Poll - Democrat or Republican?

[steph_co 9]

steph: nice to see we have grammar and spelling police here! Much needed, right?

LOL...too true.

[~Trixie~ 0]

If you're voting that way to make some kind of protest or statement, there aren't too many people who are impressed or listening. You'd be better off figuring out which of the candidates of the major parties is better and go about working hard to do all you can to keep them honest. Using your voice and vote to be heard seems like our only hope. Politicians honestly do listen and respond to their constituents most of the time.

Who's the one kidding themselves?! Do you honestly believe that mainstream politicians actually care about what you have to say? Are you greasing their palms? If your answer is "no" to the last question then stop kidding yourself. Unless you are the leader of some special interest group that is feeding money into their pockets, then no, politicians are not listening to you. If you enjoy being a sheep, then that is your prerogative. However, I CHOOSE, as is my right, not to follow the flock. Not out of protest or in search of kudos from others, but because I feel very strongly about voting for the candidate that best represents my beliefs. Why the hell would I give my support to the "lesser of two evils." I have more respect for myself and freedom to do such a pathetically spineless thing.

[BJean 16]

The lesser of two evils? Ok, that may be - especially in your eyes. But if you think that voting for the man who is outside mainstream politics will truly make a difference, you're kidding YOURSELF. And if you think that voting for the man is not endorsing his political platform, you're also kdding yourself. If you do not agree with the platform that his/her party has adopted, and you vote for him because you like what he says, you're still getting the platform and all that it represents. I have no argument with you "voting for the man" just as long as you fully understand what you're getting in the process.

[BJean 16]

Point well taken, Jack.

As so many things in the corporate world across the country demonstrate, money is a very corrupting influence on people. But we are a capitalistic society and it has worked well for many years.

Do you think we will go the way of the Romans?

[green 6]

I believe that we do need a system based on capitalism for in such a system there are incentives to achieve and prosper. I also believe in the value of big business. It is only through utilising big production and distribution methods that items such as washing machines, dryers, televisions, computers, etc, are developed, manufactured and are affordable. Never before in history have the masses lived so well as we now do here in the West. Certainly Communism was a failure; only the apparachiks lived in any degree of luxury. All other citizens did without.

But money does have this tendency to corrupt and it is for this reason that Capitalism must be restrained in order that neither the workers nor the investors are taken advantage of. Strong unions, smart legislation, and both governmental and industry watchdogs are all necessary counterweights. It is important, I believe, to elect a government which will not pander to big business interests.

[green 6]

Who's the one kidding themselves?! Do you honestly believe that mainstream politicians actually care about what you have to say? Are you greasing their palms? If your answer is "no" to the last question then stop kidding yourself. Unless you are the leader of some special interest group that is feeding money into their pockets, then no, politicians are not listening to you. If you enjoy being a sheep, then that is your prerogative. However, I CHOOSE, as is my right, not to follow the flock. Not out of protest or in search of kudos from others, but because I feel very strongly about voting for the candidate that best represents my beliefs. Why the hell would I give my support to the "lesser of two evils." I have more respect for myself and freedom to do such a pathetically spineless thing.

I am finding this discussion very interesting. You see, up here in Canada our system is very different. We do have a number of parties and it is the leader of the party who has the most representatives elected - Members of Parliament - who becomes our head of state. Sometimes the members of the various opposition parties when added together outnumber the members in his party. This means that our Prime Minister governs with a minority as these parties can at anytime decide to vote en masse against a proposal made by his party and by doing this will bring his party down and thus force a new election. Our current Conservative government is a minority government.

What is also interesting is that voters who are disgusted by all the options available can register their displeasure by appearing at their polling stations, obtaining their ballots, and then announcing that they reject their ballots. Because the ballots have already been issued they must be counted and these formal refusals must be officially noted.

Perhaps it is possible that if a significant number of Americans do opt to vote for candidates who are neither Republican nor Democrat, both of these parties and the country itself will be aware that there a significant number of Americans who have feelings of alienation from the current status quo.

Of course I am commenting on all of this as a foreigner, one who does not really understand how your system works. Feel free to comment on my comments, eh.

[BJean 16]

Why yes green, if we were able to have our voices heard by voting for people who are not Democrats or Republicans, it would be a very worthwhile thing to do. However if you try to lodge your complaint by voting for a Liberatarian, you will ensure that your vote is counted but as for it having a voice, no one much listens.

It will take a huge mass of people in order to change this basically two party system. Liberatarians notwithstanding.

It isn't like it is in Canada. Big business pretty much owns the politicans (although not overtly in every case). Lobbyists have a lot of power. It is very difficult for individuals to get elected to public office in this country without very significant monetary backing. How do you win that backing? You promise to throw your vote their way. Or in the case of Ross Perot, you pay your own way. People voted for Ross Perot and their votes were wasted as far as the real picture was concerned. He had a snowball's chance of winning the Presidential election.

Unfortunately, having the nice, honest, sweet little person from some sweet little town, get elected and make important changes in this system is what is impossibly "pathetic" these days.

The closest thing we've had to that in my lifetime was sweet little Jimmy Carter and look how that turned out. He promised to fight big business's control over the Congress and he was virtually laughed out of office. People still speak of how ineffective a President he was.

Things are different here than in Canada. Not necessarily better, but certainly different.

And just because it makes you feel empowered because you are voting for "the man" - not the party - doesn't make it prudent to do so. And it certainly does nothing to ensure your freedom.

[green 6]

Thanx for your speedy feedback, BJean. I am, as I have said, a foreigner and my understanding of your electoral system is very, very shaky. My grasp of my own system is spotted with errors, I am sure.

By the way, I never really did get why Americans didn't like Jimmy Carter. Nor did, I suspect, many other average Canucks. But then my husband and I discovered when we were visiting Russia that the local folks detested Gorbachev and Ronald Reagan's good Canadian buddy, Brian Mulrooney, was certainly loathed by many in this country. Indeed, his leadership left the Conservative party in ruins and it took the right wing over a decade and a half to recover from his direction. Canada was effectively a one-party state, a Liberal party fiefdom for over 15 years post the Mulrooney years.

What outsiders see when they are looking in and what the residents see is often very, very different. Curious, isn't it?

Still, Carter seemed honest, decent, folksy, and God-fearing. These are all values which are prized by Americans, are they not?

[~Trixie~ 0]

There is absolutely no need to be so condescending, BJean.

BTW, I never stated that I was a Libertarian, just that out of all of the candidates vying for office, Ron Paul best portrays my views. And I stand behind my statement that he is "the man."

Green, it's people with mindsets like BJean who are keeping the control of the United States out of the hands of the people. It's really sad that those of an older generation have become so disillusioned with politics that they are willing to roll over and play dead, while the younger generation has to worry about living in a country, and by extension, a world that has a very bleak future due to the impotent nature of said older generation. It's sickening to know that as people age they feel the need to maintain the status quo at the detriment of future generations.

Of course, I mean no offense to you, Green, being that you yourself are middle aged, but the political climate here in the US is frustrating to put it mildly.

[green 6]

No offense taken, Trixie. I find it interesting that you like Ron Paul. There is another young member of this site who also likes Ron Paul.

I am an Obama fan. I believe that he would bring something fresh to the White House. I could be wrong, of course. I often am.

[BJean 16]

Trixie: I did not intend to come off as condescending. Did you mean to come off as insulting?

I do have strong feelings about politics in this country. One can't live through the past 7 years and not feel affected by politics here.

I was not stating that I prefer the two-party system or that I invented it or that I work at maintaining it. (Sorry that's how you interpreted what I wrote.) I only stated what I believe is true. If you and the people your age (which is?) want to make changes, I would welcome improvements, gladly! However, voting out of the mainstream or talking about it won't get the job done, no matter how strongly you personally feel about it.

I believe Jimmy Carter to be a pretty honest man, Green. He has been accused here of being an ineffective Past President. I find that curious. He goes all over the world trying to help people and governments. He helps monitor so-called elections in struggling countries. He has been lauded for his peace efforts and he has written books. What does it take in this country to gain respect?

Often times, people would like to believe that they are judging the man, when in fact they are judging his politics. I don't see how you can find George W. Bush, for instance, a good man in any way shape or form. He has proven himself to be a not very nice man at all. However he says and does what some people believe to be good politics for this country so they find his behavior acceptable and think he's not a bad person. He's just someone who has made a few mistakes. It is frustrating, Green, very frustrating.

[~Trixie~ 0]

I am an Obama fan. I believe that he would bring something fresh to the White House. I could be wrong, of course. I often am.

Obama is my number two.

[BJean 16]

Btw, Trixie I didn't mean to suggest that you are a Liberatarian. Someone earlier in the thread referenced that party. I was not directing my earlier post (which you found condescending), specifically to respond to your post.

Politics, like religion, is very personal. Sometimes it is difficult to take other viewpoints with a grain of salt, especially when you disagree with them, as you did mine. Hmmm, that's likely to be taken as condescending. Take it with a grain of salt... after all, I'm really, really, really old and no doubt my politics are completely mired in ancient history.

[angelic_1 0]

I AM ashamed of the liberalness of Bush!! I am conservative- Im not sure it falls cleanly into a party.

I do not support the democrat bigger government, increase taxes so we can have more social programs, give out more money to sit on your ass theory.

But I do believe in abortion for all purposes other than birth control, and the womans right to choose. Stop supporting illegal immigrants who do not pay into the system.

In the end it really doesnt matter which party you vote for since the person you elect doesnt seem to listen to constituents they do what they damn well please.

Ready for the flames since Im the miniority in this poll.:smile:

I am a conservative Republican woman in California. Talk about an anomoly!

I agree with you about most of what you said, but I think that we should not support illegal immigrants even if they pay into the tax system They are ILLEGAL.

But I mostly agree with whatever politician it is, they will do whatever they want without thought to what the constituents want....

[slackaction 0]

This year, both Groundhog Day and the State of the Union address occur on the same day. And, as it has been pointed out, "It is an ironic juxtaposition of events: one involves a meaningless ritual in which we look to a creature of little intelligence for prognostication, while the other involves a groundhog."