Poll - Democrat or Republican?

ELENATION · November 8, 2007

Here's a good book for you to take a look at green, if you really want to know who and what Blackwater is:
"Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army" by Jeremy Scahill

I disagree that most of the people in Iraq are better off now than before we bombed them. Our occupation in Iraq hasn't made that country more peaceful or the people safe and prosperous.

As far as what we should have done in administrations before the current Bush came into office, I agree. We should have been able to remove Saddam before Bush came into office, but to that point no administration had been able to remove him for many reasons. It was not just Clinton who was unable to get rid of him.

I would have been all for getting rid of Saddam Hussein, the maniac. However from the day we bombed Bagdad until today, I have been against our military intervention there. We should have been able to remove him without an all out military declaration of war.

Now however, I believe we must do all we can to help restore some order and peace in Iraq. We owe it to them to not leave them in the middle of the mess we made there.

As for the WMD's that were in Iraq, we allowed him plenty of time to dispose of them before we invaded that country. The fact is that our intelligence said that they were gone before we bombed Iraq, Bush just wouldn't accept it! You still think that was "media hype"?

It makes me wonder how the history books will be written on this subject if the people who are here to watch it all unfold can't agree on what really happened.

I know this was not a reply directly to me but I'll add this anyway...

Yes, it was media hype!!!!!!!! there is always media hype!!!!!!!! I definitely believe that!

I also don't think that we declared war on "Iraq", we went there to get that maniac out, to make sure there were no WMD, he may have dipossed them before we went, it was not 100% guaranteed..

Restore the peace in Iraq? was there peace in Iraq before we went there? while Sadam was there? I don't think so.... Sadam as we all know was a dictator and had the people of Iraq oppressed, he killed his own people over and over, what kind of peace did they have? I think that the "mess" that they may have now is nothing compared to the attrocities that they had to live under Sadam's dictatorship...

I know it was not "just" Clinton who was unable , sorry, scratch "unable" and let me say gutless for not getting rid of him long time ago and long before we did it now...

I'll throw this in also...

The way you put it in your post and this is with all due respect and my opinion... but it reminds me of my native country of Cuba..

Castro, another dictator, very much brutal too, that continues to commit attrocities against the cuban people is still there and as a cuban that lives here now and lived there for 14 years, I wish that George Bush would've been there and would've gone in and taken that monster out, like we did in Iraq, my family and I and friends and many, many people I know would've appreciated it very much and would have been willing to risk their lives, their homes whatever it took to get rid of Castro, and believe me, many have died trying to get rid of him, or trying to live the island, dying from dehydration due to exposure on their drifting in the Caribbean for days, if people are willing to do that , don't you think they will be willing to put up with the consequences of an invasion that ultimately will free them from monsters like Sadam and Castro and a few others...I would think so...I also hope nobody says that Castro is not that bad and not to be compared with Sadam... because that would be a lie, in my opinion, Sadam, Castro and those few others should be put out. period, at any risk... even if we have to suffer consequences because they are murdering innocent people every day and I'm aware that it wasn't just in Iraq and Cuba, it happens in other places and they all should be stopped, it's unfortunate that we have to go into their countries sometimes to stop them, I'm sure we all wish there were other easier ways of doing it, but sometimes there aren't and we must do what must be done...

ELENATION · November 8, 2007

I agree, Elena, thank you for the reminder. It gets so easy to lose things in all the media hype. There was even a video recently on Youtube of Al Gore chastising Pres. Bush #1 about not going in and finishing off Saddam because of the dangers his WMD posed to our country. That was in 1992. How soon we forget!

Yes indeed....totally agree!

L8BloomR · November 9, 2007

Elena: Wow... what a story you have to share. Thank you! How easy for us to criticize things around us, while forgetting that we don't really know what true oppression and trouble is. It galls me so much to see our privileged Hollywood actors kissing the butts of Castro and Hugo Chavez, while their own populations are being oppressed and their rights destroyed. As much as we criticize things in this country, we should never forget how lucky we are to live here, in spite of our differences.

Thank you again for sharing your story. I love your passion and spunk!

Chris_NJ · November 9, 2007

People always say Iraq was better off before the invasion. Well that depends on who you ask over there. I am friends with an Iraqi and talk to him daily from there who happens to be an interpreter for the Marines. You ask him and he will say your crazy. You ask one of Saddam's Bathist supporters and yeah they hate it now. hmmmm I wonder why. Ask a Kurd if they are happy about Saddam being gone.The US isn't the ones causing the problems over there. Its the foreigners from the rest of the middle east using this country as a staging area against us. The mass civilians are not being killed by Americans. They are being killed by fellow Muslim extremists.

The question is .............. Who is it better for?

Thats like saying not to fight WW2 because people may have died for freedom. Remember freedom is never free.

L8BloomR · November 9, 2007

People always say Iraq was better off before the invasion. Well that depends on who you ask over there. I am friends with an Iraqi and talk to him daily from there who happens to be an interpreter for the Marines. You ask him and he will say your crazy. You ask one of Saddam's Bathist supporters and yeah they hate it now. hmmmm I wonder why. Ask a Kurd if they are happy about Saddam being gone.The US isn't the ones causing the problems over there. Its the foreigners from the rest of the middle east using this country as a staging area against us. The mass civilians are not being killed by Americans. They are being killed by fellow Muslim extremists.
The question is .............. Who is it better for?

Thats like saying not to fight WW2 because people may have died for freedom. Remember freedom is never free.

Good point, Chris. I remember hearing about Saddam's rape rooms, used by him and his two evil sons. They could just pick up any woman on the street, take her back, use and abuse her for as long as they want, then kill or abandon her. If she lived, she was then considered "used" and her life ruined. I also have seen some of the torture chambers they used routinely, for anyone who disagreed with them. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people died in them. My son was a Marine and still has military contacts and can tell some incredible stories. He is currently in Afghanistan and sees some amazing stories there, also.

ELENATION · November 9, 2007

Elena: Wow... what a story you have to share. Thank you! How easy for us to criticize things around us, while forgetting that we don't really know what true oppression and trouble is. It galls me so much to see our privileged Hollywood actors kissing the butts of Castro and Hugo Chavez, while their own populations are being oppressed and their rights destroyed. As much as we criticize things in this country, we should never forget how lucky we are to live here, in spite of our differences.
Thank you again for sharing your story. I love your passion and spunk!

Thank you much, yes, we have it made here, we really do and many don't realize it, I would trade the first 14 years of my life and my family and many cubans I know would too with the Iraqi people as they are now, at least there is a light at the end of the tunnel for them, a hope for a better future, cubans living there as of now can't see any light.... it's been close to 50 years of oppression... of killing innocent people, of people trying to escape the prison that it is living in Cuba and dying in the process.. if someone hasn't lived in my shoes, then please don't go there, no amout of books read or research will give you the real truth and horror of living under oppression of a dictator and the huge sacrifice that is done is worth it and appreciated by the people in those countries, I personally know people that have served in Iraq that testify how grateful and appreciative most people in Iraq are for us getting involved and freeing them from Sadam...

THese Hollywood people supporting Chavez and Castro are hypocrites, fools, ignorant and I can go on and on... they are out of touch with reality, they are millionaires and they don't have to worry about financial stability, they can travel all over the world as they please, unlike Iraqi people, or cubans or venezuelans, not onlyu they can travel by when they do it, they also bash our government and leaders and they get away with it, you don't see anybody from those oppressed countries travelling, they are not allowed to leave the country, and they can't even disagree with those dictators, not even inside their own country or they will be killed... what the heck those celebrities know? absolutely nothing.... they think that because they are famous they can say stupidities and people are going to listen and believe them, well, I don't, because I know the truth....

ELENATION · November 9, 2007

Good point, Chris. I remember hearing about Saddam's rape rooms, used by him and his two evil sons. They could just pick up any woman on the street, take her back, use and abuse her for as long as they want, then kill or abandon her. If she lived, she was then considered "used" and her life ruined. I also have seen some of the torture chambers they used routinely, for anyone who disagreed with them. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people died in them. My son was a Marine and still has military contacts and can tell some incredible stories. He is currently in Afghanistan and sees some amazing stories there, also.

Exactly! yet some believe that we "attacked" Iraq, declared "war on Iraq" "devastated their country" and we did all that for no good reason, just because we have an "evil" president that is also inept...yeah sure.... we did all that, people in Iraq had it so nice , easy, calm and peaceful there before.... how could we? give me a break, can they really and I mean REALLY look at reality, that was NOT the case, we went there for the right reasons, we went there with good intentions, we went there to do what we were supposed to do.

BJean · November 9, 2007

Ok I will admit that I have never lived under an evildoer like Castro or Saddam Hussein. And I do know that I would also want a country like the U.S. or Britain to come and kill an evil dictator to make my people free. I am completely sympathetic with your thoughts that you would be willing to give the lives of yourself and your family for freedom from Castro.

But I wonder if the reality of a war that has killed my family and put our home in ruins is actually the best way to get rid of an evil tyrant. Okay, maybe you're right and it's the ONLY way. Obviously Castro and Hussein have lived for many years with no way for their countrymen to unseat them.

But wait a minute... he said we were going into Afghanistan to get bin Laden. We have taken our Armed Forces into Afghanistan but have not rid the world of bin Laden. In fact, people in that part of the world have become even stronger in their hate against us. Osama bin Laden continues to taunt us with his video messages. Even more countries in the Middle East have become a threat to us while we have dropped bombs in Afghanistan and Iraq. Thousands of Americans have given their lives to rid the world of bin Laden and Hussein. Thousands of Iraqi people have given their lives and their country has been in turmoil for years - and it isn't over yet!

I can't help but wonder why everyone believes that the U.S. should police all of the countries in the world and clean them up - KILL - all of the bad guys. Because if you feel that it was okay to declare war on Iraq (yes it is WAR - unpleasant as that sounds), then you must believe that we should be occupying South Africa, Cuba, Pakistan, Iran, etc., etc., and on and on until we have nearly ALL of the power and resources of the entire world. That would make us good? That would make us right? Having us tell you how to run your country would be great? No chance of greedy Americans causing more deaths and destruction, just so long as the current tyrant is out of commission, right?

I sympathize with oppressed people and people who have been used, abused and unable to live a life of freedom. I do not share your beliefs however, that all Americans are pure of thought and deed. Some Americans are showing themselves to be very greedy people who believe that everyone on earth should be of one faith - their faith.

I am sorry for your country's plight under Castro. It is absolutely horrible. And that is putting it mildly. I support the U.S. going in and getting rid of him, but I know for sure that it is not only an issue of figuring out a practical way to unseat the man. It is also political and it is very complicated and there are a great many components to the politics involved. Just like in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Until we human beings understand how to communicate with each other, learn how to compromise, learn how to negotiate, learn how to support each other in our Quest for freedom for all people, we will be involved in war and fighting. Only when we allow each other freedom of thought and deed, freedom to live our lives on the soil where we were born, to own the ground we walk on and to worship who we wish without persecution, will we find real peace and real freedom.

I can't believe that we seem to have learned nothing from Viet Nam.

ELENATION · November 9, 2007

Ok I will admit that I have never lived under an evildoer like Castro or Saddam Hussein. And I do know that I would also want a country like the U.S. or Britain to come and kill an evil dictator to make my people free. I am completely sympathetic with your thoughts that you would be willing to give the lives of yourself and your family for freedom from Castro.
But I wonder if the reality of a war that has killed my family and put our home in ruins is actually the best way to get rid of an evil tyrant. Okay, maybe you're right and it's the ONLY way. Obviously Castro and Hussein have lived for many years with no way for their countrymen to unseat them.

But wait a minute... he said we were going into Afghanistan to get bin Laden. We have taken our Armed Forces into Afghanistan but have not rid the world of bin Laden. In fact, people in that part of the world have become even stronger in their hate against us. Osama bin Laden continues to taunt us with his video messages. Even more countries in the Middle East have become a threat to us while we have dropped bombs in Afghanistan and Iraq. Thousands of Americans have given their lives to rid the world of bin Laden and Hussein. Thousands of Iraqi people have given their lives and their country has been in turmoil for years - and it isn't over yet!

I can't help but wonder why everyone believes that the U.S. should police all of the countries in the world and clean them up - KILL - all of the bad guys. Because if you feel that it was okay to declare war on Iraq (yes it is WAR - unpleasant as that sounds), then you must believe that we should be occupying South Africa, Cuba, Pakistan, Iran, etc., etc., and on and on until we have nearly ALL of the power and resources of the entire world. That would make us good? That would make us right? Having us tell you how to run your country would be great? No chance of greedy Americans causing more deaths and destruction, just so long as the current tyrant is out of commission, right?

I sympathize with oppressed people and people who have been used, abused and unable to live a life of freedom. I do not share your beliefs however, that all Americans are pure of thought and deed. Some Americans are showing themselves to be very greedy people who believe that everyone on earth should be of one faith - their faith.

I am sorry for your country's plight under Castro. It is absolutely horrible. And that is putting it mildly. I support the U.S. going in and getting rid of him, but I know for sure that it is not only an issue of figuring out a practical way to unseat the man. It is also political and it is very complicated and there are a great many components to the politics involved. Just like in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Until we human beings understand how to communicate with each other, learn how to compromise, learn how to negotiate, learn how to support each other in our Quest for freedom for all people, we will be involved in war and fighting. Only when we allow each other freedom of thought and deed, freedom to live our lives on the soil where we were born, to own the ground we walk on and to worship who we wish without persecution, will we find real peace and real freedom.

I can't believe that we seem to have learned nothing from Viet Nam.

Interesting how you say that until we human beings learn to communicate with each other...

In my opinion, Sadam Hussein may have looked human, but inside is not... animals have a lot more care and compassion than he ever did, so the "we human beings" just doesn't work with these monsters... how many times was asked from Sadam to comply with the UN? did he behaved like a human being and did it? NO...

I personaly don't agree with negotiating with dictators or terrorists, it's totally worthless, a complete waste of time, I've seen it over and over... those people are savages, how do we negotiate with savages? impossible...

Until we are allowed freedom to live our lives on the soul we were born? that would be great, but it wasn't happening in Iraq, it;s not happening in Cuba, Venezuela and other countries... is it because of the US? or Bush? NO, it's because the dictators that are ruling there.. so that's also not an option available.. all the freedom talk that you did sounds great, but they are not real options in some cases like Iraq, Cuba, Venezuela, etc...

Are you really asking me if we should occupy Cuba, YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I think you knew the answer!

That would be such a blessing for the people of Cuba and they will appreciate it and many in the military serving for the US will perform their duty gladly and do it, our heroes that are in Iraq now are in the military because they wanted to be, they were not forced to... and most are happy to be serving their country, even if that involves helping another country in distress...

I don't think that war is the answer in every case, of course not, but sometimes, it is the only answer...and the lives that are lost from our country and others represent freedom, a better life, a future for many, it's a huge sacrifice, but it's also noble..

We tried to get Bin Laden, we keep trying.....do you doubt that we did try and still are trying? unfortunately things don't go always the way we plan or want, but please let's not blame our country, or our leaders for not trying and doing their job.

Do I care so much about our "reputation" among some countries in the middle east? not really, because they were our enemies before and will continue to be... I don't think they represent more of a threat for the US now than they did before... and no it isn't over, it will be over when THEY end their violence, ignorance, fanatic ways and craziness, until them if we have to keep fighting them, we should. I also rather we fight them there than in our own country... I wish that a peaceful solution was available and realistic with some of these dictators and groups, but unfortunately sometimes it's just not possible.

Thank you for feeling sympathetic with the oppressed people in the world.

ELENATION · November 9, 2007

Interesting how you say that until we human beings learn to communicate with each other...
In my opinion, Sadam Hussein may have looked human, but inside is not... animals have a lot more care and compassion than he ever did, so the "we human beings" just doesn't work with these monsters... how many times was asked from Sadam to comply with the UN? did he behaved like a human being and did it? NO...

I personaly don't agree with negotiating with dictators or terrorists, it's totally worthless, a complete waste of time, I've seen it over and over... those people are savages, how do we negotiate with savages? impossible...

Until we are allowed freedom to live our lives on the soul we were born? that would be great, but it wasn't happening in Iraq, it;s not happening in Cuba, Venezuela and other countries... is it because of the US? or Bush? NO, it's because the dictators that are ruling there.. so that's also not an option available.. all the freedom talk that you did sounds great, but they are not real options in some cases like Iraq, Cuba, Venezuela, etc...

Are you really asking me if we should occupy Cuba, YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I think you knew the answer!

That would be such a blessing for the people of Cuba and they will appreciate it and many in the military serving for the US will perform their duty gladly and do it, our heroes that are in Iraq now are in the military because they wanted to be, they were not forced to... and most are happy to be serving their country, even if that involves helping another country in distress...

I don't think that war is the answer in every case, of course not, but sometimes, it is the only answer...and the lives that are lost from our country and others represent freedom, a better life, a future for many, it's a huge sacrifice, but it's also noble..

We tried to get Bin Laden, we keep trying.....do you doubt that we did try and still are trying? unfortunately things don't go always the way we plan or want, but please let's not blame our country, or our leaders for not trying and doing their job.

Do I care so much about our "reputation" among some countries in the middle east? not really, because they were our enemies before and will continue to be... I don't think they represent more of a threat for the US now than they did before... and no it isn't over, it will be over when THEY end their violence, ignorance, fanatic ways and craziness, until them if we have to keep fighting them, we should. I also rather we fight them there than in our own country... I wish that a peaceful solution was available and realistic with some of these dictators and groups, but unfortunately sometimes it's just not possible.

Thank you for feeling sympathetic with the oppressed people in the world.

I'll add that the lives that are lost and the sacrifice that our military who are truly our heroes touches me deeply as my father was a veteran of WWII, he was also injured, and he was also proud, so very proud to serve this country, and yes he was born in Cuba, but lived here at the time and loved this country very much and volunteered. I do feel the pain of the lives that have been lost in wars...very close in my heart.

BJean · November 9, 2007

About bin Laden, the point that I was making is that NOTHING we've done, NO LIVES that have been lost, NO BOMBS that have been dropped, NO SEARCH missions, NOTHING that you say is the right answer or the correct action, has brought about the capture of bin Laden.

The administration has not been correct about this war, and this is accepted by about 3/4ths of the people in our country. (And most people all over the world.) Just because it makes us unpopular isn't a reason not to have done it. We shouldn't have done it for much more important reasons than that.

I can understand that people continue to support this president in spite of his actions because they want so badly to feel safe and protected and to not feel impotent when it comes to terrorists. But the fact is that this action in Iraq has not killed off the terrorists. And it never will.

For this administration to act as if Iraq could have taken over this country is their way of scaring Americans into supporting their actions. Just like them saying that if you are against our invasion of Iraq you are unAmerican and unpatriotic. Totally, patently, untrue.

Thank you for your compassion for all the fallen heros who have given their lives.

ELENATION · November 9, 2007

About bin Laden, the point that I was making is that NOTHING we've done, NO LIVES that have been lost, NO BOMBS that have been dropped, NO SEARCH missions, NOTHING that you say is the right answer or the correct action, has brought about the capture of bin Laden.
The administration has not been correct about this war, and this is accepted by about 3/4ths of the people in our country. (And most people all over the world.) Just because it makes us unpopular isn't a reason not to have done it. We shouldn't have done it for much more important reasons than that.

I can understand that people continue to support this president in spite of his actions because they want so badly to feel safe and protected and to not feel impotent when it comes to terrorists. But the fact is that this action in Iraq has not killed off the terrorists. And it never will.

For this administration to act as if Iraq could have taken over this country is their way of scaring Americans into supporting their actions. Just like them saying that if you are against our invasion of Iraq you are unAmerican and unpatriotic. Totally, patently, untrue.

Thank you for your compassion for all the fallen heros who have given their lives.

I completely disagree with you...

and because the actions, lives lost, or "bombs" have not led to the capture of Bin Laden, we should have never taken ANY action? or should we stop now? so we took actions, and haven't had a result capturing Binladen, we should've quit it all? ther is something called persistance... we keep trying...

Because YOU say that the administration has not been correct and some, and even if you want to say a lot of people around the world "think" that the administration has been wrong, it's not necessarily the truth... people around the world? the europeans...? most are socialist , that explains it... and besides, I'm not terrible concerned with what the rest of the world thinks of us, I've said this before and I'll say it again, the US has always been a target for many to envy our country, therefore hate our country... we help so much around the world, but still it's never enough for some...

I do think that our actions have shown a few lessons to terrorists....

But maybe if we sit down and try to talk and negotiate and communicate with Sadam(when he was alive) and with Castro and with Chavez, well, that should work.... I'm sure because they are such civil individuals...why wouldn't work? why not trying to find Bin Laden and sit down and have a talk with him too? hey, aren't we all human beings that should understand how to communicate and learn to get along? I'm sure that will teach them a lesson, not just to them but to terrorists as well...

And the reasons that you believe that theare are still some americans supporting our president are not accurate, just because you think that way doesn't mean it's true, I personally don't support him just because of that. I assure you.

You are welcome, I certainly have much compassion, My father almost lost his life when he served this country, so I should know a little bit about compassion for our heroes, my own father was one of them.

BJean · November 9, 2007

I never said we could or should "negotiate" with bin Laden, Castro or Hussein. I said we should take them out. But it is wrong for us to take thousands and thousands of people out to try to get them. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And to say that we've given terrorists a lesson - oh my God, at what price? Besides, do you really think terrorists can be taught a lesson by us? Come on, surely you don't believe that.

Thousands of people have lost their lives. Children have lost their parents - not you - I understand that your father was one of the lucky ones in WWII (thank God).

But thousands have lost their parents in this war. Families have felt the pain of this war all over the United States. And what exactly have we accomplished? We got rid of one man, a few of his cohorts, and we have had to hire mercanaries to help our depleted military do the job that needs to be done in Iraq due to OUR actions. Bush now threatens for us to invade Iran - killing more, pushing forward in a plan that will not accomplish what he tells us he wants to accomplish.

So why should we trust him? Why should we believe that the agenda he presents to the world is his real agenda? Don't you ever wonder at all about what's really going on? Do you feel that you would be a bad person if you ask the hard questions? Do you feel that he should be held accountable for the lost lives and limbs and property that has happened in Iraq? Why do you think that the horrors or 9/11 justify what we have done in Iraq? It has not given us the results that he promised. He just has not - no matter how much we wish that it were true. But people believe that he wanted it to be true so it's okay?

Some people believe that treaties and peace keeping and negotiations are pie in the sky thinking. Those things have worked before and hopefully we will have reasonable people in the White House and Congress again one day who believe in using brains instead of brawn in bringing peace to the world.

If you think that forcing terrorists and bad guys into believing in freedom for their people, or that we can bring one or two guys down with force and that it will fix those countries, you need to read the history on that part of the world.

ELENATION · November 9, 2007

I never said we could or should "negotiate" with bin Laden, Castro or Hussein. I said we should take them out. But it is wrong for us to take thousands and thousands of people out to try to get them. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And to say that we've given terrorists a lesson - oh my God, at what price? Besides, do you really think terrorists can be taught a lesson by us? Come on, surely you don't believe that.
Thousands of people have lost their lives. Children have lost their parents - not you - I understand that your father was one of the lucky ones in WWII (thank God).

But thousands have lost their parents in this war. Families have felt the pain of this war all over the United States. And what exactly have we accomplished? We got rid of one man, a few of his cohorts, and we have had to hire mercanaries to help our depleted military do the job that needs to be done in Iraq due to OUR actions. Bush now threatens for us to invade Iran - killing more, pushing forward in a plan that will not accomplish what he tells us he wants to accomplish.

So why should we trust him? Why should we believe that the agenda he presents to the world is his real agenda? Don't you ever wonder at all about what's really going on? Do you feel that you would be a bad person if you ask the hard questions? Do you feel that he should be held accountable for the lost lives and limbs and property that has happened in Iraq? Why do you think that the horrors or 9/11 justify what we have done in Iraq? It has not given us the results that he promised. He just has not - no matter how much we wish that it were true. But people believe that he wanted it to be true so it's okay?

Some people believe that treaties and peace keeping and negotiations are pie in the sky thinking. Those things have worked before and hopefully we will have reasonable people in the White House and Congress again one day who believe in using brains instead of brawn in bringing peace to the world.

If you think that forcing terrorists and bad guys into believing in freedom for their people, or that we can bring one or two guys down with force and that it will fix those countries, you need to read the history on that part of the world.

YOu know, I never said that "you " said to seat down and talk with Bin Laden, I was just trying to make a point... and the lesson that I believe we have taught to terrorists were taught while we were trying to accomplish other goals... so "the price" paid was for many other reasons..

I see that this is taking us no where, we don't agree, I don't see things the way you do, you may feel the way you do from your stand point, based on what you have seen on the news or heard through others, or read, I'm not sure, I guess we all feel we are right...I do think that your feelings are noble and we both and most, not all, but most do want what's best for everyone and we believe in different ways to find the solutions ,I feel the way I do because I lived through a regime like Sadam's , I was there, suffering along with my family and friends, and I have a feeling that if you would've been there with me, you would feel like I do, but who knows.... I don't think I'm right or wrong, I know that what I feel is based on the truth because I lived it... and the price is never to high to pay for freedom from opression, it seems to me that you believe you are right and that's all there is to it, but maybe I'm wrong.... maybe we are both very headstrong...

This statement "So why should we trust him? Why should we believe that the agenda he presents to the world is his real agenda? Don't you ever wonder at all about what's really going on? Do you feel that you would be a bad person if you ask the hard questions? Do you feel that he should be held accountable for the lost lives and limbs and property that has happened in Iraq? Why do you think that the horrors or 9/11 justify what we have done in Iraq? It has not given us the results that he promised. He just has not - no matter how much we wish that it were true. But people believe that he wanted it to be true so it's okay"

I really don't want to dignify with an answer.... I'm sorry...

Have a good day.

ELENATION · November 9, 2007

I never said we could or should "negotiate" with bin Laden, Castro or Hussein. I said we should take them out. But it is wrong for us to take thousands and thousands of people out to try to get them. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And to say that we've given terrorists a lesson - oh my God, at what price? Besides, do you really think terrorists can be taught a lesson by us? Come on, surely you don't believe that.
Thousands of people have lost their lives. Children have lost their parents - not you - I understand that your father was one of the lucky ones in WWII (thank God).

But thousands have lost their parents in this war. Families have felt the pain of this war all over the United States. And what exactly have we accomplished? We got rid of one man, a few of his cohorts, and we have had to hire mercanaries to help our depleted military do the job that needs to be done in Iraq due to OUR actions. Bush now threatens for us to invade Iran - killing more, pushing forward in a plan that will not accomplish what he tells us he wants to accomplish.

So why should we trust him? Why should we believe that the agenda he presents to the world is his real agenda? Don't you ever wonder at all about what's really going on? Do you feel that you would be a bad person if you ask the hard questions? Do you feel that he should be held accountable for the lost lives and limbs and property that has happened in Iraq? Why do you think that the horrors or 9/11 justify what we have done in Iraq? It has not given us the results that he promised. He just has not - no matter how much we wish that it were true. But people believe that he wanted it to be true so it's okay?

Some people believe that treaties and peace keeping and negotiations are pie in the sky thinking. Those things have worked before and hopefully we will have reasonable people in the White House and Congress again one day who believe in using brains instead of brawn in bringing peace to the world.

If you think that forcing terrorists and bad guys into believing in freedom for their people, or that we can bring one or two guys down with force and that it will fix those countries, you need to read the history on that part of the world.

BTW, before I decided to stop debating this subject with you I forgot to ask, were you being sarcastic when you said I was one of the lucky ones because I didn't lose my father in WWII?

I sincerely hope not.... I wasn't so lucky....right after I arrived to the US when I was 14, my father died suddenly, within a couple of months... so I do know what it is to live almost your whole life without a parent... and part of that time while I was still a child..I do know the pain, I wasn't so lucky...

One thing I know is that my father would've rathered die serving this country instead... he would've proudly... and if I could've picked, I would've also preferred it that way....