Moral Dilemma

[Carlene 12]

Okay, here's the story. My DH has been friends with a certain Mr. P for over 40 years. Mr. P married a woman 14 years older than himself and they have been wed for 35+ years. He is a wonderful husband. Several years ago, Mrs. P developed Parkinson's Disease, which gets progressively worse as time goes on and ravages not only the body, but the mind, as well.

Mrs. P cannot be left alone, so for the last couple of years, Mr P has engaged the services of a caretaker on a daily basis. The caretaker is a nice lady - long since divorced and reasonably attractive.

Mr P feels that the time is very near when he must consider putting his wife in a nursing home. He gets little rest at night, due to her erratic sleep patterns and basically has no life of his own, other than getting out during the day when the caretaker is on duty.

The doctors and the nursing home Mr P is considering have told him that Mrs P is "no longer his wife". I have a problem with that.

To further muddy the waters, Mr P made the remark to my DH recently that he and the caretaker would probably "end up together", whatever that means.

Here is my dilemma. I told my DH this morning that when Mr P puts his wife away, we should invite him out to dinner, etc so that he does not get mired down in grief and guilt. Unless, I said, it includes L (the caretaker). I would never judge Mr P, but I am not prepared to socialize with him and his "girlfriend", knowing he has a wife in a nursing home.

My DH is very upset with my stance. He said that Mr P has been too good a friend for too long and he cannot refuse to go out to dinner with him, just because he wants to bring L along.

I believe in "until death do us part". I believe, as much as I like Mr P, that a sexual relationship with L would be adultery. I would never "preach" at him or against him for making that choice, but I am not comfortable with endorsing it.

My DH could go out with them alone, but eventually he would have to explain my continued absence. He doesn't want to have to do that. He wants me to go along "for him" and be pleasant and keep my mouth shut.

What do ya'll think?

[Mrs Husker 3]

While I feel for Mr P, I would stand your ground. If the relationship does become sexual, that is adultery. I just pray the Mrs P has no idea what Mr P is thinking about L. She is going through hell as it is.

[barbara465 2]

Carlene,

You are in a difficult position, but until you have walked in his shoes, you may not know completely what it is like. In a sense, his wife did leave him a while ago. Not in the physical sense, but in the mental sense. He has probably been grieving her loss for years.

It doesn't mean he doesn't love who she was or what they had together. He must now live in the real world, in some ways without her. It is somewhat like those suffering from Alizemer's (sp). The person they knew, is not the person that is left.

As I was reading the post I knew you were going to say the caretaker and him were now an item. It only seemed natural that it would happen after seeing each other every day and sharing the experience. I know it must be difficult on you as a friend as well as family members.

It sounds like he has honored his wife and his love for her for a very long time. His choice to put her in a nursing home has got to be difficult. How nice for him to receive some support from his friends in what has got to be a devasting decision to make.

Life is very short. We should try to make the best of it, however we can. I believe strongly in the vows that were taken. I also live in the real world. Nothing is to be gained from him depriving himself of a few moments of pleasure in the company of a nice woman. I'm not talking "sex" I'm talking about companionship and sharing the moments of our lives with another.

I side with your DH on this one. I think Mr. P needs your love and support. You can still be his friend, even if you don't agree with his choices.

[lisah25 3]

That is quite the dilema indeed.

First off, the doctors and nurses who told him that she was "no longer his wife" need to be slapped hard. I've watched my MIL for the last 5 years as her husband has slipped further and further into Alzhiemer's, including putting him in a nursing home about a year ago. One of the best examples of "for better or worse" or "Until death do you part" I've seen.

That said, I feel a little different about situations like the one you describe then I would just someone messing around on a healthy spouse. It sounds like he plans to take care of her, and make sure she is OK, and in truth she's in some ways not the wife she was before. I don't think I'd date in his situation, but I might be able to be around them. Esp. if I was close enough to talk to them and tell them that while I valued his friendship, I didn't approve.

Not sure that makes a lot of sense. You are in a tough spot.

[Carlene 12]

Carlene,

You are in a difficult position, but until you have walked in his shoes, you may not know completely what it is like. In a sense, his wife did leave him a while ago. Not in the physical sense, but in the mental sense. He has probably been grieving her loss for years.

Well...that's just it. I sort of have been in his shoes. Before I was married to DH, I was married to a man who developed non-alcoholic liver disease. I took care of him until the day he died. In fact, he died in my arms, on our 25th wedding anniversary.

The last 8 years of our marriage was sexless, due to the liver disease. I was in my early 40's, so this was not exactly what I had signed on for. But I did sign the contract (the marriage license), and I lived up to it 100%. I did not use LDH's (Late Dear Husband's) poor health as an excuse to commit adultery. Nor do I think anyone else should. I'm sorry. I think it's wrong. So don't ask me.

Which brings us to the next problem. Mr P is truly a nice man, and I do want to be his friend. But I am terrified, because he IS such a nice man, that at some point he will ask us, "Do you think what I'm doing is a terrible thing?"

My DH would KILL me if I said "yes". My conscience would kill me if I said "no".

[barbara465 2]

Carlene you are in a difficult situation. You have to go with your heart and what you believe in. However, I do think you can be "true" to your values, while honoring his. If he asks, just say what you said above. Its not in my value system to dishonor my marriage or words to that effect. You don't have to go out of your way to voice your opinion, but if asked ....

I admire your position and your committment to your late husband. I believe as you do, until death do us part. I also know that all of us are human and sometimes loneliness etc. makes us do things not of our making. I worry that Mr. P is lonely and seeks the caretaker's friendship for that reason. Hopefully, she has honorable intentions.

Don't let this drive a wedge between you and DH. There must be a way to be friends without comprimising your principles. I don't see anything wrong with inviting him to dinner without his new companion. If he moves his wife to a nursing home wouldn't the new friend find work with another ill patient? If so, maybe you could invite him to lunch while she is working.

My sister has just told me that her husband is leaving after 40 years of marriage. And of course leaving her for her best friend whose husband died a few years ago. My sister has been ill for most of their marriage. He has stayed with her when most would have left. Now retired, he wants a little bit of happiness. I feel for both of them. I see both of their views. There's no right or wrong in the situation for me. I feel for them both. I do want them to be happy and at peace with whatever they decide. It's difficult at best ....

[Carlene 12]

My sister has just told me that her husband is leaving after 40 years of marriage. And of course leaving her for her best friend whose husband died a few years ago. My sister has been ill for most of their marriage. He has stayed with her when most would have left. Now retired, he wants a little bit of happiness. I feel for both of them. I see both of their views. There's no right or wrong in the situation for me. I feel for them both. I do want them to be happy and at peace with whatever they decide. It's difficult at best ....

How awful for everyone. However, having been widowed myself (twice), I think I'm entitled to say that cheating with your best friend's husband is gutless and beneath contempt. If you have endured great pain yourself, why on earth would you deliberately visit it upon someone you supposedly care about? The "friend" is getting a faithless husband....just exactly what she deserves.

[diane5467 0]

I could see listening to the doctor's advice regarding a medical issue, but he has to obviously KNOW the difference between right and wrong. Marriage is not some new fangled idea. I think he is lonely and making an excuse for taking a "companion." If indeed she is not his wife anymore is he entitled to make decisions regarding her treatment? If he is not her husband, is he in line to recieve her assets and insurance money? Were the vows he took "in sickness and in health," or were they "until sickness do us part?"

I think I would tell him right out and not tiptoe around it. It is what it is.

[green 6]

The arrangements that loving couples who find themselves in these dreadful situations set up with each other are very complex. While I was a single woman I had a woman who was dying of breast cancer send her grieving husband over to my house and my bed. (That I wasn't interested in the latter was my issue. I understood where she was coming from.)

My father had a friend whose wife was bed ridden for years before she finally died. She wanted to know that her husband's needs were being taken care of.

Though these are only two examples I suspect that this happens a lot. Certainly the ailing spouse may wish to continue to exert control over the surviving mate by choosing his or her sexual partner but there may also be a strong element of love involved in this transfer.

Let us look at it this way: the caretaker has proved her mettle by giving good care to the ailing spouse, and she has come to be well known by the spousal pair. It is likely that the mate who is dying will have concerns about the one who will survive and will want to ensure that he is in good hands. (It is my hunch that these feelings are more important to dying women than to dying men, by the way. It's a question of hardwiring. Women are more nurturing.)

Anyhow, all of the above is Green's long-winded way of saying that you might consider investigating a little further before deciding to excommunicate this couple. The future pair-bond of the caregiver and the husband might be the dying wife's deepest wish.

[Malice X Girl 0]

Short and sweet but I wonder how his wife would feel. I mean I know alot of times at that age it becomes about having a companion and not necessarily anything more than that. I know if it were my husband I would want him to have somebody there, especially since he wouldn't be used to being alone.

[green 6]

Yep, that's what I mean. Often these arrangements are made with the collusion of the dying wife. She wants to make sure that her husband will be happy and well looked after upon her death. It is a strange act of generosity but it is an act of generosity all the same.

[Carlene 12]

Short and sweet but I wonder how his wife would feel. I mean I know alot of times at that age it becomes about having a companion and not necessarily anything more than that. I know if it were my husband I would want him to have somebody there, especially since he wouldn't be used to being alone.

The wife is 76 and the husband is 62. She is not dying, per say. She has Parkinson's Disease and has broken both hips in the last year, but has just about recovered from those. Her short term memory is often out to lunch. Mr P found his cell phone in the refrigerator one day. And Mrs P once mistook the cedar chest for the toilet, raised the lid and peed on the winter blankets. Other than that, she's fine (LOL).

Mr P is a millionaire, but none of it is community property. There is something about the caregiver that sets my antenna off, but maybe it's just me. Mr P loaned her money ($2000) to buy a computer and a digital camera. Six months later they were "stolen", so he gave her money for another. He loaned her the price of a brand new car (her credit is crap). A good bit of money ($400) came up missing from her wallet and she said Mrs P must have taken it, so Mr P replaced the funds.

The thing with the cedar chest happened when Mr P was not at home. The caregiver told him about it. She was washing the last of the blankets when he came home. The cell phone went missing, they looked all over for it, then suddenly it appeared in the fridge and it was assumed that Mrs P had put it there.

It sounds like the plot of a bad movie, I know. But I can't help wondering....could this be a set up?

[green 6]

Now that you have given us more info, the caretaker is starting to sound a little sinister.

[lisah25 3]

I would wonder about the caretaker and her motives a lot more then the fact there is a relationship between them.

You might think about any way you could quietly check her out?

[Carlene 12]

Now that you have given us more info, the caretaker is starting to sound a little sinister.

I was trying to be objective. I don't know if it's just me or not. The caregiver has gone from living hand to mouth to having a shot at being a millionaire's girlfriend, so I don't know. Is that motive, or just good fortune?