Poll - Democrat or Republican?

[L8BloomR 1]

My goodness, BJean... I don't know which thing to address first! How did Blackwater get into this discussion? Where did you get the idea that they would "take over" and make you worship at whatever church they choose? I know someone who worked for Blackwater. They protect VIPs and American interests. They help protect our military on important projects....and they risk their lives. They are NOT affiliated with any church. Where on earth did you HEAR that? This is too bizarre to even debate, sorry. Kind of reminds me of the 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

As for all the rest, look.... I suspect that you listen to and are responding to leftist blogs and readings that back up your suspicions and fears. It doesn't make you wrong in my opinion, just skewed in a certain direction. I realize that you obviously think the same of me. I try to read both sides of virtually everything, yet I still see things from a conservative viewpoint. I'm sure you try to see things from both sides, also, but you have a liberal view. We just come at things from a different direction. I don't think Pres. Bush is the worse thing to happen to this country. 9/11 DID change the country and its direction, but I think it is because we ignored a growing problem in the world and then had to take steps to deal with it. Therefore, I can't compare this presidency to any others. This is a different world. During WWII the president censored all anti-American movies and news. It was a time of crisis and he understood that we needed to pull together. Pres. Bush has not done that, yet he gets vilified every day for "destroying our civil rights". No one has ever been able to give me an example of how their personal rights have been destroyed. It has become a catch phrase and a bumper sticker, but with no meat. I do understand how hearing these kinds of similar accusations over and over can get someone worked up, but I just don't see that Bush is the villain you and others make him out to be.

There is no point in debating this yet again. You see things from your side, I see them from mine. It just really bothers me that you feel that because someone supports a certain political party they can't be trusted, which is what you said in your previous post. I have to trust that the majority of people, no matter what party, do try to do the right thing.

[green 6]

What is Blackwater?

[L8BloomR 1]

What is Blackwater?

Blackwater is a private security company that supports American interests here and in other countries. There was just a big story about them being involved in a shootout in Iraq in which civilians were killed. Blackwater says its guards came under attack and fired back, the Iraqis say they were fired on unprovoked.

The guy I know who worked for Blackwater until recently says there is no way the guards would have fired first. Their first line of duty is to get the person (s) they are protecting safely to their destination. They would not fire on anyone or anything unless absolutely necessary because that would attract attention and delay their goal. Also, he says that because the snipers hide behind innocent people and then fire on them, they try very hard to not shoot into a crowd.

[BJean 16]

Do you know anything about the man who is the head of Blackwater? Do you know about their base of operations in the U.S.? Do you know they are posturing to have another base in California? Do you know how well they are equipped? I will admit that suggesting that they could ever stage a coup in the U.S. is a pretty far out suggestion, if you will admit that they could one day attempt take over if they wanted to.

I respect that you know a person who was personally an employee of Blackwater and you trust that Blackwater is no threat to people who do not share their leader's beliefs. I sure wish I felt as comfortable with that group as you do.

Frankly, I resent the fact that we are in the position where we need to pay mercenaries to do some of the work that the military should be doing in Iraq. I resent that we pay them more than we pay the men and women in our armed forces.

If declaring war on Iraq had done anything to get rid of the Taliban and Osama bin Laden, we would have all thought Bush just did what had to be done. In retrospect I don't think anyone believes that attacking Iraq was the right thing to do. Right now we're in the position of trying to not walk out on a country and a people that we have devastated.

I don't trust our current leaders as far as I can throw them. Just as you didn't trust Clinton as far as you could throw him.

I'm only venting here because I sometimes feel so frustrated that I feel I must speak out.

I am very sorry if it came across as attacking you personally. I definitely have no quarrel with you personally. I have the utmost respect for you and the way you conduct yourself here at LBT. The reason politics came up is because you mentioned a "non-partisan" study that sounded very partisan and very ludicrious to me. It made me feel frustrated again. I just didn't feel that I wanted to ignore it.

[ELENATION 0]

Do you know anything about the man who is the head of Blackwater? Do you know about their base of operations in the U.S.? Do you know they are posturing to have another base in California? Do you know how well they are equipped? I will admit that suggesting that they could ever stage a coup in the U.S. is a pretty far out suggestion, if you will admit that they could one day attempt take over if they wanted to.

I respect that you know a person who was personally an employee of Blackwater and you trust that Blackwater is no threat to people who do not share their leader's beliefs. I sure wish I felt as comfortable with that group as you do.

Frankly, I resent the fact that we are in the position where we need to pay mercenaries to do some of the work that the military should be doing in Iraq. I resent that we pay them more than we pay the men and women in our armed forces.

If declaring war on Iraq had done anything to get rid of the Taliban and Osama bin Laden, we would have all thought Bush just did what had to be done. In retrospect I don't think anyone believes that attacking Iraq was the right thing to do. Right now we're in the position of trying to not walk out on a country and a people that we have devastated.

I don't trust our current leaders as far as I can throw them. Just as you didn't trust Clinton as far as you could throw him.

I'm only venting here because I sometimes feel so frustrated that I feel I must speak out.

I am very sorry if it came across as attacking you personally. I definitely have no quarrel with you personally. I have the utmost respect for you and the way you conduct yourself here at LBT. The reason politics came up is because you mentioned a "non-partisan" study that sounded very partisan and very ludicrious to me. It made me feel frustrated again. I just didn't feel that I wanted to ignore it.

You cannot be serious when you say that we "attacked" Iraq and that we devastated their poeple, in my opinion, we went to Iraq looking for weapons of mass destruction, that even though were not found, it was believed Hussein had them , even by Clinton.. and Hussein did not comply with the UN over and over again , as far as I'm concerned, we have helped greatly the people from Iraq..

[ELENATION 0]

My goodness, BJean... I don't know which thing to address first! How did Blackwater get into this discussion? Where did you get the idea that they would "take over" and make you worship at whatever church they choose? I know someone who worked for Blackwater. They protect VIPs and American interests. They help protect our military on important projects....and they risk their lives. They are NOT affiliated with any church. Where on earth did you HEAR that? This is too bizarre to even debate, sorry. Kind of reminds me of the 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

As for all the rest, look.... I suspect that you listen to and are responding to leftist blogs and readings that back up your suspicions and fears. It doesn't make you wrong in my opinion, just skewed in a certain direction. I realize that you obviously think the same of me. I try to read both sides of virtually everything, yet I still see things from a conservative viewpoint. I'm sure you try to see things from both sides, also, but you have a liberal view. We just come at things from a different direction. I don't think Pres. Bush is the worse thing to happen to this country. 9/11 DID change the country and its direction, but I think it is because we ignored a growing problem in the world and then had to take steps to deal with it. Therefore, I can't compare this presidency to any others. This is a different world. During WWII the president censored all anti-American movies and news. It was a time of crisis and he understood that we needed to pull together. Pres. Bush has not done that, yet he gets vilified every day for "destroying our civil rights". No one has ever been able to give me an example of how their personal rights have been destroyed. It has become a catch phrase and a bumper sticker, but with no meat. I do understand how hearing these kinds of similar accusations over and over can get someone worked up, but I just don't see that Bush is the villain you and others make him out to be.

There is no point in debating this yet again. You see things from your side, I see them from mine. It just really bothers me that you feel that because someone supports a certain political party they can't be trusted, which is what you said in your previous post. I have to trust that the majority of people, no matter what party, do try to do the right thing.

I just recently heard about Blackwater, I never knew about it.... but from what I read from the previous post, it did remind me of the 911 conspiracy theorists....

[ELENATION 0]

That is really too bad. There has been corruption in both political parties, including in Florida. Then there is Massachusetts, New Jersey, and many other places that the Democrats have done corrupt things. (I'm from Mass., originally.) John Kennedy's election was bought, if you believe the reports from people who were there. Many, many Democrats have "won" elections from antics by powerful labor unions and the like. Neither party is immune. I became a Republican during the Carter years, not that I thought he was corrupt, just inept. I don't distrust "anyone" just because they are from another political party. Ithink it is better to try to focus on what is good, because no one person or one party is all bad. To me, Clinton was dispicable, and not because of Monica. But I still try to trust Democrats when they attempt to do the right thing, even if I don't like their methods. To distrust an entire party or everyone in it because of an administration you don't like is just sad, IMO.

Hey, I lived in Florida at the time, as a matter of fact, I lived in South FLorida... those allegations are not entirely accurate and they are blown out of proportion and even so, not worst by far than the John Kennedy election...

[green 6]

Elena, it was me who asked about Blackwater. I hadn't heard of it before.

[ELENATION 0]

Elena, it was me who asked about Blackwater. I hadn't heard of it before.

Yes, I know that....

[green 6]

I still don't understand enough about Blackwater to comment cogently on it.

[L8BloomR 1]

Do you know anything about the man who is the head of Blackwater? Do you know about their base of operations in the U.S.? Do you know they are posturing to have another base in California? Do you know how well they are equipped? I will admit that suggesting that they could ever stage a coup in the U.S. is a pretty far out suggestion, if you will admit that they could one day attempt take over if they wanted to.

I respect that you know a person who was personally an employee of Blackwater and you trust that Blackwater is no threat to people who do not share their leader's beliefs. I sure wish I felt as comfortable with that group as you do.

Frankly, I resent the fact that we are in the position where we need to pay mercenaries to do some of the work that the military should be doing in Iraq. I resent that we pay them more than we pay the men and women in our armed forces.

If declaring war on Iraq had done anything to get rid of the Taliban and Osama bin Laden, we would have all thought Bush just did what had to be done. In retrospect I don't think anyone believes that attacking Iraq was the right thing to do. Right now we're in the position of trying to not walk out on a country and a people that we have devastated.

I don't trust our current leaders as far as I can throw them. Just as you didn't trust Clinton as far as you could throw him.

I'm only venting here because I sometimes feel so frustrated that I feel I must speak out.

I am very sorry if it came across as attacking you personally. I definitely have no quarrel with you personally. I have the utmost respect for you and the way you conduct yourself here at LBT. The reason politics came up is because you mentioned a "non-partisan" study that sounded very partisan and very ludicrious to me. It made me feel frustrated again. I just didn't feel that I wanted to ignore it.

BJean: You know that I feel the same about you and that is why I really do want to understand your point of view. I don't think of you as a rabid, knee-jerk kind of person and I know our "sparring" will end with us both feeling like we got something beneficial from the discussion.

Now, I do understand why you would question the accuracy of a study in which your side appears less charitable than the other. But honestly, if the study had come out showing the reverse to be true, do you think you would feel the same suspicion? :confused: That is why I gave the link and the particulars of the person and university doing the study. And I only gave this information because of the previous debate you were having about how Democrats care more about other people than Republicans. Wouldn't you take offense to that, if it were said in reverse? All I am trying to show here is that neither side is evil...both sides think they are the better one or they wouldn't belong to that side!

As for Blackwater, I see them as no more than any other company providing an important but sometimes unpleasant service. There are many companies run by former Navy Seals and other military people, I don't see this one as any different. Blackwater contracts with our government, like many other companies do. And from what I have seen from our friend who worked there, they pick the cream of the crop... they weed out the "cowboys" and thrill seekers and send the ones they do keep for intensive training to teach them how to avoid using unnecessary force or violence. Our friend was so impressed with their work ethic and the training. As I said above, I really don't believe the "incident" that happened recently was the fault of the Blackwater guys. They would have no reason to shoot up an intersection unless attacked...they need to get the person in their protection to their destination, not create a dangerous situation. And they do get shot at by insurgents hiding behind civilians...and they are often their primary target. We can debate forever the merits of our military relying on private companies to help them with security, but for now this is what they need and I'm glad they are getting the help.

I am not particularly happy with either political party at this time, but I don't see Republicans as being run by the extreme right-wing, just as apparently you don't see yours as being taken over by the far-left! So no matter how much we argue this point, I will not see what you see as I am sure you wouldn't see what I see, either. So we again have to agree to disagree. I would just hope that the inflammatory, "your side is terrible" stuff (not singling you out, many people here do it on both sides) would lessen... One thing I have learned in my old age is that most people are decent and want what is best for others. On both sides. And all areas in between....

Friends? :wave:

[L8BloomR 1]

You cannot be serious when you say that we "attacked" Iraq and that we devastated their poeple, in my opinion, we went to Iraq looking for weapons of mass destruction, that even though were not found, it was believed Hussein had them , even by Clinton.. and Hussein did not comply with the UN over and over again , as far as I'm concerned, we have helped greatly the people from Iraq..

I agree, Elena, thank you for the reminder. It gets so easy to lose things in all the media hype. There was even a video recently on Youtube of Al Gore chastising Pres. Bush #1 about not going in and finishing off Saddam because of the dangers his WMD posed to our country. That was in 1992. How soon we forget!

[crystalcml 0]

I fall along the lines of an independent but I vote democrat most of the time.

[Chris_NJ 9]

I still don't understand enough about Blackwater to comment cogently on it.

Blackwater is a private security company which employs mostly former US special forces military personnel. They are hired for protection of things like civilian food convoys, guarding political figures and dignitaries. There were even hired during hurricane Katrina for humanitarian assistance. They do those types of jobs so our troops can do the jobs that need to be done like civilian security and rooting out terrorists. Private security contractors have been used for years and now its just a big deal due to the news media. Blackwater themselves have been around since 1997.

Here is some more information on them...

Blackwater Worldwide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[BJean 16]

Here's a good book for you to take a look at green, if you really want to know who and what Blackwater is:

"Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army" by Jeremy Scahill

I disagree that most of the people in Iraq are better off now than before we bombed them. Our occupation in Iraq hasn't made that country more peaceful or the people safe and prosperous.

As far as what we should have done in administrations before the current Bush came into office, I agree. We should have been able to remove Saddam before Bush came into office, but to that point no administration had been able to remove him for many reasons. It was not just Clinton who was unable to get rid of him.

I would have been all for getting rid of Saddam Hussein, the maniac. However from the day we bombed Bagdad until today, I have been against our military intervention there. We should have been able to remove him without an all out military declaration of war.

Now however, I believe we must do all we can to help restore some order and peace in Iraq. We owe it to them to not leave them in the middle of the mess we made there.

As for the WMD's that were in Iraq, we allowed him plenty of time to dispose of them before we invaded that country. The fact is that our intelligence said that they were gone before we bombed Iraq, Bush just wouldn't accept it! You still think that was "media hype"?

It makes me wonder how the history books will be written on this subject if the people who are here to watch it all unfold can't agree on what really happened.