School Bully's

[paula 4]

Marcus (my oldest) is 11 and is in 5th grade.

He just had his first physical altercation with a school bully. The 'bully' is also a 5th grader and has had MANY issues with the school. For example, the big issues are destroying school property & theft.. always in trouble!

My boy hasnt ever been in trouble (neither has 95% of the kids in his grade). He goes to a magnet school where the kids have to score a certain level to qualify for this program.. so, 'troubled kids' arent a big issue here.

Anyway, about a month ago the Bully had issues with my daughter - he started calling her names. She was VERY upset (Goodness, she's in K and the Bully's in 5th grade!!) so I consulted the Principal - and she handled the situation.

Things have been calm since then.. until today.

An exchange of words happened between Marcus and Bully. Bully started punching Marcus in the back. Marcus turned and pushed him down - telling him to leave him alone. Bully took Marcus' backpack and flung it across the school yard then went back at Marcus - rolling up his sleeves and started hitting him in the arm!

Everything happened so fast..

Im there to p/u the kids.. Marcus gets in the van upset. He starts telling me the story and showing me the marks on his arm that Bully had just made. I pull to the front of the school and get the principal involved.

So here is where I need LBT's help...

if this were YOUR kid involved in this situation - HOW would you advise him to handle himself IF this happens again? (repeated hits)

Mike and I have talked to Marcus many MANY times about a hypothetical situation of a bully picking on him - and for him to get the bully's attention by good eye contact, and telling him to LEAVE ME ALONE. Standing his ground.

But this was different.

It became physical.

All you Moms/Dads/Educators/Grandparents... what is YOUR advice??

[mousecrazy 2]

Hi, Paula

First of all, there should be an adult somewhere, right? If not, why not?

Second, Bully's behavior has been brought to the attention of the principal on AT LEAST one other occasion, which involved your daughter. Chances are, there are other reports. Go back to the principal, and pursue the school's involvement. Suggest, but don't say you will, that you might pursue involving the police (assault). That ought to get some action.

No one is doing Bully any favors by allowing or ignoring this unacceptable behavior. If this is what he is doing in 5th grade, imagine what is coming. Consider yourself doing him a favor by confronting this now. Perhaps ask for a joint conference with principal and Bully's parents. See what happens.

Sorry you are going through this. For the record, I am totally in favor of kids defending themselves as you have instructed your son. Especially if school personnel are not dealing with bullies.

[housecatgirl 0]

I agree with mousecrazy! Request a meeting and take notes at the meeting. Sugest police invovement if it happens again. You are really doing Bully a favor by letting him and his parents know that his behavior won't be tolerated.

[TexasTerry 0]

There should be an adult around at all times during school. At least it is that way on my campus. I don't know what state you are in, but in Texas by 10 years of age a person is responsible for their actions and can be arrested. (handcuffs in the back of the squad car and all, if needed) If the principle does not want to really get involved, I would not hesitate to call the police myself. It is assault.

I've known principals that don't want to call the police because it gives their campus a bad reputation. Don't let your son get beat up because some 2-bit principal is too hung up on image.

I agree with the joint conference. Let them know you are serious and this behavior is not tolerated.

You must be vigilant about your childrens safety. Don't fully put it in someone else's hands.

Terry

[Moody Coverhous 0]

My daughter was assaulted by one of her class-mates in Junior High. The school did not call me. When I arrived home that night hours later she still had a mark on her neck. I went to the school, talked with the school resource officer (police officer) and insisted on filing assault charges. I also insisted that the school contact me if she was ever assaulted again on school property. She never had another problem. I guess the fine of about $300 got the bully's parents attention and they got their daughter's attention. Also, I taught my daughters how to defend themselves if they were ever attacked.

I'm so sorry your children and you are having to put up with this bully. Hopefully the school will deal with this boy and his problems effectively.

[paula 4]

Thanks y'all!

His Principal is awesome! No doubt that she will properly handle this situation.

Bully has been suspended numerous times.. we just cant figure out WHY he's still enrolled at our school?!

My main concern is over self-defense.

Mike told Marcus that IF this were to ever happen again - he needs to fight back! Bully is much smaller then Marcus - which is why Marcus didnt 'fight back'.

Besides, Marcus is scared to death of 'fighting' - thinking he will get kicked out of the school.

Which brings me back to my original question..

What are you teaching your kids to do regarding these types of bully's?

Fight back?

just ignore the punches?

run and tell an adult?

[missy4gordon 0]

My main concern is over self-defense.

Mike told Marcus that IF this were to ever happen again - he needs to fight back! Bully is much smaller then Marcus - which is why Marcus didnt 'fight back'.

Besides, Marcus is scared to death of 'fighting' - thinking he will get kicked out of the school.

Which brings me back to my original question..

What are you teaching your kids to do regarding these types of bully's?

Fight back?

just ignore the punches?

run and tell an adult?

That is such a good question. I have a 3rd grade boy and can only hope we don't find ourselves in this situation, because I really wouldn't know what the right answer is. I know he would be prone to "being bullied" rather than being "the bully" so I can see it happening the same way for us. He is a really sensative kid, and I don't know if he physically would fight back. I hope to find some insight with people's answers here too.

Great question Paula!

[paula 4]

Mrs. Hughes,

I wanted you to know that I have taken care of the incident and the student has been suspended. I will assign the other student a place at car pick up away from Marcus

UPDATE: I just received this email from our principal. At this point - Im angry! Suspension is the least thing that this boy needs... I like what someone said about insisting on Bully seeking counseling.

Anyway - anymore great advice out there?

[Kirsten117 0]

I am all for him defending himself, whether it's this same bully or another one later on. I have an 11 year old boy also (6th grade). He is a big kid for his age, and was bully'd by a smaller but older boy when he was in the 3rd grade. From day one, I told him he was allowed to defend himself and that I would not be angry with him as long as he NEVER swung first. Well....he did it. The kid punched him and my son went to town. Needless to say, it never happened again, with this kid or with anyone else. Unfortunately, when it comes to fighting, all kids involved are punished. In this case they were both suspended. I was told that if my son had not punched him back, he wouldn't have been in any trouble. We had a 3 day "vacation" from school and took in a couple of movies. Please don't misunderstand my opinion on this....I don't promote fighting, but I do encourage my son to defend himself if necessary.

Mrs. Hughes,

I wanted you to know that I have taken care of the incident and the student has been suspended. I will assign the other student a place at car pick up away from Marcus

UPDATE: I just received this email from our principal. At this point - Im angry! Suspension is the least thing that this boy needs... I like what someone said about insisting on Bully seeking counseling.

Anyway - anymore great advice out there?

[piercedqt78 658]

Seems to me that the principal is trying to brush the entire situation under the rug and move on. I would insist that the bully's be called and at least have his behavior explained to them. I am sure he is going to go home and tell them he was just defending himself and they will believe him. My step brother was a bully and he used to convince my parents that he was totally innocent and he was the one being picked on by the other kids and the teachers. Finally one day the principal called my mom and told her why he was suspended and that the next time the damaged another students property or caused an altercation the police would be called. My parents finally toughened up on him and he straightened out. Something to consider. Also what is the school policy on suspensions and being expelled? I know that in the magnet schools here behavior is just as important as test scores. ~Mandy

[mousecrazy 2]

Paula, a suspension is probably school policy, and has to be done, but you are right that it doesn't truly address the cause or root of the problem.

Our daughter has been the target of a little bullying, which is weird since she is, well, HUGE (compared to others in her grade). We do not approve of aggressive physical behavior, if she initiates it, but we have shown her how to take care of herself physically. My DH showed her how to hold her arms stiff and push the little bully to the wall, and just hold him there until an adult arrives. She, too, was afraid of being "kicked out" of school, but I told her if she is disciplined due to protecting herself when no one in the school was willing to do it, then so be it. There are far worse things. She should not worry about that. I will be the one to hound the school officials about that, and I will. That is a policy problem and a school culture problem, and it should be dealt with. Unfortunately, the politically correct culture we have allowed into our schools only benefits the bullies and those who want to take advantage of the lack of standards and behavior guidelines. As parents, we are going to have to be willing to set our own standards and uphold them, regardless of what school officials do.

Probably more info than you wanted, especially from a school teacher....but I hope it helps.

[trizzy 0]

This is what we teach our children:

1st : Tell person to stop--or leave me alone!

2nd : Tell teacher/parent/responsible adult.

3rd : Do whatever is necessary to keep bully from hurting you.

If we don't teach our children to stand up for themselves, they will be lost. My son has never had a 'physical' altercation with anyone. The first two steps usually solve it all. However, he will be going into seventh grade next year and I know it is coming. I have told him that he will never get in trouble at home if he follows the above steps, even if he gets in trouble at school. If there is no adult supervision then he shouldn't get in trouble for defending himself.

Also, we let them know that if a child hits them first, they have every right to skip to number 3!:boxing:

[terrriho 0]

Paula, you have received some great advice. There really are only a couple of ways to deal with a bully, let the school do it or take care of it yourself (self-defense). Clearly bullies are who they are because they are fearful themselves of their social standing. Picking on others keeps the demons away. Sad but true those insecurities translate into unacceptable behavior. We still really haven't recognized the seriousness of the bullying behavior (hence no counseling). The fact that the bully in this case has been "in trouble" before leads me to believe that is why he was suspended. Also, because he is still misbehaving this suggests that his parents are ineffective (or out to lunch) in dealing with his behavior. Therefore, I agree with others who have said it may be time for self-defense, and as we all know, that will most likely take care of the problem for your boy. (If fighting back will get your boy expelled from the magnet school then, of course, you may not want to coach him to fight back).

In the end it is about life, it is about how much you are willing to take, drawing that line in the sand and then accepting the consequences of your behavior. Up till now, your son has had you teaching him about what is acceptable behavior and then enforcing those rules. It has been easy for him because his environment is predictable. The world is not so black and white and he is going to find out that those authority figures may not be as predictable or helpful as his parents. Good luck in helping him find his way.

Terri

[TommyO 5]

FYI defending oneself from a bully often does not work, some kids are more agressive than others and telling a kid that they should defend themselves often just frightens them more. Tell your kid to run to safety, preferebly to and adult, make sure that you let them know that there is no shame in running. Telling your kid to defend themselves often causes them to intepret that as a requirement to defend themselves. This causes great anxiety especially when they know that acting in self defence will only result in an ass whooping.

If you are waiting for the school to resolve the issue you will wait a long time, they will not be able to reslove the issue to your satisfaction. That is no condemnation on the school system but rather a statement of fact.

Good luck but remember run as fast as you can to safety is the advice that you would give to an adult in a dangerous situation so give the same to your child.

Cheers

TommyO

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I grew up in a gang infested, high crime rate slum in Brooklyn NY. For a while I lived on the block with the highest murder rate in the country. I don't know if my background is pertinent to parents of children who live in Columbine type neighborhoods.

One thing a bully fears is losing face. He does not want to be forced to back down.

Bullies generally do not pick on people that they fear or suspect that they have a reason to fear.

Many parents put their children in marshal arts programs and sometimes the child becomes the bully. A good marshal arts program will emphasize three attributes; confidence and humility, and those will help to build character.

Parents need to let their children know that they will be punished for starting a fight, but not punished for defending himself.

I was able to survive because I was a good basketball player and football player, Bullies didn't bother me too much because of my sports reputation.

One child did bully me when we both were in an advanced placement class in the 7th grade. Because he had been picked on a lot, the teacher threatened to throw out of the class anyone who bothered him. So he became a bully. After months of living in fear of disappointing my mother by getting thrown out of the class, he picked a fight with me and things were settled.

There were other kids though who lived by a code similar to what we see in cowboy movies. It was never acceptable to “chicken out”. One day, I refused to fight this kid because my mother had told me if I get into a fight she would whip my butt, and I feared her more than the kids in Junior High school. I didn't fight him, so next day he showed up with two friends and demanded my money. I had to fight or else.

Anyway, my advice would be:

Let him know he should avoid fighting.

Let him know he is allowed to defend himself.

Let him know that if he defends himself, he must not continue hurting the other child after the threat has subsided.

Enroll him into a self-defense or marshal arts program that emphasizes character building.

I am glad that you realize that the bully in your son's school is a human being, and though he may be troubled, he needs an education. Throwing him out of school will just guarantee that he is a bully and a drain on society for a long time into the future.