What color/race do you see?

[Poodles 0]

I think my coworkers comments were meant to be a protection. It is very common these days to do the "you did that because I am _______". I get that from all groups in class. I usually say, "no I did that because you hit someone with a ruler, ate the glue, or _______" Your behavior attracted the discipline.

I have been doing a ton of research on the dance style, stomp dancing, step dancing and such, and I can't even get my leg up high enough to slap under it, so don't know how it would work. I think I will hunt for a co-sponsor that can dance. I just don't want to get the reply..."you don't want to be our sponsor because we are...." Honestly, I am a fat woman that can't dance..... but I can do that butt shaking thing....jiggle jiggle jiggle...

Thanks for all of the replies. It is interesting to see what is going on in peoples minds.

[libra 13]

I keep meaning to rent that . I saw the cast on Oprah and wanted to see the Movie after that I just kept forgetting.

Thanks for reminding me TOM .

Mindy

Crash was amazing. It really had me thinking. I profess to not be racist.. after seeing that film, I just don't know.

[coltonwade 27]

Crash was amazing. It really had me thinking. I profess to not be racist.. after seeing that film, I just don't know.

I have seen clips from the movie and on Oprah , I use to think that there was a difference in being Racist and Prejuidice , Judging people at first glance by what they look like or sterotyping people. ( which from what I Understand is addressed in the movie) Oprah had a professor on her show and he said " NOPE its all the same if you walk down the street and hold your purse tighter because your in a dark street and a black man walks by , YES Its sterotyping or judging .. BUT Its Racist." Before I would have said I was guilty of sterotyping some people. Espically living in Texas and being around so many hispanics . I am VERY Guilty of that. Having a construction company though that depends on Hispanic workers for its bread and butter has changed that for me a little.

I think i might go rent that movie tonight .

Mindy

[Poodles 0]

Notice a lot of Texans replying. Wonder if we are just vocal or notice it more here?

[coltonwade 27]

Notice a lot of Texans replying. Wonder if we are just vocal or notice it more here?

Personally I notice it more here. I lived in ILL until I was about 10 and go back there some and speak to family who lives there. Not saying its not there but I think Texans (Southerners ) ARE more vocal about it ? Idont know .

Im being sterotypical again ,,,, but I have noticed this. Up north its not as obvious . Just my opinion .

Mindy

[leatha_g 4]

Racism is a very touchy topic. Sort of like religion. I suspect many are just keeping their distance, so as not to get involved in something that could get out of hand?

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Racism is a very touchy topic. Sort of like religion. I suspect many are just keeping their distance, so as not to get involved in something that could get out of hand?

We have had threads in this forum recently on politics that did not get out of hand even though the threads went on for days. So I both hope and think we can discuss this issue without name calling.

I lived in the North for 58 years. I worked in Queens which is a Borough of NY City for 35 years and lived in another Borough, Brooklyn for about 54 years. Most of my co-workers were from the more conservative Long Island.

I went to college for almost 3 years in the middle of Pennsylvania.

I now live on the Treasure coast of Florida. There is not much difference in the places that I have lived. In each of the places, if there were no Blacks around, whites would have no problem with making an anti-Black racial slur or an anti-Black comment or criticism. If there were Blacks within sight, but out of earshot, many whites would cover their mouth and lower their voice before making those kinds of remarks.

The only difference I have noticed is here in Florida, some people like to fly their confederate flags or have confederate flag stickers on their cars/trucks or wear tee-shirts with confederate flag pictures. Some of the tee-shirts with the confederate flags on them also have challenging remarks. I saw one recently that said, "If this flag bothers you, you can kiss my a$$”. Another had drawings of a confederate flag and Jesus kneeling on the front along with writing saying "Two things we need back in our schools: the confederate flag and Jesus Christ" on the back.

Another confederate flag shirt said, "If this flag bothers you, then you don't know your history". I thought the confederate flag was the flag of the states which tried to succeed from the United States of America and therefor was in opposition to the USA and that the soldiers carrying the confederate flag were shooting at the people who carried the American flag. I guess it confuses me because it seems that the same states that support the American flag anti-desegregation constitutional amendment most fervently also support the confederate flag most often. It seems like many of the people I meet from the South are still fighting the "Civil War" or the “War between the States" as they like to call it and are supporting both flags, though not the principles of both of the warring parties.

I struck up a conversation with one of the confederate flag tee-shirt wearers and one who was selling them along with shirts with Jim Crow symbolisms at a kiosk in the largest mall in my area of Florida. They both told me that they like the ideas that the designs express and it sends a message to certain people and those people that support those people. Neither would specify which "certain people" they were referring to, but since one was a salesman and the other was shopping, they didn't know each other, but they seemed to know that they agreed with each other, it must have been common knowledge.

We can debate whether it is better that these things are left unsaid or whether it was better when people knew who their enemies were. I don't think there is any debate about the level of overt violence. It is way down. But many people use code-words now. Many politicians know and use the code-words. They are not like the George Wallace's of 30 years ago who came right out and said things. That is both good and bad. People don't have to hear the words as much, but many decent people are fooled when politicians use words that seem ok, normal and decent to them, but have hidden meanings to those in the know. It is a shame that a person can be preaching hate to one person and preaching good political philosophy to the person right next to him while saying one thing.

Is it better to be sneaky or out in the open? Is it better for people to hear the hate who have no knowledge of those kinds of hate? Or is it better for some people to remain ignorant of their enemies, while other people do not even know that there is a war (of words and ideas) going on?

[coltonwade 27]

The High school my son will go to is Hays. Up until a yr or so ago Hays' Symbol was the Confederate Flag. It flew at the school, on the school , it was ON the football field. On school Tshirts ect.. All the points that you stated TOM were debated when people started an uproar about removing it. My "issue" with that was the Hays Rebels as they are called has had the confederate flag as long as the school has been open as its " Symbol" , I for the life of me couldnt understand why it was an issue now ? Im sure it was an issue for some I dont know before that point. But it got UGLY around here over this. Before this though , honestly you would see people of ALL colors wearing everything and anything with the confederate flag on it. The flag is still flown , just not at the school , its still around , the mascot now is a yosimite sam looking guy " rebel" But the "Rebel" Flag is still around just not the "offical"symbol of Hays HS. I personally and honestly ( dont shoot me) do not know enough about it to know if I should be offended or how i should feel about it , i just never took the time to learn about it .

So i can not say one way or another.

Was it better for those Amish children who were held hostage and eventually killed to not know hate ? To be sheltered , but when it walked into the school they were in and they were confronted with it by a man holding them hostage . Was it better for them to be SO Isolated that they did not know people like that exsisted , people COULD hate like that ? Then when something happened like that , what must they have thought ?

Its all a very tricky deal. Just like raising kids . Its a very slippery sloap to know what to do between what is right and wrong and what might shape them the right way and the wrong way .

Its rough , at least for me sometimes.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Was it better for those Amish children who were held hostage and eventually killed to not know hate ? To be sheltered , but when it walked into the school they were in and they were confronted with it by a man holding them hostage . Was it better for them to be SO Isolated that they did not know people like that exsisted , people COULD hate like that ? Then when something happened like that , what must they have thought ?

They never knew hate, and knowing of it would not have saved them.

A few days after the tragedy, one of the World News TV shows was discussing the "strange idea" that these people, the Amish community and the family members of the victims had forgiven the killer and had invited the wife of the killer to the funerals and to help her grieve.

Yes, it is a "strange idea". An idea that I believe was preached about 2000 years ago by a carpenter.

We are a nations of Christians who know very little of and follow very little of the teachings of Christ. I am glad that the Amish set an example for the rest of us with their "strange idea".

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

The High school my son will go to is Hays. Up until a yr or so ago Hays' Symbol was the Confederate Flag. It flew at the school, on the school , it was ON the football field. On school Tshirts ect.. All the points that you stated TOM were debated when people started an uproar about removing it. My "issue" with that was the Hays Rebels as they are called has had the confederate flag as long as the school has been open as its " Symbol" , I for the life of me couldnt understand why it was an issue now ? Im sure it was an issue for some I dont know before that point. But it got UGLY around here over this. Before this though , honestly you would see people of ALL colors wearing everything and anything with the confederate flag on it. The flag is still flown , just not at the school , its still around , the mascot now is a yosimite sam looking guy " rebel" But the "Rebel" Flag is still around just not the "offical"symbol of Hays HS. I personally and honestly ( dont shoot me) do not know enough about it to know if I should be offended or how i should feel about it , i just never took the time to learn about it .

So i can not say one way or another...Its all a very tricky deal. Just like raising kids . Its a very slippery sloap to know what to do between what is right and wrong and what might shape them the right way and the wrong way .

Its rough , at least for me sometimes.

Symbols of hate, if not known to be symbols of hate by the viewer, may not effect people in a hateful way. When I was a child, I used to draw Nazi insignias on pieces of paper. I had no idea what it was, except that I had seen it in movies.

When I was told what it meant, I stopped.

Many people in the USA today, proudly wear that symbol. My father died in Berlin fighting against the people who flew that symbol on their flag. Many of the soldiers who fought under that symbol in WW11 were not as evil as the people who live in the USA in 2006 and who fly that symbol on a flag. Many of the German soldiers were drafted into military service and were brainwashed that they were defending Germany. I would say all of the Americans who fly the Nazi banner in the 21st century espouse the ideas that the banner represents and many of those same people also fly the confederate flag right next to their Nazi flag.

If you flew the Confederate Flag at your school because it was what the school expected you to do, but you had no hatred of Blacks, nor condoned slavery or the idea that whites are superior, of course you are guilty of nothing. If you espoused the principles of slavery or the superiority of the white race, whether behind a confederate flag or Nazi flag, then you have only yourself to blame and only you can make amends for that.

What was in a person's heart as a child is often governed by their parents and/or their peers. What is an adult's heart is the responsibility of that adult. Failure to grow is not totally the fault of the childhood experience, but the failure to reason, learn and challenge the past.

[Woodys 0]

This thread couldn't have started at a more convenient time....I'm just burning mad!

Tonight I had a table of 6 in the restaurant. 5 ordered appetizers and Entrees, and 1 gentleman ordered just an entree. So, of course, when the appetizers were delivered there was nothing for him. The 5 ordered all the same entree so my husband plated all 5 at once and the gentleman's (and I use that term lightly) was delivered last. When all 5 got their plates first he bellowed at me "What? am I the wrong colour or something?"

I got so mad.....I was at a loss for words...everyone in the dining room turned to look at this ignoramous. Finally I contained myself and asked him "which colour would you be referring to, no....wait....don't answer that because there is no wrong colour in my world. Outbursts of this nature are not tolerated in my dining room, if you can't refrain from being inappropriate and down right offensive then I will have to ask you to leave." I could feel myself getting upset the more I stood at the table so I left to tend another table...on purpose...he waited a good 10 minutes for his dinner while everyone else at his table were eating their dinners with very red faces.....oops, no pun intended!

Carol

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

This thread couldn't have started at a more convenient time....I'm just burning mad!

Tonight I had a table of 6 in the restaurant. 5 ordered appetizers and Entrees, and 1 gentleman ordered just an entree. So, of course, when the appetizers were delivered there was nothing for him. The 5 ordered all the same entree so my husband plated all 5 at once and the gentleman's (and I use that term lightly) was delivered last. When all 5 got their plates first he bellowed at me "What? am I the wrong colour or something?"

I got so mad.....I was at a loss for words...everyone in the dining room turned to look at this ignoramous. Finally I contained myself and asked him "which colour would you be referring to, no....wait....don't answer that because there is no wrong colour in my world. Outbursts of this nature are not tolerated in my dining room, if you can't refrain from being inappropriate and down right offensive then I will have to ask you to leave." I could feel myself getting upset the more I stood at the table so I left to tend another table...on purpose...he waited a good 10 minutes for his dinner while everyone else at his table were eating their dinners with very red faces.....oops, no pun intended!

Carol

You are I assume white and I also assume that the customers were. If I am wrong, much of what I say may not apply, but much still will.

What angers me is that people only see and mention things when other races or groups are involved.

Many years ago, I had a part time job driving a delivery truck for an auto-parts store. Our machine shop had done some work on a V8 engine and I had to deliver it to the customer. One of the more senior men was assigned to go with me because it took two people to unload the big Cadilac engine.

The other man was driving. He was a WASP and in a hurry to make the delivery and get back to the store. We traveled some heavily congested streets and the highway where there was a lot of construction that required unusual lane changes and merges. The area we were in is one of the most intergated areas in NY.

A car with a Black driver cut in front of us at one of the merge points, and my coworkered yelled out, "Those niggers can't drive for $hit". Later we had a dash for the open lane with a man wearing a Yamaca and my driver yelled out, "those Jew ba$tards can't drive for $hit" and of course when when a man's car wearing a turbine came close it was "those towel heads can't drive for $hit" and I also heard "Damn women can't drive for $hit", Damn chinks can't drive for $hit", and so on and so on.

BUT

When he had to jam his brakes on to avoid a car of a nondescript white man, I did not hear "those white ba$tars can't drive for $hit". When I asked him why he said, "That idiot can't drive for $hit" instead of mentioning his race, he was too dumbfounded to give me an answer and then claimed that he was not predjudiced.

I imagine if an obese person had walked in front of us at a stop sign or when we had the green light, I would have heard, "Those fat slobs can't walk for $hit" or "those fat slobs think they own the street".

He only saw differences in the people who made him mad.

[Carlene 12]

It seems like many of the people I meet from the South are still fighting the "Civil War" or the “War between the States" as they like to call it...

Actually, TOM, we prefer "the war of Northern agression". :heh:

[Carlene 12]

Another confederate flag shirt said, "If this flag bothers you, then you don't know your history". I thought the confederate flag was the flag of the states which tried to succeed from the United States of America and therefor was in opposition to the USA and that the soldiers carrying the confederate flag were shooting at the people who carried the American flag.

First of all, we didn't TRY to secede from the Union - we DID secede. The North won the war and forced us back into the Union. I guess we've been pissed off ever since. :heh:

Seriously, it isn't that we are still fighting the Civil War. Most of us have only a vague idea of what THAT was about anyway. (No, it wasn't all about slavery.)

Southerners are proud of their heritage, proud of their "rebel spirit" and their "give 'em hell" attitude. It's who we are. In some places (schools, for example) that was personified by flying the Confederate Battle Flag (the "Stars and Bars", not the Confederate States flag, the "Southern cross").

My friend Sue graduated from South Cleveland High School in the '60's. They were known as the Rebels and their symbol was the Rebel flag, by the way, so it wasn't just us redneck Southern rabble-rousers who were guilty of waving the flag.

Anyway, at some point the flags became an issue. Most of them were taken down, in deference to African Americans who might be offended by any symbol of the Confederacy.

In Texas we boast about all the flags that have flown over our great state - six, in all (France, Spain, Mexico, the Republic of Texas, the USA, and the Confederate States of America). You don't see the flags of France or Spain very much, but a lot of people display the Mexican flag. There are, after all, a lot of Hispanics in Texas. And I'm okay with that, even though there was much blood shed in winning our independence from Mexico. Our martyrs are Crockett and Travis and Bowie - men who were executed at the battle of the Alamo. But no one has ever, as far as I know, raised a ruckus about anyone flying, wearing, or otherwise displaying the Mexican flag.

Heritage does not equal hatred. I just wanted to point that out, in defense of Texans in particular and Southerners in general.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Flag s were first used as a way of coordinating battles. In a way it was the way of knowing who was with you and who was again' you.

That is why (hold your breath for the drum roll) I do not pledge allegiance to the flag at any meetings or events.

I might just as well pledge allegiance to a F16 fighter plane, M16 rifle or an M1 tank. I would willingly pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the USA, but not to a piece of cloth who's purpose was an implement of war.

I would die to protect our constitution, while many of those who claim to love the flag and who claim they would give their live for the flag, want to change the constitution and thereby gut it of the freedoms that it guarantees us.

Flags today are often used for the purpose of browbeating. “Either you love the flag or you are not a true American” or “Either you love the flag or you are not a patriot”. I don't love clothe. I love freedom and humanity.