What's so bad about being fat anyway?

[HunnyBun 2]

If anyone is planning on having surgery for any reason other than improved health, YOU NEED COUNSELING!!!

GeezerSue, I am sure you don't mean noone any harm but when I read this sentence from your previous post I assumed you meant all surgery. That's why I went into defence mode and wrote my last post.

[Stephanie MG 0]

I thought that too, I tried to have that perspective for a year....I thought,

"I have a awesome Husband that loves me"

"i have great job and make good money"

"I have friends that think Im so fun and they love me"

"im a good Mom and my kids love me"

BUT~~~~ I wasnt loving MYSELF,

i felt.... BLOATED, TIRED, DEPRESSED, SAD, PHYSICALLY UN HEALTHY.

all those things that I delt with INSIDE my own head, I just coulnt get happy, even though I had such great loved ones and lots of reasons to be happy.

NOW 52 POUNDS LIGHTER,

Im happy on the inside and I look great on the ouside too :girl_hug:

NO REGRETS 4 ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[vinesqueen 2]

A

If fat was 'normal' and skinny was 'ugly' would we all want to lose weight?

Would we overlook the physical discomfort and be happy with the attention we get?

Sometimes I get this crazy idea that being fat isn't so bad as long as I eat right and excercise, but then I hear someone call me a fat bitch and I want to cut my fat off with a knife.

If fat really was beautiful (by society standard) would we all be getting banded?

I think if Fat was the fashion, then more people would be packing on the pounds. Right now, however, we have this giant diet food industry that is intricate that sometimes seems as complex and monstrous as the military industrial complex.

How many people do damaging things to themselves in the name of fashion? I mean, throughout history? Women have blinded themselves with belladonna drops because large pupils were beautiful. They used lead based foundation because it made their face a wonderful white. Corsets that rearranged bone structures, surgery to remove the floating ribs, foot binding, the list of things people do to for beauty is probably endless and endlessly disturbing.

Ah, but it is all about degrees, isn't it. What is "fat" anyway? How do we measure it? Do we measure it based on a universal chart that was devised by life insurance companies, by something out of the 1930's, do we base it on an individual's FFM, or something else? What do we do with someone who has a high BMI because they are an athlete and have a high muscle/fat ratio?

Thin people become diabetic, and not all fat people do. Some thin people have trouble with high blood pressure and cholesterol while some MO folks do not. Oh yes, extra weight does add wear and tear on joints and the body, no question, absolutely no question.

Perhaps HunnyBun's question is directed towards the folks who've been banded at a low BMI, the folks at with a BMI of 32 or so. We know there are folks that have been banded just for vanities sake. Other's with a low BMI have been banded because they were afraid they were going to develop co-morbidities. For some, this was a very real possibility, for others, perhaps not so immanent.

I was banded because my weight was starting to kill me. My asthma had gotten so bad I didn't know if I was going to die from respiratory failure. I couldn't lose on my own, and I figured that the band was going to help me. I figured the band would help me lose weight.

(Insert maniacal/hysterical laughter here) Okay, so band isn't going to help me lose weight either. Maybe nothing will ever help me lose weight. Maybe once Pitunia is out of my head I'll lose weight, maybe I'll be fat forever, I don't know.

[Jachut 487]

At 35 I guess I was relatively low BMI. But boy did I feel every extra kilogram. Like I said, even at that realtively low BMI I felt shocking, really lethargic. I was motivated a lot by fear of future problems and comorbidities as I could certainly have been said to be a "healthy" fat person so far as that is possible. No real comorbidities, just a total lack of energy and rapidly dwindling fitness.

But do I enjoy looking better? Hell yeah! However, although vanity was certainly a motive for me, I'm not sure that had it been my only motive, I would have done it.

I would like to point out though that physical health is only part of the picture. What a healthy self esteem and and self worth adds to your life is immeasurable. I think mental problems such as depression caused by weight is every bit as valid a reason for banding as high blood pressure. But if thin werent in, would this even be a problem?

It doesnt matter, we dont live in a society that values plumpness do we?

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

We are confronted with two issues.

One is our brain.

The other is the assault on our brain.

Our brain is sometimes compared with a computer, but it is very different although it makes many computations.

Our brain has separate parts that control different things. On one extreme is our primitive brain (sometimes caused the reptilian brain) and on the other extreme is our intellect.

At it's most primitive is the need to stay alive. Then there is the urge to mate and pass on our genes. We can not be blamed for being attracted to beautiful people. In the poll/thread about liking fat people as a mate, many admitted that they would not want a fat mate. That is a biological urge.

Males can not control what type of female gives them an erection. I have noticed subtle biological changes in women when someone that meets their idea of attractive walks into the area. It is not within our control to be turned on by certain physical traits of the opposite sex (or the same gender in some of us).

Then there is the assault on our brain.

The people that need to sell products have learned what and how to get people to want things that their primitive brain would not want. Sometimes they find a way to use our primitive urges against us to sell us something. What does a half-naked women have to do with the pro's and con's of a car brand, shaving cream or a myriad of other products?

Besides not being able to control who we are attracted to, we know instinctively what attracts the members of the gender that attracts us, so we preen ourselves to attract them. Sometimes we do it with hair products, sometimes with physical fitness, sometimes with clothing (fashions), and sometimes with surgery.

Why did Michael Jackson and Cher have so much cosmetic surgery?

Probably for very different reasons. But maybe not as different as we would like to think. They both wanted to be loved, maybe Michael wanted to be loved by himself and maybe Cher wanted her audience to love her. But it still goes back to the basic (though distorted by modern life) primitive needs.

When I was in post surgery group therapy, all the women talked about looks. I told them I didn't care about my looks. “Then why did you have Bariatric surgery?”

“For my Health!!”

When you let your intellect rule, that is the reason, but we are complex beings with a complex brain. Our brain is in a tug of war within itself and our brain is in a tug of war with the sellers of merchandise.

All cosmetic surgery has risks. Many types have benefits. Some benefits are more real than others. Some benefits are more important to some than to others. I know a women who has had repetitive cosmetic surgery and Bariatric surgery. She had the some cosmetic surgery before the Bariatric surgery, but the Bariatric surgery spurred her on because she continually set her goals higher and higher as her weight went lower and lower.

We must reach a medium, a happy medium with our brains. Too much of a good thing may not be good. Too much of a bad thing is definitely a bad thing.

[winner 0]

That is a quote from one of the docs I work with daily, when I discuss a patient with him.

Me? I'm healthy and pushing to a BMI @ 35 to get coverage for the band. My motivation is largely (pun intended) my looks. I had been a model in college, and took looks for granted until I felt I had lost them.

BUT,

I'm not Crazy! (mostly not, anyway)

My family history is riddled with Diabetes and heart disease. My number will come up sooner or later if I don't gain Control now.

So, I wouldn't do the band for looks alone.

But, I won't mind feeling better about the image in my mirror.

(And I would never admit to any of this to most anyone in a non-anonymous manner.):girl_hug:

[GeezerSue 7]

BUT,

I'm not Crazy! (mostly not, anyway)

[

But...you are intentionally gaining weight to "be sick enough" to qualify for wls. Okay.

[GeezerSue 7]

FYI..ON AVERAGE...a person with a band loses 50-60% of excess weight after two years. Call it 55%.

Let's take a 5'7" person who weighs 210, a BMI of about 33.

She gains up to 225 to have a BMI of about 35.

A high-end normal weight for this person would be about 158.

Her excess weight would currently be +/- 52 pounds.

After gaining weight to qualify for surgery, her excess weight would be +/- 67 pounds.

Her projected average weight loss after two years would be +/- 37 pounds and her two-years-out weight would be +/- 188...about 22 pounds less than her starting point.

So, two years, give or take, thousands of dollars and a HOST of potential complications for 22 pounds.

[gonnabethin 10]

I think the question is a great one!! Especially for those who are obese, no complications and less than 100# over ideal weight.

I barely made BMI to get banded- even after gaining to make the minimum, had no ill effects from my 70# excess. SO No, if I didnt live in the upwardly mobile, thin obscessed society where everyone is 120#, plays tennis and scoffs at the slightly to obviously obese person, then No I would not have gone to the extremes that I went to. Maybe 10-15 years from now when I was having more trouble or put more weight on then It would have been a more logical step. I feel the pressure from society to be THIN - DAILY!!!

Now having said that.... The reason I decided to be banded is that the complications from obesity run in my family. Have MO aunt on dialysis, mother with diabetes and father with cardiac complic and diabetes. So for those reasons Im thrilled I decided to get healthier and get banded. Even though Im only 4 weeks into the journey- Id do it all over again!!!

[S@ssen@ch 745]

As I was reading through the first page of this, and before I got to GeezerSue's response I was thinking the same thing. I was disappointed to see how she was criticized for her opinion.

I'm sorry that Hunnybun feels such strong societal pressure that she wants to have WLS to either feel good about herself or please those around her.

Through my own weight journey, I have been to the place where I had tried to accept my weight. At one point, I believed I was destined to be overweight despite my every effort and I'd better just accept it. I did, or at least I thought I did. I went about my life despite the pain and difficulty it took to walk and get in and out of bed or my car. Buying clothes became a chore. food was my only comfort and that only made the problem worse. I avoided cameras because I had no desire to be reminded of how I looked even though I "felt good about myself". I didn't have diabetes or hypertension or sleep apnea...........YET. I had arthritis, but I certainly didn't have that from obesity. BECAUSE I WASN'T OBESE. NOT ME! Then I saw the photos that someone took of me on a holiday. I was appauled. I was ashamed of what I'd done to myself through denial of the problem.

After a hip replacement and having been told so many times that I needed to lose weight for my joints, the reality of it sank in. I was morbidly obese and I was walking down a slow path to destruction.

We all do things for our own personal reasons. IMHO to have WLS purely for cosmetic reasons is the wrong reason. Your health comes first. The vanity of looking better is only secondary. It certainly helps your self esteem, but to have WLS primarily for that reason would be like buying a new car so you look good driving it. A big expense, something that needs regular maintenance and is unnecessary.

And no, I don't think there's anything wrong with having cosmetic surgery. But WLS affects your nutrition and your health. Standard cosmetic surgery only affects your looks.

[Jachut 487]

We all do things for our own personal reasons. IMHO to have WLS purely for cosmetic reasons is the wrong reason. Your health comes first. The vanity of looking better is only secondary. It certainly helps your self esteem, but to have WLS primarily for that reason would be like buying a new car so you look good driving it. A big expense, something that needs regular maintenance and is unnecessary.

And no, I don't think there's anything wrong with having cosmetic surgery. But WLS affects your nutrition and your health. Standard cosmetic surgery only affects your looks.

Well you're certainly entitled to an opinion, but I disagree with it. I think mental health is every bit as important as physical and the discrimination and stigma that come from being morbidly obese are valid reasons for surgery, they are every bit as serious a comorbidity as high blood pressure. Its such an ignorant way to view the whole thing, to completely disregard mental health and the effects of obesity on mental health.

Hmm, standard cosmetic surgery only affects your looks? Surely having bags of silicone put into your chest, necessitating several repeat surgeries as they degrade and making future mammograms to detect things like breast lumps very very difficult all for the sake of having bigger breasts is every bit as risky as bariatric surgery. Especially the lap band. Managed properly and with a bit of luck that you wont be one of the small percentage that experiences probl4ms, a lap band does NOT compromise your nutrition and health, and I'd hazard a guess its much less risky than carrying round a few silicone implants. We all know the health horrors that have occurred due to breast implants.

I dont particularly care to stick toxins in my face either or slice bits of my face all for the sake of looking younger. I'd rather look healthy and fit (as a result fof my lap band surgery and the immeasurably healthier lifestyle that has followed it) but look my age than be overweight and lacking in energy and get up and go but having a nipped and tucked face.

And I dont think there's many women around who can say totally honestly that vanity played no part whatsoever in their decision. Come on! So many of our NSV's are about superficial things like going down in sizes and such.

[Constance 0]

Well said Jachut. Can we just be honest? OF COURSE health is my number one priority. But what if looking/feeling food is a close second? So what? Am I somehow less deserving of the band? I haven't "earned" it because I have not been suffering with multiple illnesses? Is it not enough to be discriminated against in love, work, wages, and personal relationships to warrant being banded? I think not. Come on people, let's be real. There are many reasons to want to be a normal and healthy weight. Medical, personal..etc. There is nothing wrong with that!

[GeezerSue 7]

Jacqui,

I'm happy for those for whom the LapBand has--so far, anyway--caused few or no problems, but that group is not a miniscule as you might believe...nor are the problems as minor as one might assume from reading your post. A young woman on another board I frequent, who was LUCKY because her surgeon was Rumbaut, just spent 9.5 hours in surgery and 11 days in the hospital having her band revised to an RnY.

If it took Rumbaut, one of the most experienced band surgeons on the planet, 9.5 hours to fix something...it was a mess. a mess that MANY other doctors would not have had the experience to repair.

I never said that mental health was not important. If someone is unhappy being obese, that's just another good reason to do something about it. But if anyone is having any wls in hopes that "the other kids" will like them better...they need help.

There ARE people who have surgery for all kinds of reasons...and doctors who, for their own reasons, actually perform surgery on people with bizarre reasons...like the doctor in Scotland who amputated the healthy limbs of people who just felt they'd be happier with only one leg.

But to tell the truth, I've encountered several people who have learned AFTER having wls (or various types) and losing substantial weight, that not fitting in and not being accepted and all of that was NEVER about their weight.

[coltonwade 27]

I am fat & feel awefully healthy. i exercise & have no health problem, a matter of fact i usually feel like crap-ola when i am 'dieting' - like when i was doing jenny craig a few months ago. besides being hungry and angry, when dieting i usually get headaches and stomachaches. i feel fine when i eat my regular sometimes healthy, sometimes unhealthy diet, at regular times & regular (often much larger portions that for instance 1/2 cup of freaking Cereal we are supposed to be eating)...

anyway I agree with hunnybun, if it were not for society looking down on my fat & therefore me dislikeing my fat.... i would not be considering lapband... i am healthy & active & feel good mostly, except for my bouts of depression & insecurity & relationship problems due to my being fat.

?!?! what do you do !?!?!

Im 30 yrs old and the only Obesity related issue I have is sleep apnea( something my father has as well) although I suspect It will go away when I loose wt . I have no other issues. I have PCOS But I had that before I became obese. I have been obese for 6-7 yrs. There is a reason they call people who have a certain BMI MORBIDLY Obese , its becaues conditions related to the wt can KILL YOU . With just me having PCOS, sleep Apnea and my migranies ( something i have had all my life ) I am at risk for diabetes, stroke, high blood pressure, heart attacks, depression, uterine cancer , and heart disease. JUST To name a few.

That's not inlucding my complications I COULD get from being obese.

The symptoms from PCOS will all but diminish ( SO they say ) after i loose wt, as will the sleep apnea . ( Migraines I'll have all my life ) . I am 30 i wanted to get this surgery BEFORE I get any of these things and have to play with my kids in a wheel chair or a hospital bed.

I could give a rats A$$ what society thinks about me . Personally I do not think someone should get the band because of what someone ELSE Thinks about them . Its kind of like getting plastic surgery because your husband wants YOU To have bigger boobs. Its not about the other people its about you . I count myself LUCKY I have not had any problems of major proportions from my wt. But im NOT Going to sit around UNTIL Something happens to do something .

Just my input

Mindy

[Kelliebelly 13]

Heres how I feel. I was 28 when I was banded. I hated myself, yep, thought I was as fat as they come...ugly as a horses ass. I had no confidence and no self esteem.

I couldnt play with my kids much or do alot with them. When I decided to look at WLS, I decided because I didnt want to be fat and ugly anymore. I didnt want people whispering about me anymore. I didnt want people snickering when I walked past anymore. I wanted to be able to wear nice clothes. I really dont think I can think of a time leading up to my surgery that I thought, I am doing this for my health.

Am I wrong for thinking like that...no...because it is my opinion, and it is how I think. All my problems from being fat were psychological when I was banded so I really had nothing making me think I am going to have a heart attack/diabetes, get cancer etc.

For me it was all about fitting in and being happy and for once in my life I kinda am.