Let the Joyous news be spread: New Jersey votes yes on Gay civil union!

[green 6]

Though I really don't care what happens to the odious preacher Haggard, Sunta does raise an interesting point in her post.

I have always had gay friends ever since I was a teenager and that was a long, long time ago. These are individuals who have told me that they have known that they were different from a very young age. Most of them peg this sense of awareness from when they were between 4 and 6 years old. I was not, therefore, surprised when the results of various studies indicated that homosexuality is an issue of nature, not nurture. Homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice.

Our teenage years are probably the most painful years of our lives. All teenagers want, desparately want to blend in with their peers. There really isn't any room for any of the oddballs; the fatties, the shrimps, the financially disenfranchised, and those who are too bright and those who aren't bright enough are not welcome in teensville. No gay kid is going to feel good about his or her orientation during those years.

Moreover, the chances are high that the kid is not going to feel comfortable at home. Even the most liberal families have their hopes, eh. They are assuming that their kids will eventually marry and produce the next generation. If the kid's family is more conservative, well, his agony is that much worse.

I spent today hanging with an older friend who is homosexual. He was married and he has two adult children. He was telling me about a guy he knew who came out to his family, was beaten up by his father and then thrown down a flight of stairs.

Teenagers do commit suicide when they feel that they are different and that this difference is too painful to deal with. This may not hinge upon the issue of their sexual orientation. Teenagers do get bullied and marginalized for other reasons. But certainly no one chooses to be gay. It is too much work and too much heartbreak.

[Carlene 12]

I saw firsthand a life unfold that was, I am positive, gay from its very conception. A family who lived across the street from me for 25 years produced 4 sons. They were good Catholics. We went to the same church. Our kids attended the same schools. Three of their boys were as straight and unruly as any hetro male could be. Patrick, their 3rd son, was obviously different.

I think I knew Patrick was gay even before he did. Before he had any sexual orientation at all. It was so obvious. More than anything else, Patrick wanted to be a cheerleader, but our school district didn't have boy cheerleaders. He practiced cheers in the front yard anyway and was ridiculed by all the other children.

Every Halloween, Patrick dressed up like a girl. Sometimes he was a torch singer, or a Vegas show girl, or one year, a pregnant ballerina. By high school he was every girl's favorite girlfriend. But the boys detested him and made his life miserable. They smeared hate messages on his car and his parents' driveway.

Patrick was a promising gymnastics star in junior high and high school, but he eventually grew too big to compete on a serious scale. He turned to acting and modeling. He even worked for a time as a male stripper.

He was in college when he got sick. He died at age 20 from AIDS. His parents never accepted Patrick's lifestyle. They never understood why he didn't just conform. It would have been so much easier, they said. They just never got it.

[green 6]

Carlene, one of my best friends, we've been friends since university, was raised in a Catholic working class home. He is very, very bright. He spent his high school years in a Catholic boys' school on scholarships. His mum came around to understanding and accepting him, as did his brother and his sister. His blue collar father never did. This is a very bright and sensitive man, and a man who has three university degrees. I would say that he operates with much more ethical clarity and with more kindness than I do and yet the guy is gay. This means that for many people his value can be discounted.

[carol134 0]

I say we outlaw Brittany Spears altogether.

And don't forget her DH

[Carlene 12]

And don't forget her DH

And her DH.....FED EX

[silverthread 0]

Whenever I use my headset to talk on my cell, I always talk very quietly so noone really hears me. When I see people talking ont heir cell loudly in a public place, it's so obnoxious looking.

I do use my cell phone alot though, but I have many demanding friends who call all the time (lucky me!)

one in seven people have hearing problems. It is often likely when you hear someone talking loudly on their cell phone that they have a hearing problem. Not always of course but often enough..

Laine:)

[BJean 16]

I don't have a hearing problem but sometimes when I have poor reception during a cell call, I will talk louder thinking it will make them talk louder. That's oblivious behavior mind you. Now that they put up more cell towers in our 'hood it isn't a problem. My DH practically yells into his phone because he always has music blasting in his car. Are we getting old... or what?

[silverthread 0]

Though I really don't care what happens to the odious preacher Haggard, Sunta does raise an interesting point in her post.

I have always had gay friends ever since I was a teenager and that was a long, long time ago. These are individuals who have told me that they have known that they were different from a very young age. Most of them peg this sense of awareness from when they were between 4 and 6 years old. I was not, therefore, surprised when the results of various studies indicated that homosexuality is an issue of nature, not nurture. Homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice.

Our teenage years are probably the most painful years of our lives. All teenagers want, desparately want to blend in with their peers. There really isn't any room for any of the oddballs; the fatties, the shrimps, the financially disenfranchised, and those who are too bright and those who aren't bright enough are not welcome in teensville. No gay kid is going to feel good about his or her orientation during those years.

Moreover, the chances are high that the kid is not going to feel comfortable at home. Even the most liberal families have their hopes, eh. They are assuming that their kids will eventually marry and produce the next generation. If the kid's family is more conservative, well, his agony is that much worse.

I spent today hanging with an older friend who is homosexual. He was married and he has two adult children. He was telling me about a guy he knew who came out to his family, was beaten up by his father and then thrown down a flight of stairs.

Teenagers do commit suicide when they feel that they are different and that this difference is too painful to deal with. This may not hinge upon the issue of their sexual orientation. Teenagers do get bullied and marginalized for other reasons. But certainly no one chooses to be gay. It is too much work and too much heartbreak.

IMHO this is the most thought provoking answer yet on the subject of gays.

Thank goodness there are people like you amongst us.

Laine:)

[silverthread 0]

I would just like to add to my quote in the previous message.

May I ask all those who are anti gay what they would do if their adorable much loved child they reared turned out to be gay. What would you do ?Throw them out of your home and forget them?

Try to make them heterosexual thus ensuring a miserable existence in case they lose your love?????

I happen to know a man who was so anti gay who found out his loving kind hearted hard working grandson was gay. Did it change the grandfathers views on gay people. I'll say it did. Love, you see, changes everthing.

Laine

[Carlene 12]

You would be in some pretty good company. Cher has been very supportive of her Lesbian daughter.

[BJean 16]

My son and his DW have identical (yes, IDENTICAL) twin boys. Her high risk pregnancy doctor suggested she "start over" when they discovered she had TTTS syndrom. She, my son and I went to Milwaukee where she had surgery when she was in her 20th month of pregnancy in order to save them.

They are now 4 year old happy, healthy rambunctious boys. They live in California. They came home to Texas for a visit not long ago and all my DH's family came over for a cook out. DH has 5 brothers and sisters. All very Texan, like their parents. Well, you could have heard a pin drop at 100 paces when one of the twins came downstairs all dressed in our granddaughter's Cinderella gown, tiara and plastic high heels. He proceeded to wear this outfit all day. The wide-eyed silence was extremely awkward.

My son and his DH decided long ago (this all started when the boys were about 2) that if he is gay, there's nothing they can do to change that. If he is only play acting, why should they tell them that dressing as a girl is BAD and WRONG? I feel bad for my grandson because I see the looks he gets from his very own grandparents and aunts and uncles.

All of us wonder if he is gay and we wonder if his identical twin brother is too. We've heard that in Europe this role playing and gender bending with children is very common there and no one thinks a thing about it. How refreshing that must be!

Another interesting twist to this little tale is that DH's mother had a cousin who was single and spent a lot of time with the family over holidays, etc. Get this... he was in interior design, never married and ate, walked and talked in a very feminine way. No one ever, I mean EVER, broached the subject of the possiblity that he might be homosexual. When I asked my husband if his uncle was gay, he looked at me like I'd asked if the Pope was Catholic. I actually took for granted that he was gay. It took me a long time to figure out that many Texans just don't accept or discuss homosexuality. We also don't discuss that blight on American cinema "Brokeback Mountain."

If there is anyone here who is gay and can give me advice on dealing with DH's family regarding my beautiful grandson, I'd love to hear it.

[Carlene 12]

If there is anyone here who is gay and can give me advice on dealing with DH's family regarding my beautiful grandson, I'd love to hear it.

I'm not gay and I don't have gay children, but I have a friend whose son loved to dress up in girl's clothes when he was 3-5 years old. He's in his 20's now and we love to tease him about it. His mom has some great photos, too. But he's not gay.

I wouldn't worry about this "cross-dressing" or consider it an indication that your grandson might be gay. First of all, gay men and cross-dressing men are two different things. Secondly, a lot of little boys like to dress up. Maybe Cinderella was what was handy, but he might just as soon have been Superman. My middle son loved costumes. His brother used to beg me not to let Patrick wear his Underoo outfits outside the house.

By the way, statistically only 52% of gay identical twins have gay twin brothers.

[Carlene 12]

It took me a long time to figure out that many Texans just don't accept or discuss homosexuality. We also don't discuss that blight on American cinema "Brokeback Mountain."

I loved "Brokeback Mountain". It was a fantastic love story. I drug my DH to see it. The fact that he went is a huge testimony to his love for me...LOL

We were surprised at the number of couples (man/woman couples) in the audience and the distinct absence of gay couples.

My husband has a friend who is originally from Wyoming. He takes "Brokeback Mountain" as a personal affront to his manhood and refuses to see it.

Homosexuality in Texas is not exactly well-received, that's for sure. Young gay men (high school age) are still extremely reluctant to come out of the closet. My stepdaughter has a gay stepson. Everyone could tell except his dad. It was the 800 pound elephant in the room. Finally, he came out when he was in his 20's. His very macho dad had a really hard time with it. Now he refers to Dustin as "living an alternative lifestyle". Once in a while he will crack a joke. At some family dinner my DIL said she was terrified that her son and his girlfriend would have sex and the girl would get pregnant. Dustin's dad said, "Not all of us would consider a pregnant girlfriend a BAD thing, you know."

[KariK 0]

Carlene, how do you see broke back mountain as a love story when you are vehimently opposed to cheating while married? Just curious. I read the other thread about your friend whose wife has the parkinsons disease. I would have approved of broke back mountain more if they hadn't had wives, that was the part that really bothered me.

[anonemouse 1]

Personally, I can reconcile my beliefs with whatever I may watch in a movie. I recognize that it isn't reality. I don't believe stealing is right, but I still loved The Italian Job. Take a movie as what it is supposed to be: entertainment.