For Distance Runners

[Fiddleman 4,376]

As for longer term event goals ( next year?), I have been thinking more and more about ultra marathon trail runs.

Have anyone of you done these before? I think it is possible in my future because I have a pretty good endurance and stamina when running hills and distance with my training so far. Getting better every day as I push my fitness levels in new ways. I have hiked 50 miles in a day before when younger ( high school).

I would like to get out there and run a huge distance over the ups and down of a trail like the PCT between Stevens and snoqualmi pass. I've seen runners do this before when out back packing the trail. It is 72 miles from end to end and goes up and down between 4000 and 7500 feet. I think it could be done in a day with the right training and preparation. I am very familiar with the trail as hiked it many times. The biggest unknown to me is how one would fuel and drink along the way, especial since it will be an isolated run. Another trail to run would be wonderland around mount Rainer. However, I am not familiar with it so well. I would prefer to pick a trail that I can easily visualize from end to end in order to systematically prepare both physically and mentally.

I have already read the popular ultra marathon books that are usually recommended. I would also want to work regular shorter day trail runs into my training like mount si ( 8 miles round, +- 4000 feet) or a slightly longer one like tiger mountain from I18 to I90, 22 miles round) to start out with. Need to research this more to determine how to train for a trail ultra marathon.

[danyelleb 386]

How's everyone doing these days? If you are anything like me' date=' it's the start of the season. I have a triathlon this weekend, a trail half marathon the next weekend, another triathlon the weekend following and then two weeks from that I have a full marathon. So if you don't hear from me again, remember that it was I that decide to kill myself by booking so many races back-to-back-to-back-to-back! Good luck everyone.[/quote']

Hi guys! I have a 10 miler on the 21st and on the 27th is the first of six trail half marathons. Ill be doing one a month for awhile. Im completing a ultra trail half marathon series. there are certain trail halves that are designated as "ultra" due to serious elevation changes and rugged terrain. I double up events in June, July, and August- yay summer break!! I'm looking forward to the start of the season as well. Currently I'm road tripping through Oregon while on spring break. Last night was a slice of pizza at old town and part of a donut from voodoo! good thing I'm not running- food has been crap, but oh so fun!! Normalcy returns Monday.

Good luck guys on ur upcoming events! Pdxman - u will be back to itself before u know it!

Take care!

[massindex 346]

Heh, that's awesome. Running in a wet suit gets you the title "scuba man" in the papers. I like to run shirtless because I usually sweat up a flood anyways.

So the process is that in Water up to 78 degrees, you can wear a wetsuit. Under the wetsuit I wear my tri-suit, which is a one-piece combimation of bike shorts and a race singlet. Under that I usually have compression clothing. When you come out of the water, you strip the wetsuit off, jump on the bike and start the bike portion, When you finish the bike, you run, all of this in the tri-suit. Sprint tri's are only 5K runs, Olympic distance is a 10K run, 70.3's involve a half marathon run and 140.6's involve a full marathon. Try it one time with a Sprint Tri. All the different training requirements breaks up the training monotony of a single event.

[Butterthebean 8,146]

As for longer term event goals ( next year?), I have been thinking more and more about ultra marathon trail runs.

Have anyone of you done these before? I think it is possible in my future because I have a pretty good endurance and stamina when running hills and distance with my training so far. Getting better every day as I push my fitness levels in new ways. I have hiked 50 miles in a day before when younger ( high school).

I would like to get out there and run a huge distance over the ups and down of a trail like the PCT between Stevens and snoqualmi pass. I've seen runners do this before when out back packing the trail. It is 72 miles from end to end and goes up and down between 4000 and 7500 feet. I think it could be done in a day with the right training and preparation. I am very familiar with the trail as hiked it many times. The biggest unknown to me is how one would fuel and drink along the way, especial since it will be an isolated run. Another trail to run would be wonderland around mount Rainer. However, I am not familiar with it so well. I would prefer to pick a trail that I can easily visualize from end to end in order to systematically prepare both physically and mentally.

I have already read the popular ultra marathon books that are usually recommended. I would also want to work regular shorter day trail runs into my training like mount si ( 8 miles round, +- 4000 feet) or a slightly longer one like tiger mountain from I18 to I90, 22 miles round) to start out with. Need to research this more to determine how to train for a trail ultra marathon.

Check out this book if you haven't already...

http://www.amazon.com/Never-Wipe-Your-Squirrel-ebook/dp/B00C2CGS8W/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

It's by Jason Robillard who is a barefoot running blogger. The book is all about running trail ultras. Not a literary masterpiece, but straightforward with a touch of humor.

[does not matter 39]

Hey guys. I have quietly been following in the background as I'm no where near where you guys are. However, I am lost, and need some help.

A little background info: Surgery in Puerto Vallarta on Jan 21st

HW: 274.5, Pre-op Weight: 261.4, SW: 239.8, CW: 218.6 (Clearly a slow loser, but have lost a lot of inches and had a 4 weeks stall early out)

I have signed up for a 10k race Sept 22

I finished the 5k runner app, and can currently run for an hour including a 5 min warm up and 5 min cool down (My 50 min is my max, and cant push past that right now, seem to lose my steam around the 30 min mark)

However, I am not a fast runner like most of you. I am up to 6.61km in 60 min. I was running this 3-4 times a week and have been researching this past weekend and read that I should be doing ONE long run a week and the rest shorter, slower, and some interval training. (I also do cardio kick boxing once a week)

So this past week I have lost 0 after running 27k

The previous week I ran 25k and lost 1.6

I would really like to see the scale move, my goal would be 170? If i could get there I'd be happy. I was 185-190 when I worked out and lost 100 pounds before and I was fairly happy with that and could never get any lower without starving myself. If I went any lower than 170 (based on my 185-190) I think I might start to look a little sick

Here's where I need help. I think I've obviously entered the "starvation" area. I burn 650-700 calories each time I run or do cardio kickboxing. I eat lets say 1100 calories a day, get 80+grams of Protein and strive for 2L+ of Water a day. My BMR is roughly 1785. I clearly in a calorie deficit and running my ass off but the scale is refusing to move with the work I'm putting in. The inches went down mostly 0.25 of a inch (went up that much in a few spots too) but hips -0.75 and thighs -0.5 in 2 weeks.

What do you guys think in terms of calories for what I'm doing? I work out 4-5 days a week.

Re-adjusting now for 2-3 shorter easier runs (or 2 runs and 1 walk), 1 long run trying to increase 0.5k every week or even 2 weeks, and then cardio kickboxing once a week (I also do some weights after that), and I also do a warm up and short workout with the kids I teach twice a week (mostly arms and abs)

My specialist (retired surgeon) told me NOT to go into starvation mode when I met him after I got back from surgery and here I am finding myself smack dab in the middle of it... but how do you eat more!? ( I mean I could with no problem) but doesnt that defeat the purpose of the surgery? I am 11 weeks out and eating 1100 calories as it is (I was at 800 and had headaches, specialist said it was too little for me and to move to 1000 calories, problems solved when I did) But I am scared to increase the calories anymore....like I already think I eat too many calories compared to most people at 11 weeks out!

What are your opinions!?

I also tried to order those energy squares but it was 26.00 shipping to Canada... if I go to the states I will order and ship it there (thats a 2 hour event) since shipping is much more reasonable... any other suggestions on what to eat mid run during the long runs? Should I just drink some chocolate milk?

Thanks for any info! It is much appreciated. I don't go see the specialist until the 23rd..It's so confusing since everything talks about loading up on carbs... so I'm kind of lost. Yesterday I burnt just shy of 2500 calories and ate not even 1100... I am not sure what I should be doing at all so frustrated, and want the scale to move!

[Butterthebean 8,146]

Hey guys. I have quietly been following in the background as I'm no where near where you guys are. However' date=' I am lost, and need some help.

A little background info: Surgery in Puerto Vallarta on Jan 21st

HW: 274.5, Pre-op Weight: 261.4, SW: 239.8, CW: 218.6 (Clearly a slow loser, but have lost a lot of inches and had a 4 weeks stall early out)

I have signed up for a 10k race Sept 22

I finished the 5k runner app, and can currently run for an hour including a 5 min warm up and 5 min cool down (My 50 min is my max, and cant push past that right now, seem to lose my steam around the 30 min mark)

However, I am not a fast runner like most of you. I am up to 6.61km in 60 min. I was running this 3-4 times a week and have been researching this past weekend and read that I should be doing ONE long run a week and the rest shorter, slower, and some interval training. (I also do cardio kick boxing once a week)

So this past week I have lost 0 after running 27k

The previous week I ran 25k and lost 1.6

I would really like to see the scale move, my goal would be 170? If i could get there I'd be happy. I was 185-190 when I worked out and lost 100 pounds before and I was fairly happy with that and could never get any lower without starving myself. If I went any lower than 170 (based on my 185-190) I think I might start to look a little sick

Here's where I need help. I think I've obviously entered the "starvation" area. I burn 650-700 calories each time I run or do cardio kickboxing. I eat lets say 1100 calories a day, get 80+grams of Protein and strive for 2L+ of Water a day. My BMR is roughly 1785. I clearly in a calorie deficit and running my ass off but the scale is refusing to move with the work I'm putting in. The inches went down mostly 0.25 of a inch (went up that much in a few spots too) but hips -0.75 and thighs -0.5 in 2 weeks.

What do you guys think in terms of calories for what I'm doing? I work out 4-5 days a week.

Re-adjusting now for 2-3 shorter easier runs (or 2 runs and 1 walk), 1 long run trying to increase 0.5k every week or even 2 weeks, and then cardio kickboxing once a week (I also do some weights after that), and I also do a warm up and short workout with the kids I teach twice a week (mostly arms and abs)

My specialist (retired surgeon) told me NOT to go into starvation mode when I met him after I got back from surgery and here I am finding myself smack dab in the middle of it... but how do you eat more!? ( I mean I could with no problem) but doesnt that defeat the purpose of the surgery? I am 11 weeks out and eating 1100 calories as it is (I was at 800 and had headaches, specialist said it was too little for me and to move to 1000 calories, problems solved when I did) But I am scared to increase the calories anymore....like I already think I eat too many calories compared to most people at 11 weeks out!

What are your opinions!?

I also tried to order those energy squares but it was 26.00 shipping to Canada... if I go to the states I will order and ship it there (thats a 2 hour event) since shipping is much more reasonable... any other suggestions on what to eat mid run during the long runs? Should I just drink some chocolate milk?

Thanks for any info! It is much appreciated. I don't go see the specialist until the 23rd..It's so confusing since everything talks about loading up on carbs... so I'm kind of lost. Yesterday I burnt just shy of 2500 calories and ate not even 1100... I am not sure what I should be doing at all so frustrated, and want the scale to move![/quote']

Howdy.....I'm a slow runner myself. I average 12-13 minute miles. It's hard to get much slower than that. I'm going to start working on my speed very soon but for now I'm just focused on good form and building up a solid endurance base. Plus running slower and keeping your heart rate lower keeps you more in a fat burning zone and less in a glycogen (sugar) burning zone. So don't feel bad about being slow. I'm with you.

As for the calories and weight loss, I totally get it. I'm currently training for a half marathon and I can tell you to a certainty that my training schedule is not even close to a weight loss routine. Extremely long runs, followed by rest day, eating more to fuel the runs....it goes against my grain. I've been focused on nothing but weight loss for so long that this plan has been hard. But I have a goal of finishing this distance so I've been willing to put the weight loss on hold temporarily...and hold it has. I haven't lost a pound in over a month. It's just the nature of this kind of training program versus a weight loss program. You can do both, but it's not easy.

If you want a good training program, check out www.halhigdon.com

They have training schedules for every distance you might aspire to run. Pick one of their plans and follow it and you won't go wrong. And yes, sometimes you do have to up your calories to fuel the longer runs. It does seem like it goes against what we are trying to do. But if you get out on a 10K run and run out of gas, that is a miserable feeling.

BTW, for upping calories I prefer nut butters. Pocket Fuel is my current favorite running "gel". Less sugar than most runners gels and is made from almond butter.

[massindex 346]

Hey guys. I have quietly been following in the background as I'm no where near where you guys are. However, I am lost, and need some help.

A little background info: Surgery in Puerto Vallarta on Jan 21st

HW: 274.5, Pre-op Weight: 261.4, SW: 239.8, CW: 218.6 (Clearly a slow loser, but have lost a lot of inches and had a 4 weeks stall early out)

I have signed up for a 10k race Sept 22

I finished the 5k runner app, and can currently run for an hour including a 5 min warm up and 5 min cool down (My 50 min is my max, and cant push past that right now, seem to lose my steam around the 30 min mark)

However, I am not a fast runner like most of you. I am up to 6.61km in 60 min. I was running this 3-4 times a week and have been researching this past weekend and read that I should be doing ONE long run a week and the rest shorter, slower, and some interval training. (I also do cardio kick boxing once a week)

So this past week I have lost 0 after running 27k

The previous week I ran 25k and lost 1.6

I would really like to see the scale move, my goal would be 170? If i could get there I'd be happy. I was 185-190 when I worked out and lost 100 pounds before and I was fairly happy with that and could never get any lower without starving myself. If I went any lower than 170 (based on my 185-190) I think I might start to look a little sick

Here's where I need help. I think I've obviously entered the "starvation" area. I burn 650-700 calories each time I run or do cardio kickboxing. I eat lets say 1100 calories a day, get 80+grams of Protein and strive for 2L+ of Water a day. My BMR is roughly 1785. I clearly in a calorie deficit and running my ass off but the scale is refusing to move with the work I'm putting in. The inches went down mostly 0.25 of a inch (went up that much in a few spots too) but hips -0.75 and thighs -0.5 in 2 weeks.

What do you guys think in terms of calories for what I'm doing? I work out 4-5 days a week.

Re-adjusting now for 2-3 shorter easier runs (or 2 runs and 1 walk), 1 long run trying to increase 0.5k every week or even 2 weeks, and then cardio kickboxing once a week (I also do some weights after that), and I also do a warm up and short workout with the kids I teach twice a week (mostly arms and abs)

My specialist (retired surgeon) told me NOT to go into starvation mode when I met him after I got back from surgery and here I am finding myself smack dab in the middle of it... but how do you eat more!? ( I mean I could with no problem) but doesnt that defeat the purpose of the surgery? I am 11 weeks out and eating 1100 calories as it is (I was at 800 and had headaches, specialist said it was too little for me and to move to 1000 calories, problems solved when I did) But I am scared to increase the calories anymore....like I already think I eat too many calories compared to most people at 11 weeks out!

What are your opinions!?

I also tried to order those energy squares but it was 26.00 shipping to Canada... if I go to the states I will order and ship it there (thats a 2 hour event) since shipping is much more reasonable... any other suggestions on what to eat mid run during the long runs? Should I just drink some chocolate milk?

Thanks for any info! It is much appreciated. I don't go see the specialist until the 23rd..It's so confusing since everything talks about loading up on carbs... so I'm kind of lost. Yesterday I burnt just shy of 2500 calories and ate not even 1100... I am not sure what I should be doing at all so frustrated, and want the scale to move!

Your body becomes a creature of habit and if you go into starvation mode, it will hold on to every calorie it can find. Dr. Oz had some good advice one day. He said you body needs a state of confusion. This applies to your food and your exercise routine also. Try upping you intake every third or fourth day to 2,000 calories (smart calories and not fat calories). Also, change up your exercise routine. If you are only running, adding a day or two of swimming or biking. Keep it aerobic though. While weight training can be beneficial, you probably don't want to lose the edge you are building up with your endurance. Don't worry about your speed. As long as your heart rate is accelerated and in an optimal zone, you are doing fine. Also look at it this way. What's the alternative? Six feet under?

[Fiddleman 4,376]

can do both' date=' but it's not easy.

[/quote']

How would a person do both? That is to say, train hard and do well losing weight week over week per WLS goals. The nature of training hard requires eating lot of Protein and good carbs.

Like you I have not lost a lb in 1 month. Wait, it is April now. Make that 2 months. I know I am building up lean muscle, but it would be encouraging to see the scale show some kind of life. Maybe I need to go super low carb again to cut another 10 lbs of fat while also preserving and building muscle.

Or add a fat burner into my supplementation stack. I am already pretty lean ( not skinny), but would like to lean out a little more in the waist so I can work towards my goal of having an athletic physique ( think: inverted triangle shape with powerful chest). GNC has a million fat burners to choose from.

[Fiddleman 4,376]

Also, one approach that has helped me with improving 5 k run time and explosive power is executing something like the following 1 x a week.

1. Run 5 k @ x mph at some y% incline. Pretty fast, but the goal is to put in about 50% effort. For example, I start at 6.0 and .5% incline.

2. Every 10 minutes, increase speed by .2 mph and incline by .5%

3. When done, jump off tread mill and do a quick upper body strength workout. Feel the pump. Feel the burn. Feel the sweat. You might also do 20 squats to keep your lower body going.

4. Jump on ellyptical or perhaps rower or bike and do a 15 minutes interval session at 70% effort or more. Make sure you are doing HIIT on this so you keep your heart rate elevated and your body guessing.

5. Do the upper body pump again for 5 minutes. More squats, but this time with weights. For example, I use 20 lb barbells when I do the 20 squats. It really helps strengthen the inner thigh area and good overall core target.

6. Jump on the treadmill and alternate between running really fast for a min (sprint almost to hyperventilating) and running on a hill for a min for 10 minutes. Make sure you keep your body guessing on this step. For me, 5.8 mph on 6.0% hill and 8.0 mph on .5% hill. Make sure you are pushing pushing and pushing. Grunt, breath hard, make noise. You should feel on the edge of ability with this step, but do keep form as not to get injured. Keeping pushing through it and make it harder every time you try this step.

7. Run another 5 k in x minutes at 2% incline at a decent speed. For example, I run at about 6.6 mph and 2 % incline. I modulate a little over the 5 k distance, but this step is raw cardio. This should not feel that hard as by this point as it is the easiest part of the HIIT run workout.

8 sprint all out last quarter mile. For me this is about 9.0 mph. Another huge push moment.

7. Cool down with 5 min jog / walk. Feel the endorphins.

8. Get a towel and soak up the sweat.

Other 2 runs during the week are more strictly about 5 k and 10 k race times. Like step 7 above. Just started adding a weekend long run that is greater than 10 k. No set distance, but am working it up longer and longer over time. I do this HIIT conditioning to not only improve my running, but also to prepare myself for the next day cross fit session.

[danyelleb 386]

Hey guys. I have quietly been following in the background as I'm no where near where you guys are. However' date=' I am lost, and need some help.

A little background info: Surgery in Puerto Vallarta on Jan 21st

HW: 274.5, Pre-op Weight: 261.4, SW: 239.8, CW: 218.6 (Clearly a slow loser, but have lost a lot of inches and had a 4 weeks stall early out)

I have signed up for a 10k race Sept 22

I finished the 5k runner app, and can currently run for an hour including a 5 min warm up and 5 min cool down (My 50 min is my max, and cant push past that right now, seem to lose my steam around the 30 min mark)

However, I am not a fast runner like most of you. I am up to 6.61km in 60 min. I was running this 3-4 times a week and have been researching this past weekend and read that I should be doing ONE long run a week and the rest shorter, slower, and some interval training. (I also do cardio kick boxing once a week)

So this past week I have lost 0 after running 27k

The previous week I ran 25k and lost 1.6

I would really like to see the scale move, my goal would be 170? If i could get there I'd be happy. I was 185-190 when I worked out and lost 100 pounds before and I was fairly happy with that and could never get any lower without starving myself. If I went any lower than 170 (based on my 185-190) I think I might start to look a little sick

Here's where I need help. I think I've obviously entered the "starvation" area. I burn 650-700 calories each time I run or do cardio kickboxing. I eat lets say 1100 calories a day, get 80+grams of Protein and strive for 2L+ of Water a day. My BMR is roughly 1785. I clearly in a calorie deficit and running my ass off but the scale is refusing to move with the work I'm putting in. The inches went down mostly 0.25 of a inch (went up that much in a few spots too) but hips -0.75 and thighs -0.5 in 2 weeks.

What do you guys think in terms of calories for what I'm doing? I work out 4-5 days a week.

Re-adjusting now for 2-3 shorter easier runs (or 2 runs and 1 walk), 1 long run trying to increase 0.5k every week or even 2 weeks, and then cardio kickboxing once a week (I also do some weights after that), and I also do a warm up and short workout with the kids I teach twice a week (mostly arms and abs)

My specialist (retired surgeon) told me NOT to go into starvation mode when I met him after I got back from surgery and here I am finding myself smack dab in the middle of it... but how do you eat more!? ( I mean I could with no problem) but doesnt that defeat the purpose of the surgery? I am 11 weeks out and eating 1100 calories as it is (I was at 800 and had headaches, specialist said it was too little for me and to move to 1000 calories, problems solved when I did) But I am scared to increase the calories anymore....like I already think I eat too many calories compared to most people at 11 weeks out!

What are your opinions!?

I also tried to order those energy squares but it was 26.00 shipping to Canada... if I go to the states I will order and ship it there (thats a 2 hour event) since shipping is much more reasonable... any other suggestions on what to eat mid run during the long runs? Should I just drink some chocolate milk?

Thanks for any info! It is much appreciated. I don't go see the specialist until the 23rd..It's so confusing since everything talks about loading up on carbs... so I'm kind of lost. Yesterday I burnt just shy of 2500 calories and ate not even 1100... I am not sure what I should be doing at all so frustrated, and want the scale to move![/quote']

Hi ya! It looks like u have already gotten a lot of good advice. I agree with mass about switching up ur cals every now and then. It looks like u r doing lots of physical activity for someone so freshly sleeved. U definitely need cals to sustain that much exercise. I slowed a couple of times when trying to lose. I found that the scale would move after either after a hard run or hard hike coupled with an increase in water. I didn't really play with my cals too much (not that I remember anyways). Well actually, I did increase my cals in the beginning but I was not consuming anything over 800 cals for awhile. Stay the course and keep at it with the exercise ur body will supposedly let go of the lbs eventually if u are creating a calorie deficit.

[does not matter 39]

Awesome thanks for all the tips and suggestions guys

[Butterthebean 8,146]

How would a person do both? That is to say' date=' train hard and do well losing weight week over week per WLS goals. The nature of training hard requires eating lot of Protein and good carbs.

Like you I have not lost a lb in 1 month. Wait, it is April now. Make that 2 months. I know I am building up lean muscle, but it would be encouraging to see the scale show some kind of life. Maybe I need to go super low carb again to cut another 10 lbs of fat while also preserving and building muscle.

Or add a fat burner into my supplementation stack. I am already pretty lean ( not skinny), but would like to lean out a little more in the waist so I can work towards my goal of having an athletic physique ( think: inverted triangle shape with powerful chest). GNC has a million fat burners to choose from.[/quote']

I think it would involve some cycling. Not bicycling, but cycle your training. One week hardcore performance training, high calorie intake. The next week cut calories and do what you can with the limited intake. It does not sound fun and frankly is a little to extreme for me right now. I'm enjoying what I'm doing. As soon as I don't enjoy it, it will be much harder to continue.

[does not matter 39]

I dont think the cycling will work... I have tried and tried and tried before, but the seats hurt my a$$... I have tried piling on the towels for padding but to no avail can I get it to work. I wanted to try the spin classes way back when.. no luck! I cant even manage for 30 seconds.

[Butterthebean 8,146]

I dont think the cycling will work... I have tried and tried and tried before' date=' but the seats hurt my a... I have tried piling on the towels for padding but to no avail can I get it to work. I wanted to try the spin classes way back when.. no luck! I cant even manage for 30 seconds.[/quote']

Huh....if you're referring to my post, I wasn't talking about that kind of cycling, but rather cycle the training methods. But as to your butt pain, have you tried a good pair of cycling shorts with a built in chamois (pad)? A good pair is worth it's weight in gold. I like to throw in some baby powder down there as well. Also, setting your seat to the proper height takes a load off your posterior. A general rule of thumb is with your heel on the pedal, you should just be able to lock out your knee with the pedal at the 6 o'clock position. Then when you move your foot to the proper pedaling position you will not quite be able to lock out the knee. This helps the knees and butt....plus it's most efficient on quads and hamstrings. It's is just a general rule of thumb though, from there you might want to tweak it a bit (1/4") at a time to see what's comfortable for you.

[does not matter 39]

oh my bad lol I thought you were talking about cycling lol

I worked at my gym for 5 years while I was in univ. so the instructors tried adjusting the seat height so many times, just didn't work... I could always try the shorts you were talking about tho, that might help for sure! Thanks for the tip, I might give that a go again (I lost 100 pounds before in univ, and then gained it back when I went up north to work) however, I'm working on it!

Thanks again!