Pardon my bluntness...

[toy27 62]

Wow these posts has helped me alot i am planning on getting sleeved feb 2013 & i have been cheating on my diet telling my self this is it enjoy it now Steph has made me realize i need 2 stop get serious or dont have the freaking surgery so from now on i'm gonna b true 2 myself &my body i have 2 kids & a husband 2 b her 4 also thank yal so much 4 opening my eyes

[*susan* 1,709]

Susan' date=' we cannot help the cravings, but we can be in control as to how we respond to them. Sorry, but if a life can be saved, I'm not going to say that ignoring your surgeon's advice is okay and try again tomorrow.

The proper response is: You did a bonehead thing. Don't do it again.

Why is that so hard for people to take?[/quote']

You know what, I agree, I believe it is imperative that people follow their doctors advice. However, as forum administrator, the way I see some members handling situations in where people are coming on here, admitting they messed up, they have cravings, they chewed a piece of food and spit it out or whatever problem they are experiencing is actually resulting in members being afraid to post and ask for the support they need. I have people contacting me numerous times every day about what most of them refer to as "the sleeve nazis" and that as a result of them, they are leaving the forums, scared to ask for help, etc. One, it upsets me that members feel so strongly about them they have actually attached a distasteful term to them and two, it makes me really sad and worried that we are losing people who only want to be able to ask for help without the fear of being ridiculed, condemned or chastised like they are children.

I have seen people told they have an eating disorder and need to seek immediate counseling because they were so craving solid food that they chewed on a tiny piece of something and then spit it out. Or, people who have been told they are failures because they are battling their food demons and struggling with the liquid diet. Or what about saying someone who does that has "no common sense" or they shouldn't have gotten the sleeve if they had no control or didn't have their food demons handled before getting the surgery. To me, that makes no sense. If all of that were the case, and everyone was so perfect, why would we need procedures like weight loss surgery or support forums such as this?

The approach in which we respond can make a world of difference. Lets face it, the majority of obese people usually have low self-esteem. Many have been called names, made fun of, excluded from things, etc. VST and the rest of our forums should be a safe place for them, a place of understanding, compassion, sharing of ideas, knowledge and experience. They should be able to feel safe in posting what they are going through, struggling with, etc. If someone wants to know when they can drink alcohol, is it better to share your knowledge as to why alcohol is bad or to call them a drunken fool who needs to join AA immediately? If someone posts that they messed up and chewed a bite of lasagna and then spit it out, is it better to tell them they have no common sense and did a bonehead thing, or to say, "you know what, it happened and you can't change it, but you can change those behaviors from this point forward, let me share with you what I did when I found those urges to be almost overwhelming." If someone posts asking if it is necessary to follow the post-op diet, is it better to tell them they obviously have an eating disorder and were not prepared for this surgery and they should have conquered their food issues before getting sleeved, (in which case, they could have saved themselves thousands of dollars as they then wouldn't have needed the procedure) or, explain to them as simply as possible how the stomach works when digesting food and how eating solids too soon can risk their healing staple line, which can result in a life-threatening leak?

Most people don't like to be lectured or chastised like they are a child or a fool. They prefer to be spoken to in a respectful and supportive manner. You don't have to tell them it is okay to eat whatever they want, whenever they want, but the approach in which you tell them it isn't okay makes all the difference in the world. Let them know you have been there, felt that, battled that and you sympathize and understand what they are going through. Then, offer support by sharing with them how you conquered that, what helped you and let them know you will continue to be here for them, to support them and motivate them when they need it.

Sent from my iPad using VST

[iggychic 1,405]

You are making a smart choice, and please don't see this as the last time you will ever enjoy food again! You will eat again and enjoy it, but hopefully in a better shaped body, and probably less of it....but every bite will be savored Life isn't over with this surgery...it should be beginning

[iggychic 1,405]

Susan, you have just as many people who have been here for some time who are leaving because they find the hugs and rosy support to be dangerous and frustrating. As a forum, I guess you have to chose who you want to be here for, or let the forum do so naturally. On another site I participate in there is a common complaint that they just can't take this site for long because it's so frustrating.

I am all for supporting people are needing to TALK about their issues, but I will be one of those people who is hated I guess because I am not going to be quiet and let another reader think it's not a big deal to eat popcorn week two. People should be afraid to post that they broke their doctors rules. They should be so danged afraid that they DON'T BREAK THEM! Such is life...you have to decide what demographic you're after I guess.

[My Sleeved Tummy 56]

4alongerlife,

I completely agree with you--about everything you wrote. I, too, feel like sometimes this forum gets a little toxic. I'm nearly 2 months post-op (with no complications, thank God), and have been coming here for months.

I was sleeved at mayo Clinic, and I've got to say...I was not put on a rigid post-op program. Nor did I have a pre-op diet. I had 12 days Clear Liquids, a little less than one month puree, then the surgeon/dietitian said I could start adding soft foods in as I felt ready, and advance to a normal diet...as I felt ready. My surgeon has done thousands of surgeries, and the complication rate at Mayo is minimal. If they feel that I can progress as I'm ready...I'll trust them. But, sometimes I also need some advice. I don't want to email the dietitian or call the surgical service every time I want to try something new. For example, popcorn isn't listed in my book. I haven't wanted any, but I have no idea when it's safe to eat, so I look to others who have had this surgery for advice.

With so many doctors having so many different plans, you can surely understand why people get confused. Why is it that this person can eat crackers and cheese sticks at 2 weeks out, but another person is told by their doctor they need to wait 2 months? It really makes little sense--since the surgery is basically done the same way in every hospital.

Now, Mayo is a HUGE medical institution, known worldwide. If they don't give me a "strict plan" to follow, imagine how many other sleevers, who had their surgeries elsewhere, are in the same boat! Maybe a newbie posts about wanting to eat popcorn or they have a question about WLS friendly fast food options-- it could be because they honestly were not told and did not know. There have been a lot of times I've had questions about certain foods--just curious when others tried them and how they tolerated--but I really haven't felt absolutely comfortable doing that here. I didn't want to be attacked.

That being said, I truly understand the risks of eating foods early. I've read enough posts on here to realize that leaks happen (how often they happen due to someone progressing their diet too early, I'm not sure, every story that I have read has been because of some sort of doctor error.), but I PERSONALLY feel that a lot of times threads get completely "hijacked" by the same people all the time, telling their horrible (they are absolutely horrible, I can't imagine ever living through such an experience. You ladies and gents are tough!) stories about complications, scaring the original poster half to death or making them feel like they're complete failures, all the while never offering an answer to their question.

We've all been there. We've all made a mistake. We know what it feels like to fail. Instead of reaming the poster out, how about offering some advice or support? Not calling them "nuts" or making them feel worse than they already do?

I don't know, maybe I just had to vent all this out, but it's kind of starting to get to me. Maybe this is a reason there isn't a ton of long-term sleevers on the board? I don't know.

[My Sleeved Tummy 56]

And today another thread pops up with someone eating a week ahead of their doctors schedule (two weeks out...chicken sounds great!) Gad what makes these people smarter than their doctors????? Argh...time to clean house LOL

FYI---at 2 weeks out I COULD eat chicken. It was pureed, but I could eat it. I was told a puree can be anything as long as it is smooth with no chunks.

I'm sorry, but I just feel a lot of times that the way you respond to people--or mock them is rude.

What do you mean by "time to clean house?" That's not very supportive.

[Butterthebean 8,146]

4alongerlife' date='

I completely agree with you--about everything you wrote. I, too, feel like sometimes this forum gets a little toxic. I'm nearly 2 months post-op (with no complications, thank God), and have been coming here for months.

I was sleeved at mayo Clinic, and I've got to say...I was not put on a rigid post-op program. Nor did I have a pre-op diet. I had 12 days Clear liquids, a little less than one month puree, then the surgeon/dietitian said I could start adding soft foods in as I felt ready, and advance to a normal diet...as I felt ready. My surgeon has done thousands of surgeries, and the complication rate at Mayo is minimal. If they feel that I can progress as I'm ready...I'll trust them. But, sometimes I also need some advice. I don't want to email the dietitian or call the surgical service every time I want to try something new. For example, popcorn isn't listed in my book. I haven't wanted any, but I have no idea when it's safe to eat, so I look to others who have had this surgery for advice.

With so many doctors having so many different plans, you can surely understand why people get confused. Why is it that this person can eat crackers and cheese sticks at 2 weeks out, but another person is told by their doctor they need to wait 2 months? It really makes little sense--since the surgery is basically done the same way in every hospital.

Now, Mayo is a HUGE medical institution, known worldwide. If they don't give me a "strict plan" to follow, imagine how many other sleevers, who had their surgeries elsewhere, are in the same boat! Maybe a newbie posts about wanting to eat popcorn or they have a question about WLS friendly fast food options-- it could be because they honestly were not told and did not know. There have been a lot of times I've had questions about certain foods--just curious when others tried them and how they tolerated--but I really haven't felt absolutely comfortable doing that here. I didn't want to be attacked.

That being said, I truly understand the risks of eating foods early. I've read enough posts on here to realize that leaks happen (how often they happen due to someone progressing their diet too early, I'm not sure, every story that I have read has been because of some sort of doctor error.), but I PERSONALLY feel that a lot of times threads get completely "hijacked" by the same people all the time, telling their horrible (they are absolutely horrible, I can't imagine ever living through such an experience. You ladies and gents are tough!) stories about complications, scaring the original poster half to death or making them feel like they're complete failures, all the while never offering an answer to their question.

We've all been there. We've all made a mistake. We know what it feels like to fail. Instead of reaming the poster out, how about offering some advice or support? Not calling them "nuts" or making them feel worse than they already do?

I don't know, maybe I just had to vent all this out, but it's kind of starting to get to me. Maybe this is a reason there isn't a ton of long-term sleevers on the board? I don't know.[/quote']

I think a lot of it is this.....yes, there are many posts from people who have an honest question about when they can eat salads again, or red meat or cheese or whatnot. But there are just as many posts asking when can one resume eating.... (whatever bad foods got us here in the first place). That's frustrating....watching someone have this surgery and then want to return to their previous lifestyle as soon as possible.

[GeauxForIt 659]

I think a lot of it is this.....yes' date=' there are many posts from people who have an honest question about when they can eat salads again, or red meat or cheese or whatnot. But there are just as many posts asking when can one resume eating.... (whatever bad foods got us here in the first place). That's frustrating....watching someone have this surgery and then want to return to their previous lifestyle as soon as possible.[/quote']

This sums it up perfectly...

[Bos123 221]

I think a lot of it is this.....yes' date=' there are many posts from people who have an honest question about when they can eat salads again, or red meat or cheese or whatnot. But there are just as many posts asking when can one resume eating.... (whatever bad foods got us here in the first place). That's frustrating....watching someone have this surgery and then want to return to their previous lifestyle as soon as possible.[/quote']

Maybe it is frustrating, but keep in mind that some of us are self pay and may not have had the support as some others have had such as counseling or support from a nut. So although these questions may sound stupid or common knowledge to those who were thoroughly educated about it, some have not. Just a thought...

[iggychic 1,405]

FYI---at 2 weeks out I COULD eat chicken. It was pureed' date=' but I could eat it. I was told a puree can be anything as long as it is smooth with no chunks.

I'm sorry, but I just feel a lot of times that the way you respond to people--or mock them is rude.

What do you mean by "time to clean house?" That's not very supportive.[/quote']

LOL umm I had to go because it was time to clean my house (which is sparkling now, thank you for asking). Sheesh don't read so much into peoples posts please!

[iggychic 1,405]

Maybe it is frustrating' date=' but keep in mind that some of us are self pay and may not have had the support as some others have had such as counseling or support from a nut. So although these questions may sound stupid or common knowledge to those who were thoroughly educated about it, some have not. Just a thought...[/quote']

I was self pay. When you pay to have your stomach cut in pieces, you should do a little research.

[GeauxForIt 659]

Maybe it is frustrating' date=' but keep in mind that some of us are self pay and may not have had the support as some others have had such as counseling or support from a nut. So although these questions may sound stupid or common knowledge to those who were thoroughly educated about it, some have not. Just a thought...[/quote']

Anyone who has this surgery KNOWS not to eat Cookies and popcorn during week 1!

[delta_girl 931]

Maybe it is frustrating, but keep in mind that some of us are self pay and may not have had the support as some others have had such as counseling or support from a nut. So although these questions may sound stupid or common knowledge to those who were thoroughly educated about it, some have not. Just a thought...

I would hope that self-education always takes place regardless of what the hospital or surgeon provides. There are enough resources available in the public domain for anyone to learn as much as they want to.

[Butterthebean 8,146]

Maybe it is frustrating' date=' but keep in mind that some of us are self pay and may not have had the support as some others have had such as counseling or support from a nut. So although these questions may sound stupid or common knowledge to those who were thoroughly educated about it, some have not. Just a thought...[/quote']

Being self pay is no excuse for having major surgery without doing research. Anyone can consult with a NUT. Even without insurance. And self pay or not, you can ask your doctor for an eating plan before and after surgery. If he won't give you one you're free to choose another doctor. That's the beauty of self pay.

[Bos123 221]

We all get eating plans before an after. And I bet most self payers do more research than most because we may not have local support. And I never said its ok to eat Cookies and popcorn out right away. All I'm saying is that many people may truly not know the answer to these questions. If you guys can't be compassionate and support in your answers because it frustrates you maybe you should keep on scrolling and let someone else answer the question. I've seen a lot of people come down hard on iggy and others, and dislike her because of her delivery of responses and frankly it's sad because she has a lot of good info to share. People on here and in private groups begin to talk about "sleeve nazis" and how rude they are as opposed to learning from their truly inspiring an sometimes scary experiences. Like I said its just a thought...