, there would be only two classes left: the rich and those who served them.

Anyway, let's just say that my memory is incorrect and this is not what you said. Still, if there were not people who looked on issues differently, there would not be two political parties after all, wouldn't you agree? It may surprise you, but I voted strictly Democrat up until 5 years ago. That's the beauty of it. People can change their minds, think differently, see things a new way. That's what happened to me.

BJean, yes, you wrote the post about teaching degrees that were easy to get when you were in school. I didn't choose to defend that one way or the other, because nowdays, it has been decided that teachers do not need to have a degree in education. Any ol' degree will be fine, and they can seek "alternative certification." Time will tell if this is an actual benefit to public education. Those of us who have taught for a long time are not sure about this.

I think a post I wrote was lost, too, where I pointed out that if lots of money were suddenly handed to public education, I do not believe it would find its way into the pocketbooks of teachers, or even into most classrooms. I asked people who were really concerned about education to check into their local districts. I will give you a hint: local superintendents in this area make around $300,000/year. PLUS other incentives such as house allowances, car allowances, travel allowances, investment packages, etc.

If I am unable to post again this weekend, aside from probably being relieved, please understand that my home computer is on the fritz and may not be working.

Again, even though there are disagreements, I do applaud everyone's interest in the political process.

Is this what you are looking for:

The first thing that we must realize is that the Republican party is out to

destroy the public education system in the USA.

Reasons?

#1. The teachers unions support Democrats

#2. Many conservatives still believe in the arguments of the segregationists and

want private schools to protect their white students from poor Blacks

#3. Religion can be taught in private schools and more religious dogma equals

more Republican voters

The "No-Child Left Behind" program is a perfect example. The worse a school

does, the more its budget is cut. "We don't want to reward bad schools" is the

excuse. It may not be the teacher's fault in that poor performing school. It

might be the poverty of the area or the fact that the children are hungry.

BTW, does everybody know that part of the "No-Child Left Behind" law mandates

that schools give military recruiters the names, addresses and phone numbers of

all their students?

Note: Regarding reason #2. Not all conservatives are racists in sheep's

clothing, but many are and many more conservatives fall for the lines being

espoused by the racist conservatives in their group.

Excellent points. Most Republicans I know send their children to private

schools, or graduated their now-grown children from them, and/or attended

private schools themselves. There is absolutely no payoff to them or their

peers by fixing/improving the public school system. Their families and friends

and most of their supporters will derive zero benefit from the $$$ spent on

public education. So tell me again why we should believe they care about our

kids?

Same thing with Medicaid. Republicans do not use Medicaid. They have the best

health coverage available, because they can afford the premiums. My youngest

son works for Haliburton. He is a white collar professional. His medical

insurance for himself and his family is $360 per month. It's the same price for

the employees who earn half what he does. Haliburton is one of the largest

companies in the world. They can negotiate the very best (cheapest) rates for

their employees' health insurance...better than American Airlines, or IBM or

ANYONE. And they DO get great rates, but they contribute almost nothing to the

cost. And I guess we all know which party Haliburton is aligned with.

Unless you are a member of high-level, executive management, you can't really

afford to be a Republican. You may think the GOP is saving you from those

money-grubbing, lazy, good-for-nothing welfare mothers who are out to steal your

money, but you are wrong. The Republican party takes care of its own - the

very, very elite...the very, very, obscenely rich. They might throw you a bone

once in a while, just to get your vote, but they are responsible for the

shrinking middle class, and even the upper middle class. They are sending you

DOWN, not helping you up. If the Republicans have their way, eventually there

will be only two classes of Americans: the very rich, and those who serve them.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Teachers are not underpaid.

Michal Jordan only made $305,000 per regular season basketball game.

That is only as much as a teacher makes in about 8 years. Show me a teacher than can score 30 points a game.

Michael Jordan only made about $8,000 for each shot he took whether the ball went in or not. :help:

How can you say teachers are underpaid? :help:

Grown men playing children's games deserve a lot more money than teachers who must go to school for years in order to learn how to teach and train our children.

What's wrong with you people? :faint:

[BJean 16]

Very funny, T_O_M. There are lots more examples out there, but what we really need to work on in order to up the pay scale for teachers is to up their image. Having young female teachers seduce their 13-14 yr. old students is not helping!

[Carlene 12]

Having young female teachers seduce their 13-14 yr. old students is not helping!

My husband, all his friends, my 3 (grown) sons and their friends complain every time one of these stories plays on the evening news that none of their teachers ever tried to seduce them. I think this must happen very, very infrequently.

[bitteroldhag 0]

Carlene -- I doubt if most grown-ups want to seduce kids who live on an entirely different plane from the grown-up. However, male college professors have been seducing students for ages and getting away with it. The school year was open season for coeds and professors. Female college professors rarely seduce a student. We had a lesbian professor who did and got fired pdq. Meanwhile the male professors continue having little affairs with their students. It is true that the students are usually over 18 and are adults, but I consider this sort of seduction to be entirely unethical and immoral. Our former university president had a long-term affair with a girl who was a cheerleader when they met. He got her through graduate school and gave her a job as a dean of one of our campuses. Then his wife divorced him and there was a scandal. By this time, he and his honey had moved on to another campus. I don't see how teachers can be held to moral standards that their bosses are not held to also. But as the university president, he was privileged and got away with this affair while lowly professors get fired pronto for sexual harrassment.

You Texans certainly are a cantankerous group. But the nation has been divided by political professionals who think that such divisions are useful in getting elected. I think that is a shame since, in my experience, real Republicans are mostly middle of the road, not extremists like the neo-conservatives who are currently in power. I don't consider them real Republicans since their agenda does not square with what the Republican party has stood for in the past. I made an effort to understand the neo-conservative's ideas and what I came up with is: 1) the believe that America has the moral high ground in the world 2) it is up to them to spread American morality through force if necessary 3) America is the "city on the hill" that the Puritans thought they were creating, the Promised Land 4) all countries should be like America. The sheer stupidity and arrogance of these ideas amaze me. How could otherwise intelligent people think that we should force our way of life on others? Do we have the facts to support these ideas? It's good to think that our country is a good place, but it's bad to try to force our culture on other countries. I hope that the real Republicans see this and oust the neo-conservatives whose program has not proven to be very workable. Above all, I think we need to understand that the current administration is composed of neo-conservatives, not real Republicans. By the way, I'm a Democrat, but I respect the ideals of the Republican Party. It seems that the neo-conservatives have split people on specific issues to the point that neither the Democrats or the Republicans are looking clearly at the big issues, and both have forsaken the basic beliefs that have been the mainstays of their parties. I hope we can get back to rational discussion rather than shrill bickering and name-calling so we can move our country forward.

[Carlene 12]

Carlene -- I doubt if most grown-ups want to seduce kids who live on an entirely different plane from the grown-up. However, male college professors have been seducing students for ages and getting away with it. The school year was open season for coeds and professors. Female college professors rarely seduce a student. We had a lesbian professor who did and got fired pdq. Meanwhile the male professors continue having little affairs with their students. It is true that the students are usually over 18 and are adults, but I consider this sort of seduction to be entirely unethical and immoral. Our former university president had a long-term affair with a girl who was a cheerleader when they met. He got her through graduate school and gave her a job as a dean of one of our campuses. Then his wife divorced him and there was a scandal. By this time, he and his honey had moved on to another campus. I don't see how teachers can be held to moral standards that their bosses are not held to also. But as the university president, he was privileged and got away with this affair while lowly professors get fired pronto for sexual harrassment.

You Texans certainly are a cantankerous group. But the nation has been divided by political professionals who think that such divisions are useful in getting elected. I think that is a shame since, in my experience, real Republicans are mostly middle of the road, not extremists like the neo-conservatives who are currently in power. I don't consider them real Republicans since their agenda does not square with what the Republican party has stood for in the past. I made an effort to understand the neo-conservative's ideas and what I came up with is: 1) the believe that America has the moral high ground in the world 2) it is up to them to spread American morality through force if necessary 3) America is the "city on the hill" that the Puritans thought they were creating, the Promised Land 4) all countries should be like America. The sheer stupidity and arrogance of these ideas amaze me. How could otherwise intelligent people think that we should force our way of life on others? Do we have the facts to support these ideas? It's good to think that our country is a good place, but it's bad to try to force our culture on other countries. I hope that the real Republicans see this and oust the neo-conservatives whose program has not proven to be very workable. Above all, I think we need to understand that the current administration is composed of neo-conservatives, not real Republicans. By the way, I'm a Democrat, but I respect the ideals of the Republican Party. It seems that the neo-conservatives have split people on specific issues to the point that neither the Democrats or the Republicans are looking clearly at the big issues, and both have forsaken the basic beliefs that have been the mainstays of their parties. I hope we can get back to rational discussion rather than shrill bickering and name-calling so we can move our country forward.

What a great post!!! I so agree with you, and not just because you are a fellow Democrat. I think both parties have splintered and no longer represent "old time" Republican OR Democratic ideals. I think there is untold graft, greed, corruption and hypocrisy going on in DC every single day - by members of both parties. So many of them line their own pockets, and those of their big contributors, at our expense. I never vote for an incumbent unless he/she has shown some real evidence of a job well done...I don't care what platform they are running on.

You're right about Texans, too. When I was in college, my Texas Government instructor asked us why Texans only allow their legislature to meet every two years. His answer was that we don't like government in the first place; we are suspicious of politicians in general, and we just plain resent being told what to do.

I have many Republican friends who are fine people. None of them embrace the entire Republican platform, any more than I am in favor of everything officially sanctioned by the Democratic political machine. If you are a free-thinking person, I just don't think it's possible.

I am in favor of same sex marriage and opposed to abortion on demand. I am delighted that welfare, as we once knew it, no longer exists. I am opposed to elimination of the estate tax, but in favor of raising the exclusion to 3 million dollars.

I am opposed to the privatization of Social Security and I am in favor of stem cell research, as long as embryos are not produced for the purpose of being sacrificed.

I am against the continued occupation of Iraq by US military forces. We tried. It isn't working. Bring them home.

I am in favor of term limits, capital punishment, and no fault divorce. I am opposed to state income tax, casino gambling (in my state....I love going to Vegas), and common law marriage.

I support an increase in the minimum wage and enforcement of existing laws regarding illegal aliens. Putting up an actual fence on the border, however, is just crazy - and outrageously expensive.

I am totally against the whole "press one for English" thing. I'm sorry, but I live in the USA, an English speaking country since the days of colonization. I have nothing against immigrants. My family immigrated here, too. We adapted, we conformed, and we adopted the customs (and language) of America. In other words, we became Americans....we didn't expect America to become us.

GOD BLESS AMERICA....:usa2:

[mousecrazy 2]

Thank you T.O.M., for the quote. That was the post I was looking for.

BJean, your post was thoughtfully written. There are shades of conservative and shades of liberal...and we, the public, must know our values and be sure we are voting for people who best reflect them. We cannot keep seeking perfection, and throw out the good because it isn't perfect. We will pay for that strategy by getting representives who are very far off from the views we hold. This applies whether you are Republican or Democrat. I've been both. Once your representatives are elected, then you have to watch their voting records. You have to contact their office and say thank you when they vote to reflect your position, and say "not so fast" when they don't. If we get lazy, which I believe most people have, then we get what we deserve.

About the education question, for missy4gordon: your experience is NOT unique. In fact, it is not as severe as many I have seen and heard about. In the district where I work, which is considered a wealthy district, we are forced to give some of our tax money to the poorer districts in a "Robin Hood" finance plan...so now, we are "strapped for cash". But not so strapped that the curriculum office can't afford to hire several consultants each year...pay their way to our area, put them up at luxury hotels, pull hundreds of us out of our classes for a couple of days, feed all of us lunch, and then there is the consultant's fee...which can run in the thousands. We are not so strapped that the principals make in the 90,000s, mid-level administrators/superintendents make in the 150,000s, and there are dozens of them, and I've already mentioned what the superintendent makes. A starting teacher, brand new, makes 42,000, which is pretty good. After 29 years, I now make 57,000.

Most teachers I know are not so much complaining about the salary, but the inefficient management, the crazy rules, the lack of support, the high-stakes testing, etc. Any of us COULD move up to administration...the point is this: what if you WANT to teach? What if you WANT to stay in the classroom with the kids, and that is where your gifts are?

Hope this answered some questions about the state of education for you, and even more, hope it causes some of you to start digging around and asking questions of your school board and demanding fiscal responsibility. This is not depriving the kids of anything! Believe me, they will not be hurt if the district cuts back on things like "English curriculum coordinators" and "elementary gifted curriculum design implementation coordinator". Believe me.

As for the insane teachers having sex with kids...I just wonder if they were authentic teachers with college degrees and teacher certificates, or were they "alternatively certified"? It's a question I've had in my mind, and have no way to find out the answer.

[bitteroldhag 0]

In Oklahoma, we have term limits which I like a lot even though our new guys are always on the lowly committees in Washington. I like term limits because we have spawned a whole bunch of professional politicians which is not exactly what the framers of the Constitution had in mind. On the other hand, if politicians don't get paid well, the only politicians will be rich people. It appears that many politicians ARE rich people. But we have non-rich students who intend to be career politicians. That's weird. These are people who are interested in power and power corrupts. So I support term limits. A politician can do a lot of damage in two or three terms, but at least there is an end looming. I will be very happy when our current senators reach their term limits. They are incredibly corrupt and stupid. It's embarrassing that in Oklahoma, some of the silliest people run for office and win.

By the way, I agree with you on some issues and I disagree on others. I think I'm a bit more liberal than you are since I support abortion on demand and stem cell research, assuming they use the zillions of embryos already on ice. I support abortion because I don't think anyone has the right to tell a woman what to do with her body. I particularly don't think a male should have the right to tell a female what to do with her body. Until men can have babies, I think these decisions should be left to the women. I note that many anti-abortion groups are headed by men. That strikes me as a throwback to the past when men controlled everything. They didn't do a very good job, so maybe it's time women controlled their own lives and stopped being treated like things rather than people.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

We will let you women control your own lives and bodies when we are good and ready to.

[Carlene 12]

We will let you women control your own lives and bodies when we are good and ready to.

And we'll give you back your cojones when you can wrestle us to the ground and pull them out of our purse. Or after a sufficiently humiliating period spent begging on bended knee. Whichever you prefer.

[Victoriana 10]

Dear Tired OLD Man, Im a Republican, I pay taxes and my kids go to public school.

Even my Republican friends that send thier kids to private schools still pay the same taxes and their private tuition, to me that means that somebody elses kids get the tax benifits that they still contribute. Why be so exclusionary? Last time I paid my taxes that money went to medicaid and welfare etc...

looks fuzzy in here!!!