Portion size: The Neverending Debate

[Alexandra 55]

On other boards that shall remain nameless, there is a recurring debate about how much bandsters should be eating at a sitting or in a day. Since it's a subject of much interest to newbies I thought I'd start it up here (where it's likely to get less, ahem, spirited).

How much is "enough"? The answer to that question is that enough is indeed probably less than we think. It's certainly less than we're used to. And it's probably one bite less than what makes us feel full even now. But it's NOT the same for every person, and changes for each person over time.

No one person can declare that this amount or that amount is the "right" amount for all bandsters to be eating. Obviously the right amount is less than before, and less than what would create discomfort. But if that's a quarter-cup or 1 1/2 cups will depend on too many variables to predict.

So that's the answer. I feel better now.

[bbrecruiter2000 1]

Hi Alexandra,

I think we would all agree though, if someone were able to eat two cups of solid Protein in less than 20 minutes, they would probably need a fill? The band is a restrictive device and although I agree with you that restriction is a subjective topic, there has to guidelines? Who makes those guidelines? I know, I am getting philisopical....

However, during the most successful part of my weight loss journey so far is when I was eating more 8-10 oz of solid Protein and veggies. was losing rapidly. I think what we are eating is far more important than the exact quantity, although I would like to think that the Portion Control would be restricted with the band.

I know that a very qualified bandster and medical professional once told me that a bandster portion for eggs at a meal was one. I eat two eggs and some turkey and a piece of cheese at lunch, so this would be a pig out according to others who feel that this would be too much. Also, I am able to eat about 6-8 oz of food in the evening and 4-5 oz for lunch. But ya know, this is a fraction of what I ate before and I would have eaten a three egg omelette, 3 or 4 pieces of bread with cheese etc.., dessert and a drink.

Hugs,

Babs in TX

334/214/170

-120

6/23/03

[Alexandra 55]

Originally posted by bbrecruiter2000

I think we would all agree though, if someone were able to eat two cups of solid Protein in less than 20 minutes, they would probably need a fill? The band is a restrictive device and although I agree with you that restriction is a subjective topic, there has to guidelines? Who makes those guidelines?

I'd agree that if someone were able to eat that much solid food that quickly, they are not experiencing restriction. Whether that's too much for that person or not is a completely different question. Are they trying to lose weight? Is their band filled? What other variables haven't we considered? (And is that person's band even in right??!?)

However, during the most successful part of my weight loss journey so far is when I was eating more 8-10 oz of solid Protein and veggies. was losing rapidly. ... I know that a very qualified bandster and medical professional once told me that a bandster portion for eggs at a meal was one. I eat two eggs and some turkey and a piece of cheese at lunch, so this would be a pig out according to others who feel that this would be too much.

EXACTLY!! Telling a newly banded person that "a bandster portion is one egg" is completely unhelpful. The right way to express instructions on Portion Control would be as follows:

"Many long-time bandsters find that a meal consisting of one egg or even as little as a half-cup of solid food is enough. It may be quite some time before you get to that point, but even before that it's very important that you pay close attention to your body's signals and don't eat more than it takes to feel satisfied. This is important because you can damage your pouch or band placement by frequently eating more than that at one time. Eat very slowly and you'll be surprised at how little it takes to satisfy you."

Obviously that's a little harder to say, but there it is.

[GeezerSue 7]

Ahem...

[Alexandra 55]

Originally posted by GeezerSue

Ahem...

Ahem? I don't want to guess what you're trying to say. Can you be clearer?

[hagerteresa 3]

Okay fellows,

Here's my take. As I am only 7 weeks out, have not had a fill and am still losing here is my opinion: I have become very calorie conscous. I love fitday and have based my weight loss on my caloric intake which is between 1200 and 1500 calories a day. My meals typically are a 1/3 the size they used to me. Yesterday I had 2 oz. ham for lunch, 1/4 cup of homemade Pasta salad, and 1 slice of cut up cantaloupe. Breakfast today was 2 morningstar vegetarian sausages and one egg. I try to spread my calories out, eat more fruit, excercise a little more and allow myself one real treat a day. I am a chocolate addict so most times I'll allow myself 200 calories towards a special chocolate treat. I don't get anything that is in a bulk package as I probably would cheat but am safe if servings are individually packaged. I am trying to find the perfect calorie count to allow the most comfortable weightloss. Teresa

Dr. Lopez

5/8/04

-32

362/330/?

[donali 57]

There are two issues here wrapped into one:

1) weightloss

2) pouch damage

If we're talking about #1, then it doesn't matter HOW MUCH you are eating, if you are losing weight. If you are eating 5 cups of food per meal, 3 times a day, and are losing weight, who cares? Then there's the nitty gritty of WHAT exactly those 5 cups are composed of - 5 cups of lettuce, 5 cups of meat, 5 cups of lasagna? This is where portion size is important in terms of calories.

If we're talking about #2, the argument is that the pouch only holds 3-4 ounces, so eating any more than that at one time puts one at risk for stretching or in some way damaging the pouch. The fact is, the pouch is not a closed reservoir - the pouch is emptying as soon as something is put in there. A person's restriction determines how fast the pouch empties. If someone continually eats faster than the pouch empties, and ignores the signals of being full, then the pouch overloads and begins to back up. This is the "golfball" feeling, or the feeling of food sitting at the bottom of the throat. Continuing to abuse the pouch in this way can result in reflux, dilatation of the esophagus, and, I suppose, in extreme cases, the actual stretching of the pouch (although I am not perfectly convinced of the "permanent" stretch damage - I think one is much more likely to end up with esophageal problems first).

And I have to be realistic in admitting that any opinions I express regarding #2 are tainted, since I have experienced erosion. (I'm waiting for one of those clever people to bring that into the argument as to why no one should listen to me - after all, my band eroded, so whatever you do, DON'T do it DONALI's way!)

I honestly do not think I have treated my band any differently than anyone else, but I cannot prove that, and I will never know for sure if it was something I did that caused my erosion. But I have gone to many bandster support meetings, and I have watched other successful bandsters eat, and they are eating more than 1/2 cup of food per meal.

I stick by my original advice to everyone: eat when you are PHYSICALLY hungry, and stop when you are full. If you are not losing weight, and you are making healthy choices about 70% of the time, and you are not experiencing reflux or vomiting, then you probably could use a fill.

FWIW.

Love, Eroded Girl

[Alexandra 55]

(I'm waiting for one of those clever people to bring that into the argument as to why no one should listen to me - after all, my band eroded, so whatever you do, DON'T do it DONALI's way!)

This is why I wanted to have the conversation here, because NO ONE would say that on LBT!!

I think your take on it is exactly right. And when doctors, nutritionists, or anyone else says we "should" be eating a certain amount, there's so much UNsaid in that directive as to render it useless. Whatever it takes to feel physically satisfied is the right amount for us, whatever that amount is.

We love you, Eroded Girl!

[GeezerSue 7]

"Ahem" instead of my participating in even an unspirited debate. I'm puffy right now and I'm just going to watch.

Sue

[donali 57]

"Ahem" instead of my participating in even an unspirited debate. I'm puffy right now and I'm just going to watch.

lol.

To me it's kind of uninteresting, because the answer seems so obvious, but for some reason I'm feeling the necessity of making my point (and being right... lol)

But I agree - it's a pretty boring and moot topic. People are going to do what they're going to do, regardless of the advice they're given. I'd just like their brains to be engaged when they do it.

But that's my problem.

Oh, and THANKS, Alexandra. But when they do eventually bring that up, I can't really say that I'd blame them. I'd probably do the same thing to cast doubt on someone else's viewpoint - it's a legitimate argument. It may not be based in truth (who knows?!?), and I don't think has anything to do with what I'm trying to say, but it's legitmate.

[La_madam 20]

Ok I must be a dummy...

What are the signs of being full? I eat to the point of when I'm satisfied. I have not ever eaten to the full point (atleast I dont think I have) I have never felt full or umcomfortable after a meal. As far as portion size doesnt that depend on how tight you are filled? I had my first fill and now eat less per meal then pre fill. I assume that each time I get a fill I will eat less and less right? I do not measure my food. I'm at 1.1cc's and a days food intake consists of :

Breakfast (6 am )- 2 scrambled eggs and 2 link sausages

Lunch- either a ice cream scoop size of tuna OR 2 pieces of Sliced Cheddar cheeses w/ Peanut Butter

Dinner- 1 boneless chicken breast with green Beans or small salad

If I have a snack during the day I usually have a Protein bar

Since my fill 3 weeks ago I have lost 2 pounds a week (6 pounds since June 7th).

[Alexandra 55]

But I agree - it's a pretty boring and moot topic. People are going to do what they're going to do, regardless of the advice they're given. I'd just like their brains to be engaged when they do it.

I agree about this, and cringe whenever it's raised--again--elsewhere. But it's something that newbies and potential bandsters are curious about, so I thought I'd air it here where there is less chance of a hissing match being started.

Michelle, it sounds to me like you've mastered the art of bandster eating already! If you've eaten too much, you'll know it, and if you're eating less than that and aren't hungry you're in good shape.

The tricky part is getting our brains, hands, and mouths around to the same knowledge as our banded stomachs. Sounds like you're there already.

[La_madam 20]

Thanks Alex, I would rather you bring this subject up over here then there. It seems to have started a debate over there and besides this board is much easier to follow and I will participate on this topic here vs. over there. That place is intimidating ! I fell so much more comfortable here

[MeganA 35]

I know when I was first banded, I wanted some reassurance I was doing everything right. I was so used to diet rules that I felt like I was lost. I also used it as a way to beat myself up i.e.: "I shouldn't have eaten that second egg...what a loser I am...my band is never going to work..."

Now that I'm out eight months, I've discovered that the band really does work- and if I'm still legitimately hungry after one egg- then I'll eat another egg.

I'm a slow loser, and sometimes I still get down on myself- but now it's more like "Were the two bites of chocolate cake worth it?" Heck yeah...I had two bites instead of pre band where I'd have two pieces and another "sliver" while putting plastic wrap on it while putting it away.

I am envious of the people who loose weight a lot faster than me, but if what worked for one person worked for everyone, then wouldn't our doctors and nutritionallists all make us do those things?

Instead they say- Protein first, veggies second, and carbs and treats last. If you don't loose weight in a month , you're making good choices 80% of the time, and you feel hungry less than two hours after eating, get a fill.

As much as it feels like it at first, it really isn't rocket science and everyone's metabolism is so different...it's like comparing apples to oranges to pears to grapes to.........

mmmm, think I'll have some fruit for supper.

Megan

[donali 57]

Michelle -

I agree with Alex - sounds like you're doing great!

I made my last post over there - ever. I'm not one of "them" anymore, starting Friday.

However, I feel like I'll always be one of "you" over here - we've connected on so much more than just being a bandster.

I'm tired. Debates that can't be won make me feel that way.

Time to take a break from the boards for a while. Well, maybe not this one - there's my addiction to be considered...