Pardon my bluntness...

[ibehere10 163]

You know what' date=' I agree, I believe it is imperative that people follow their doctors advice. However, as forum administrator, the way I see some members handling situations in where people are coming on here, admitting they messed up, they have cravings, they chewed a piece of food and spit it out or whatever problem they are experiencing is actually resulting in members being afraid to post and ask for the support they need. I have people contacting me numerous times every day about what most of them refer to as "the sleeve nazis" and that as a result of them, they are leaving the forums, scared to ask for help, etc. One, it upsets me that members feel so strongly about them they have actually attached a distasteful term to them and two, it makes me really sad and worried that we are losing people who only want to be able to ask for help without the fear of being ridiculed, condemned or chastised like they are children.

I have seen people told they have an eating disorder and need to seek immediate counseling because they were so craving solid food that they chewed on a tiny piece of something and then spit it out. Or, people who have been told they are failures because they are battling their food demons and struggling with the liquid diet. Or what about saying someone who does that has "no common sense" or they shouldn't have gotten the sleeve if they had no control or didn't have their food demons handled before getting the surgery. To me, that makes no sense. If all of that were the case, and everyone was so perfect, why would we need procedures like weight loss surgery or support forums such as this?

The approach in which we respond can make a world of difference. Lets face it, the majority of obese people usually have low self-esteem. Many have been called names, made fun of, excluded from things, etc. VST and the rest of our forums should be a safe place for them, a place of understanding, compassion, sharing of ideas, knowledge and experience. They should be able to feel safe in posting what they are going through, struggling with, etc. If someone wants to know when they can drink alcohol, is it better to share your knowledge as to why alcohol is bad or to call them a drunken fool who needs to join AA immediately? If someone posts that they messed up and chewed a bite of lasagna and then spit it out, is it better to tell them they have no common sense and did a bonehead thing, or to say, "you know what, it happened and you can't change it, but you can change those behaviors from this point forward, let me share with you what I did when I found those urges to be almost overwhelming." If someone posts asking if it is necessary to follow the post-op diet, is it better to tell them they obviously have an eating disorder and were not prepared for this surgery and they should have conquered their food issues before getting sleeved, (in which case, they could have saved themselves thousands of dollars as they then wouldn't have needed the procedure) or, explain to them as simply as possible how the stomach works when digesting food and how eating solids too soon can risk their healing staple line, which can result in a life-threatening leak?

Most people don't like to be lectured or chastised like they are a child or a fool. They prefer to be spoken to in a respectful and supportive manner. You don't have to tell them it is okay to eat whatever they want, whenever they want, but the approach in which you tell them it isn't okay makes all the difference in the world. Let them know you have been there, felt that, battled that and you sympathize and understand what they are going through. Then, offer support by sharing with them how you conquered that, what helped you and let them know you will continue to be here for them, to support them and motivate them when they need it.

Sent from my iPad using VST[/quote']

Thank you , Susan!!

[Butterthebean 8,146]

We all get eating plans before an after. And I bet most self payers do more research than most because we may not have local support....

I'm not sure what the correlation is between being well prepared and being self pay vs insured. I've seen too many people on this website from both sides of the aisle who have no idea what to do next. And while I do think each person should do their own research beforehand, what pains me the most is the fact that some surgeons would send their patients out into the world without a comprehensive, detailed plan. That is just negligent to me. Success of This surgery depends ENTIRELY on a person's post op plan. The plan can be moderate or strict, but we all need one. Without it we just go back to our bad habits and we find ways to eat around the sleeve.

The worst part is many people come here looking for that plan, but it's not here. All of our collective experiences are too varied. There is no one right plan. It needs to come from one's medical team, not this website.

[delta_girl 931]

Sometimes I really am surprised about some of the questions or lack of information. There are a lot of very basic questions. It could be that some are just wanting to connect with others and that is an easy way to interact with people in the forum.

But a simple web search can answer a huge percentage of these questions, such as general definitions. Self-education, to me at least, is like brushing your teeth, buying groceries, etc...a basic life skill.

And if you are reading these forums and see that other people have a post-op plan, then it only takes a few minutes to find post-op vsg plans from major health centers and top hospitals on the Internet.

[Bos123 221]

I'm not sure what the correlation is between being well prepared and being self pay vs insured. I've seen too many people on this website from both sides of the aisle who have no idea what to do next. And while I do think each person should do their own research beforehand' date=' what pains me the most is the fact that some surgeons would send their patients out into the world without a comprehensive, detailed plan. That is just negligent to me. Success of This surgery depends ENTIRELY on a person's post op plan. The plan can be moderate or strict, but we all need one. Without it we just go back to our bad habits and we find ways to eat around the sleeve.

The worst part is many people come here looking for that plan, but it's not here. All of our collective experiences are too varied. There is no one right plan. It needs to come from one's medical team, not this website.

[/quote']

I completely agree with everything. I am self pay and have had family that have had their wls covered by insurance. We all got different info... It's crazy really, not overly regulated per say...

[iggychic 1,405]

We all get eating plans before an after. And I bet most self payers do more research than most because we may not have local support. And I never said its ok to eat Cookies and popcorn out right away. All I'm saying is that many people may truly not know the answer to these questions. If you guys can't be compassionate and support in your answers because it frustrates you maybe you should keep on scrolling and let someone else answer the question. I've seen a lot of people come down hard on iggy and others' date=' and dislike her because of her delivery of responses and frankly it's sad because she has a lot of good info to share. People on here and in private groups begin to talk about "sleeve nazis" and how rude they are as opposed to learning from their truly inspiring an sometimes scary experiences. Like I said its just a thought...[/quote']

You know Bos, when I had my surgery I came home and never left my bed. I was so sick, so weak, had horrible pain, went back and forth to the er and my horrible doctor, only to be told here, at the er and by my doctor, that all was fine. It was normal, just had to get through it, blah blah blah as I lay there literally dying. No one said, go to another doctor, go have a leak test, NO ONE. And so I nearly died...two weeks of hell, then six more getting repaired from all the damage the poison did to me.

So I do come down hard on people who make stupid choices and I do tell people to go to the hospital if they have signs of a leak, not later, but NOW because I know what it's like to lay in bed dying with no one caring to offer anything but "it's normal, wait it out". This apparently makes me a very bad person. I get the picture. We don't want to hear anything negative about this surgery so, that like me, we can all go into it with sunshine and roses, wait out the bad stuff and likely we'll be fine. Or a few will die, but that isn't all bad cuz they won't come here and post their experiences and scare people off.

Best wishes with sunshine and roses. I wish them for everyone! Despite the hate ya'll feel I'm full of (and I'm not) I actually do wish that everyone would recover with sunshine and roses.

[lessofmeismore 1,405]

Iggy, you may not remember but I did tell you on here that something didn't seem right. Now I also know at that time you were saying you already knew what the cause was...internal bleeding...I just want to clarify that I do and have listened to people and tell them to seek further help if they are not getting better. I followed your story closely and asked many questions and was very very concerned. I remember others concern as well.

[vsginnj 415]

Goodness' date=' people certainly are taking this personally.

Contrary to what someone inferred, I'm not trying to belittle anyone. I'm genuinely flabbergasted by the behavior I've seen and trying to comprehend why it happens so often. It's probably the engineer in me, always trying to solve problems. I understand the temptations people have, I have them myself. I was stuck at a stoplight in front of a KFC today and my mouth was watering because I smelled the Colonel's secret recipe of eleven herbs and spices. I swear, that chicken smelled like the most delicious thing on the planet. My pre-op diet is kicking my ass and I know for sure the post-op diet will be even worse as my surgeon has an extremely conservative post-op regimen.

Cravings themselves are not the issue. I'm not criticizing anyone for having cravings or temptations, that would be incredibly hypocritical. I completely sympathize with folks who start threads looking for help because they're craving something. That's not what this is about. What I'm having difficulty understanding is this; why do people seek approval from what are basically complete strangers to violate their doctor's directives, when they know it's not in their best interest? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Quite frankly, I'm shocked that people are getting out the torches and pitchforks over this. Perhaps instead of lashing out at me because I touched a nerve, we should figure out why this happens so often and see what can be done about it? That would be support, wouldn't it?[/quote']

11 herbs and spices I think I peed a little, hahaha. Don't be offended sweetie some folks confuse a public forum= place for open honest exchange of knowledge ,for a support group= safe usually private intimate, clinically moderated place for expression of self. Not everyone has an understanding spouse or faith group,or even a friend who gets this process, hell we don't even get each other sometimes if you look around!!

[Catracks 865]

To me coddling is not supportive. I cannot respond with sunshine, flowers and puppy dogs. Call it a flaw. Take my advice or don't. I suppose there are very wounded people here, but I don't walk on eggshells at the expense of people who respond to common sense rather than emotion.

[Bos123 221]

You know Bos' date=' when I had my surgery I came home and never left my bed. I was so sick, so weak, had horrible pain, went back and forth to the er and my horrible doctor, only to be told here, at the er and by my doctor, that all was fine. It was normal, just had to get through it, blah blah blah as I lay there literally dying. No one said, go to another doctor, go have a leak test, NO ONE. And so I nearly died...two weeks of hell, then six more getting repaired from all the damage the poison did to me.

So I do come down hard on people who make stupid choices and I do tell people to go to the hospital if they have signs of a leak, not later, but NOW because I know what it's like to lay in bed dying with no one caring to offer anything but "it's normal, wait it out". This apparently makes me a very bad person. I get the picture. We don't want to hear anything negative about this surgery so, that like me, we can all go into it with sunshine and roses, wait out the bad stuff and likely we'll be fine. Or a few will die, but that isn't all bad cuz they won't come here and post their experiences and scare people off.

Best wishes with sunshine and roses. I wish them for everyone! Despite the hate ya'll feel I'm full of (and I'm not) I actually do wish that everyone would recover with sunshine and roses.[/quote']

I empathize with you iggy, I truly do. My mom had the vsg may 8th of this year. They sent her home two days later and two days after that she got a helicopter ride to the city to save her life. She had a leak, was in the hospital for two months and nearly died from complications . She then had a drain bag in and has had complications since. Hopefully this January she will have her leaks/ issues fixe for good. She is alone and my sister and I were left to deal with our family's as well as all of her financial and other burdens. It's was hell, scary. She is still not back to work. I can sum this up in a couple paragraphs but you know better than anyone else what a toll it takes on everyone around you day by day. So I can appreciate where you are coming from because I've been through it too, just a bit differently. I'm just saying with all the great advise and experience you have to share, I would hate for that too be ignored because of your delivery. And not just yours either. Now there's no rule on how to deliver a msg, I am grateful for you sharing your experiences and I wish you and everyone one the best.

[isajck 229]

I find it ironic that there's this thread right here wondering why people do these things, followed by a bunch of "you don't know or understand" and "you're not being supportive!" posts...and just a few threads down on this board are a bunch of people reaming out another person for wanting to start solids before their surgeon allows it.

Look, being a food addict doesn't give you a free pass to do stupid things. And yes, it's not nice or PC to say it, but it's absolutely a stupid thing to trust a surgeon to slice your body open and remove most of an organ, and then to decide on your own to just eat what you want despite the fact that he/she gave you a diet specifically geared to prevent life threatening complications.

YOU CAN DIE FROM A LEAK. Do you know why the complication rate is low with the sleeve? Partly because our surgeons give us post op diets to follow to prevent complications!

I'm sorry, but if you are not in a place where you can mentally withstand three weeks of a liquid diet and would rather risk your life eating Cookies and hamburgers during that phase, you should probably get some counseling prior to surgery. I am not being cruel, I am saying this as nicely as I know how to say it. There is no shame in needing support. However, it would be a real shame for someone to risk their life and undergo serious pain and follow on surgeries because they were not prepared to exercise willpower long enough to heal.

We all have food addictions and bad habits - every one of us. Some people cope better than others, certainly. But nobody here has an easy relationship with food or we'd have skipped the organ removal!

And I don't care what anyone says - being supportive means being HONEST. Sure, there are nice ways to do this and blunt and harsh ways. In my opinion, the OP was not harsh or rude in any way. Certainly she said nothing out of line.

If you come here and ask the advice of total strangers on the internet, do not expect that everyone is going to give you a rainbow sparkles hug when you're doing dumb things. Sometimes we need a wake up call and gently saying, "Gosh, I don't know that eating a cheeseburger is a good idea a week post op" probably isn't as effective as saying, "Do you have a death wish?!"

People with addictions love to blame their addictions for their own choices and weakness but the reality is that every one of us can change. We have to choose to do it. Do not say "I can't stop eating" because YES YOU CAN. It's just harder to stop, that's all.

Good luck, folks. And to anyone I offend now or later on VST, I'm sure I meant it in the nicest way possible.

~Cheri

This post needs to be pinned at the top of the forum. Wish I could do more than like it.

[LizTex2587 212]

Iggy, your honesty is appreciated by many! You have real experience with the worst that this surgery has to offer through no fault of your own...people just close their ears to things they don't want to hear (even though they may need to hear these things) there is a time and a place hand holding and coddling, but when people are riding a dangerous line with their health because of less than intelligent choices the kid gloves have to come off. Reality check!! I have already said it and I will say it again...we need to take some personal responisbility for what we put in our mouths!! Not doing so is what has put us all in the throes of obesity! If we mess up ( and most of us will) we just need to be honest with ourselves, give ourselves a swift kick in the pants and try again... Iggy I think you may be me sleeve hero!! LOL

[Geminidrive 389]

I have already said it and I will say it again...we need to take some personal responisbility for what we put in our mouths!!

Amen!!!

[vsginnj 415]

Maybe it is frustrating' date=' but keep in mind that some of us are self pay and may not have had the support as some others have had such as counseling or support from a nut. So although these questions may sound stupid or common knowledge to those who were thoroughly educated about it, some have not. Just a thought...[/quote']

Perhaps one should educate themselves and build a support system before kicking out all that money and expecting to sit back not participate in their own recovery and expect the inches and pounds to fall off.

[delta_girl 931]

I'm self pay and feel very well informed. I asked a lot of questions and did a lot of reading.

[Bos123 221]

I did too delta. And the team I've been workin for has been great. But I've met a few self payers who are wonderful people and haven't had as much direction. So I share with them as much as I can and try to support them as much as I can so we can all be successful. In the end it's up to everyone of us to make the right choices.