Another Phony E-mail Refuted

[GeezerSue 7]

Right there is the out for allowing abortions.

"For everything that is shaped, and his received a soul from God, if slain, it shall be avenged, as being unjustly destroyed."

In this or another thread, I contended that a God (who is as intelligent and "all-knowing" as is made out to be by the fervent believers), would not place a soul in a fetus if he knew it was going to be aborted. And of course God knows it. He knows everything; past present and future.

On another site, I read that the word "shaped" is the operative word here. Meaning that if the fetus, once aborted "looked human" then you had sinned. Interesting criteria.

[BJean 16]

It is should be noted at this point that the particulars being cited to make points here, are taken from man-made rules or teachings. Very interesting, but not very relevant to the issues except to say that men can be contridictory in their teachings and rule-making.

[green 6]

While it is to be hoped that all women are responsible about sex and take appropriate birth control measures we all know that this ain't always the case. Some women are more careless than they should be, and sometimes accidents do happen. I suspect that those women who use abortion as their primary method of birth control are not too common but nevertheless this type of woman is the favored profile of the anti-abortionists for obvious reasons. Most women have abortions because of a one time mistake or because of a failure in birth control.

I believe that it should be the woman's right to choose and that her needs trump those of the foetus. She is already engaged in living her life; the foetus has not begun his or hers. I also believe that every child should be a wanted child. It is a terrible thing to grow up unwelcomed and unwanted. Indeed, this is a fine way to start a dysfunctional life.

[vinesqueen 2]

Well.

My mother almost died from an illegal abortion in the late 1960's. She already had 5 kids. My dad was out on disability, with a possible broken back. I was six years old, and my youngest sibling was less than a year old.

My mom worked full time, and couldn't afford taking time off that she would have needed to taken off.

When I was a younger woman, I worked at a woman's health clinic, where yes, we provided all gyn/ob services. And yes, I was shot at one day while I was getting the clinic ready for a general gyn clinic. Three .22 caliber shots aimed at my head. All three missed

Good thing I live a charmed life.

You want to get rid of abortions? Then make sure that all women are empowered in their own sexuality. End this "oh it just happened" nonsense. Empower women so they know their bodies, so they are responsible for their bodies.

End this nonsens crap 'absenenc only' BC. We need to teach our youth how their bodies work. We do them the greatest disservice imaginagle by not teaching them how their bodies work, how to not get pregent, how to not spread sexual disases.

You want to end abortions? Embower womend sexually.

[Carlene 12]

We need to teach our youth how their bodies work. We do them the greatest disservice imaginagle by not teaching them how their bodies work, how to not get pregent, how to not spread sexual disases.

You want to end abortions? Embower womend sexually.

You are so right, Vines. And we need to teach them responsibility. Take responsibility for what you say, for what you do, for what comes out of your mouth, and for your own sexuality.

Abstinence is such a lovely idea. Unfortunately, it's unrealistic.

This is a link to a video of an actual abortion (you may have to copy/paste it into your browser). I warn you, it is VERY GRAPHIC.

I had second thoughts about posting this link, so I deleted it. If you would like to view the video, PM me and I will send it to you.

How much better it would have been for both the mother and the baby if there had been no pregnancy to begin with.

[GeezerSue 7]

How reassuring it was that those women could have clean abortions.

The nine-year old girl in Nicaragua was almost not able to have hers because of all the well-meaning people who wanted to impose their will on her...just as her rapist(s) had. No video of her rape, her battle with the Catholic Church or her abortion is available. But I'm sure glad that she didn't have to go to term. Nine years old. Nine.

http://www.feminist.org/news/newsbyte/uswirestory.asp?id=7549

[vinesqueen 2]

Sorry Sue, I forget that rape is used as a tool of war, as a tool of genocide. My brain hurts and there is only so much that I can deal with.

Lots and lots of evil.

I am sorry.

[green 6]

Women can find themselves pregnant for all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with being "lazy and immoral." In my own case it was a failure of birth control. I had never wanted children and had been most scrupulous about using birth control from day one in my sexual life. I would have had my tubes tied had I been able to find a doctor who was prepared to do the operation on a woman of my age. Twelve years later I found myself pregnant. This was a nightmare for me.

I was living in France at the time and was able to arrange an abortion through the local hospital. This cost less than $300. I, on the other hand, was neither emotionally nor physically equipped to have a child.

It was made clear to me that if I had wanted to follow through with the pregnancy the government would have provided help in the form of free medical assistance as well as any other assistance that I might have needed. France's birthrate is very low and the government provides cash incentives to women to have children. They also have state run day care centres and pre-schools. In addition, a woman may take up to 3 years off work and still come back to her job. It is much easier to have and raise children over there than it is in North America. The taxes are much higher, though.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

As a man who has not and can not ever have the personal choice to have an abortion, I want to state two opinions.

Outlawing abortion will only make abortion illegal for the poor. The well-to-do will travel overseas for safe abortions or use their money to buy abortions from competent doctors without any medical records available for prosecution.

The same groups who oppose abortion in the USA, also usually oppose birth control and sex education that teaches responsible sex. These groups believe that sex can be controlled by teaching abstinence, although through out history, sex has never been curtailed by either law, schools or the church.

[Carlene 12]

green...

I'm so sorry you had to go thru this. Doctors, for some reason, are willing to perform vasectomies on young, single men virtually upon request, but treat women as if they don't have the good sense to know whether or not they want children. They think, since a woman "might" change her mind later, that they have a responsibility to protect her from herself. What arrogant macho BS!

[missy4gordon 0]

Outlawing abortion will only make abortion illegal for the poor. The well-to-do will travel overseas for safe abortions or use their money to buy abortions from competent doctors without any medical records available for prosecution.

The same groups who oppose abortion in the USA, also usually oppose birth control and sex education that teaches responsible sex. These groups believe that sex can be controlled by teaching abstinence, although through out history, sex has never been curtailed by either law, schools or the church.

I oppose abortion but do not oppose education and birth control...so let me make that clear please. I have not said once that we must make abortion ILLEGAL. I will leave that up to the law makers that the country elects into office. That is of course, their job, why they get paid, to make laws. I will also continue with MY personal beliefs no matter what the law is as will everybody else. I know what is right for MY life and will not pretend to know what is right for anybody else's.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I oppose abortion but do not oppose education and birth control...so let me make that clear please. I have not said once that we must make abortion ILLEGAL. I will leave that up to the law makers that the country elects into office. That is of course, their job, why they get paid, to make laws. I will also continue with MY personal beliefs no matter what the law is as will everybody else. I know what is right for MY life and will not pretend to know what is right for anybody else's.

Notice that I wrote

The same groups who oppose abortion in the USA, also usually oppose birth control and sex education that teaches responsible sex. These groups believe that sex can be controlled by teaching abstinence, although through out history, sex has never been curtailed by either law, schools or the church.

I was not referring to you or any other member, but to organized groups and not even to all of them. That is why I used the word usually.

[missy4gordon 0]

I didn't say you meant me specifically, I just wanted to put it out there for my own peace of mind.

[Wheetsin 714]

Keep rosaries away from ovaries.

[green 6]

Sex is, along with the instinct to preserve one's own life, probably the most powerful primal urge. It is part of our hardwiring and has to do with passing on our genetic code. Sex is up there with food and shelter. It is for this reason that counselling people who do not want children to remain abstinent does not work. It should be noted that the drive to have sex is strongest in the young, and this makes sense for it is when they are physically at their reproductive prime even though emotionally and economically they are not prepared for parenthood.

I believe that my counsel to teenagers would be to abstain but I would back this up with solid information on human sexuality and birth control methods. And I would never, ever have a woman suffer through an unwanted pregnancy in order to punish her for her sexuality. I remain entirely convinced that the issues involved in the termination of a pregnancy should remain between a woman and her doctor.

I must confess that I am especially scornful of old white male legislators who wade in on this question. What do they know about this issue? As we all know, the overweight deal with problems that are largely invisible to yer average person. And of course the story is the same whether you are a woman or a person of colour or someone who is handicapped or any other group with specific needs. Those groups must have their own authentic voice.

Employing this line of reasoning, I say that the right for each woman to choose must remain her right. Any woman who finds herself uncomfortable with electing to have an abortion may opt to keep her child or to give the child up to another couple. Such women are very special, there is no denying this, but not all women are capable of this.