Is the lap band healthy?

[rachele 0]

There's also the quality of life to be considered and any accompanying health issues. My quality of life is awesome. 30 lbs from goal and looking and feeling great. I can eat things now I never could with a band.

I recently met a DS patient. She, too, is thrilled with her surgery. She's thin and, I think, actually looks pretty good. But when she talks to people about how great DS is, she fails to mention that she's had 3 IV transfusions of Iron because she gets dangerously anemic. It happens. It was a trade off I was willing to make, should it happen. It's not the norm though. And everyone knows someone who knows someone....

At a recent presentation by a plastic surgeon specializing in WLS patients, she stressed that WLS patients *always* have more post-op problems than non-WLS patients. She said that drains usually have to be in longer, incisions don't heal as quickly, and results just aren't as good. Her practice deals mostly with DS and RNY patients. When I asked her if she noticed a difference with banded patients, she wouldn't answer because she said it'd be "controversial within the group." Of course, the group was all RNY and DS except for me. Hmmm, I wonder what she was trying to say? :confused: Could've been anything. She could've been trying to be considerate to you because not alot of their practice is with banded patients. Wonder why? Hmmmm....I mean your implying some pretty negative things here....

I don't care how many times and ways someone tries to convince me that RNY or DS is the "better" surgery because you're more likely to get to your goal weight, I'm not buying it. Getting to my goal weight wasn't the only reason I needed WLS. I want to have a healthier life and be here for my children longer. Just reading the FAQs for DS (http://duodenalswitch.com/faq/faq.html#13) is enough to convince me that DS isn't much better than RNY. Here are some highlights:

Well, that sounds pleasant. This can be controlled by eating low carb. Last I checked, BM and Gas stink, no matter what surgery you had.

Just another indication of malabsorption. I love it! You know, not every person is a one size fits all for a purely restrictive proceedure.

I have yet to read ANY recommendations with lapbanding for "needing" to take a Multivitamin (it's always recommended for everyone), or extra Calcium or Iron. No need for extra Protein or labs to check Vitamin and mineral levels, either. Nope, but no need to get fills 8 times a year, scopes, not to mention countless upper GI's, or to carry a baggie around just in case I PB somewhere inconvenient. Or the worry of slippage, erosion, esophogial dismotility, etc, etc, etc. And yes, ALL women should be taking something. It is proven that we are not getting all we need through our food, even non ops. This far out, labs get checked once a year, which is the recommendation for every person. Physical, GYN and Levels, once a year.

So, add extra Protein to the Multivitamin, Calcium, and iron regimens along with making sure that your time-released meds are absorbed properly.

Sounds pleasant, doesn't it? What's pleasant is being active, healthy and happy.

The only thing that I have to modify with the Lapband are my *behaviors.* I have to eat more slowly, take smaller bites, and not drink with my meal. No need for extra protein, calcium, or iron, no need to worry about excessive flatulence or diarrhea, no need to worry that my labs need checking. You can't deny the worry that something may go wrong that is out of your control. We have had many slippages and erosions here that were no fault of the banded person. Honestly, I don't worry about anything. Just enjoying my life and doing things I never have before.

Cindy

No one surgery is right for everyone, but don't promote yours by knocking mine down. You shouldn't judge until you've sit in an office and heard your surgeon say "It's gotta come out, what do you want to do?" And believe me, the behavior modifications you are speaking of are not as easy to do with the band gone. Just ask.

[susieq321 31]

I have been in the surgeons office and heard if it slips again it has to come out and then to hear it is coming out for 6 months.... you are absolutely right eating like a banded person when your band is out isn't always easy. But by exercising some self restraint you can keep most of the weight off while you are waiting for another surgery.

The band isn't for everyone, I fully agree with that. But I still think unless you have a reaction to the band it is the safest option that exists for perm. WLS options. I still think that there are people out there whose behavior is the reason they have issues with the band. But I also think the majority of band issues are the band itself or the surgerical placement.

I think there are a lot of people out there who opt to leave the band expecting other WLS just to be that much easier to lose the weight and maintain... and from what I have seen from the people I know that just isn't true. All the people I know who switched from the band to the RNY are still morbidly obese, the second surgery didn't help them lose more.. they weren't ready to change their patterns and behavior.

Now the opposite of that seems to be true of the people I know who have added the band to the RNY surgery. They seem to be losing well and getting to their goals.

I think if mentally you are ready to work with the band, the odds are you aren't going to be mentally ready to work with any surgery. If your band comes out for medical reasons and your surgeon suggests something else, or you just can't face being banded again by all means get something else... hell I know I would be getting an alternate surgery if my band came out and couldn't go back in. I don't think I would opt for the DS or RNY since they seem to drastic to me. Right now it would be the sleeve but I would need to do some serious investigation before I agreed to that surgery.

It is individual, I just hope the people who are on here after lapband removal are just not on here to say how unhappy they are but on boards that support them and give them the information that they need to cope with the alternate surgery they opted for. Personally I would have just left the band boards behind if my band was out and not going back and joined things that supported my choices rather than a board that obiviously will be proband.

[GeezerSue 7]

I find it sort of ironic when people measure the success of a particular type of WLS by whether or not someone achieves their goal. ...

Actually, "success" is a medical term and refers to the loss of at least fifty percent of one's excess weight. People who lose less than 50% of their excess weight--with any surgery--are declared as having had a "failed" procedure.

I used to work with an RNY patient. She was thrilled with her surgery because she was thin. Her saggy skin, poorcomplexion and gray, wasted look didn't seem to matter. Then, she started passing out at work. Evidently, her insulin and sugar levels were going haywire. This was a problem for quite a while...I don't know if it was ever resolved because I no longer work with her.

She was apparently not on a decent diet. With the band, I COULD NOT be on a decent diet, because of the damage the band was causing. The problem here is--like it is becoming with the band as more people get their insurance to cover it--that people have wls and expect to just carry on as though nothing had happened. You can't do THAT with ANY wls.

I recently met a DS patient. She, too, is thrilled with her surgery. She's thin and, I think, actually looks pretty good. But when she talks to people about how great DS is, she fails to mention that she's had 3 IV transfusions of Iron because she gets dangerously anemic.

Yeah, my Iron came back a bit low at my one-year labs. I panicked. And then I pulled my PRE-DS labs...the ones done while I was banded and couldn't eat a decent diet. My iron was in better shape post-DS than it was with the band.

But you know, it depends on where you started. If someone who weighed 350+ and was on her way to an early death has had three iron infusions but other than that can WALK, can GET OUT OF A CHAIR, can TIE HER SHOES, can DUMP THE CPAP MACHINE, can LOSE THE INHALER, etc all for the price of a few hours of iron infusions...well, I know which one I'd choose.

About iron...when banded I couldn't eat most iron-containing meats. I couldn't eat Cereal. Last night, I had top sirloin steak for dinner (which contains 25% of the MRD of iron) and I'm about to have a bowl of Trader Joe's Raisin Bran (which contains 60% of the MDR of iron) for MY FIRST Breakfast. (Later on, there will probably be a cheese omelette and a little bacon.) In other words, my diet post-DS is probably healthier in that I CAN eat things that contain iron...I just have to be careful to eat enough. (Now THERE'S a problem I can live with.)

At a recent presentation by a plastic surgeon specializing in WLS patients, she stressed that WLS patients *always* have more post-op problems than non-WLS patients. She said that drains usually have to be in longer, incisions don't heal as quickly, and results just aren't as good. Her practice deals mostly with DS and RNY patients. When I asked her if she noticed a difference with banded patients, she wouldn't answer because she said it'd be "controversial within the group." Of course, the group was all RNY and DS except for me. Hmmm, I wonder what she was trying to say?

Easy! She was trying to say that--on a percentage basis--not enough banded people actually get to a low enough weight that saggy skin is a problem. I was banded in 2002. I know LOTS of banded people--in person, even. MANY if not MOST of them are still on the high end of "Obese," and a good number remain "Morbidly Obese." Sure...SOME do well. But the "success rate" (see above) is not high enough that the juice (so to speak) is worth the squeeze.

I don't care how many times and ways someone tries to convince me that RNY or DS is the "better" surgery because you're more likely to get to your goal weight, I'm not buying it. Getting to my goal weight wasn't the only reason I needed WLS. I want to have a healthier life and be here for my children longer....

And, if you lose enough weight with the band to be healthy and if you don't have complications, things will be just as you have planned. My best friend is from Alabama. She often says, "If we had ham, we could have ham and eggs...if we had eggs."

Just reading the FAQs for DS (http://duodenalswitch.com/faq/faq.html#13) is enough to convince me that DS isn't much better than RNY...

Your comments show me that you either just don't "get" what is being said or you choose to factor out the reality of Morbid Obesity.

So, does my poop stink?

Yes, unfortunately, it does. So I had to cancel all the gatherings I had where I invited other people in to smell my shit. ??? Who CARES if it stinks? They make room deodorizer for a reason and if I'm really concerned I can take a Pepto-Bismol tablet. What REALLY counts in my bathroom is that I can now wipe my own ass without contortions.

And you wrote "just another indication of malabsorption" as though it's a BAD thing.

Uh...that's what makes the surgery WORK. It is a "malabsorptive procedure."

You write: I have yet to read ANY recommendations with lapbanding for "needing" to take a multivitamin (it's always recommended for everyone), or extra Calcium or iron. No need for extra Protein or labs to check Vitamin and mineral levels, either.

And therein lies a real problem. As I said, my labs were better post-DS. Why? Because, since the band is restrictive and not malabsorptive, people (doctors and patients) FOOLISHLY assume that their post-banding diets are healthy. Too bad THAT'S a false assumption. And the problem gets worse for those who consistently barf up their meals (lovingly called PB'ing...bullshit, it's vomiting without the stomach acids, vomiting anyway.) THOSE people may have really off-kilter labs and have no clue...because they all think that since the band SURGERY (that one-hour part of the process) is so safe, everthing that happens after the surgery is safe. Not so.

Lactose Intolerance Problems?

First, I'm not a big fan of cow's milk...I think it's for baby cows. I RARELY fed it to my kid, since a number of ethnic groups (and I'm one of them) have lactose intolerance problems. But, since the Dairy Lobby is SO successful and so many people think it's essential, I'll tell you the seret. The more FAT there is in a dairy product, the less lactose there is. So, while I avoid non-fat and low-fat milk like the plague, I'm sitting here drinking coffee with half-and-half...sometimes I use cream.

The only thing that I have to modify with the Lapband are my *behaviors.* I have to eat more slowly, take smaller bites, and not drink with my meal. No need for extra Protein, calcium, or iron, no need to worry about excessive flatulence or diarrhea, no need to worry that my labs need checking.

And that experience is valid because it is YOUR experience. MY experience includes not having been able to eat a salad for the three years I had a band, and having to know how much bread was hidden in someone's meatloaf or crabcakes, so that I didn't barf up gobs of slimy mucous. It meant that I was "plugged up" after two bites of broiled fish and all i could "eat" (while feeling famished) was a little coffee or something that would melt on the way down...like ice cream. It meant having esophageal damage and having to have the band removed...so, in my case, no, the band was not "healthy."

But then NO wls surgery is without its faults and risks to our health. It's just that with the DS, the problems I have (see poop above) are accompanied by a 98 pound weight loss. I'm still "obese," with a BMI of 32, but when I got out of Basic Training in the Army (and that process doesn't produce a lot of fat people) my BMI hovered between 24 and 25, with is either normal or overweight...so I'm not aiming for a BMI of 22 or anything and I'm still losing. It will be reassuring for some people (and they usually PM me to learn more and I welcome those inquiries) that, if the band was the wrong choice for them, there ARE other options.

Sue

[kwhenrykerr 0]

I like Hats, but the ones that say "one size fits all" almost always fit poorly.

[rachele 0]

"I think there are a lot of people out there who opt to leave the band expecting other WLS just to be that much easier to lose the weight and maintain... and from what I have seen from the people I know that just isn't true. All the people I know who switched from the band to the RNY are still morbidly obese, the second surgery didn't help them lose more.. they weren't ready to change their patterns and behavior. "

I would have to respectfully disagree with you here. Personally, I believe the band is more of a tool for weight loss, where other malabsorbtion proceedures are a method. Bottom line is, I've done both. The band will hold your hand, but the hard work is squarely on the patients shoulders. They do surgery on your belly, not your brain. Compared to a band, the rny or ds weight loss is easy. If I were in a burning building, I want the easiest way out. I tried the hard way, and got burned. I believe it takes an exceptionally motivated, strong willed person to get to goal with a large amount of weight to lose with the band. It is tough, tougher than I was! But even some of those people have been faced with their worst fear, losing their band. Some have been successful in maintaining their loss after removal. Alot have not. It's hard when you're a food addict. Even those who believe they have their demons tamed find them sneaking back out with no restriction or removal.

"It is individual, I just hope the people who are on here after lapband removal are just not on here to say how unhappy they are but on boards that support them and give them the information that they need to cope with the alternate surgery they opted for. Personally I would have just left the band boards behind if my band was out and not going back and joined things that supported my choices rather than a board that obiviously will be proband."

My journey and experience with my band and revision validate my choice to post on this board. If I can bring something to the post that I deem important, I will. Especially when I see misinformation, fingerpointing and cherry picking. Facts are facts. Experiences/journeys are priceless. If I can help one person from thinking they are a failure or reassure them their intestines will not fall out, and they won't explode from noxious gases if they decide to have another surgery beside the band, than I'm happy. There will be people who want me to go away here, Simply because I didn't have the same experience they have and they don't agree with me. That's just silly. Reading back, yes, I would seem negative toward the band, actually I'm trying to get people to see the whole picture. You can see alot more with a few views than just one, and you can also see alot more with an open mind than a closed one.

I frequent many boards, the best one being www.wlsforum.org I have been involved with that community since 2002 when it was Spotlight Health. Why is it the best? Because all surgeries are represented there, and we learn as a community, yet still small enough that you are not "LOST" in the crowd like obesityhelp. If misinformation is posted, someone will be quick to point it out, even if it wasn't their surgery of choice. There are far less misconceptions about other surgeries, because as we get to know and support each other, we are also educated. Our destination is the same, although we may have choosen to take different paths. As far as band revisions go, there are 3 band to DS, 1 band to sleeve, and 2 band to rny (and one in process). Oh, and none of those have failed to lose weight with the revisional surgery. And one cannot have another surgery because of nerve damage during her band surgery. Her name is Nicci. There are more than a handful that have reached goal and maintain. There are many frustrated people who haven't.

And as Forest Gump would say "That's all I have to say about that."

[susieq321 31]

I have no problem with disagreement, I can speak for what I know. I never said anything about noxious gas or discharge etc from any other surgery. I wouldn't try and scare people from another surgery. I just know what worked for me, I know what I have seen with the people I know, personally. All our experiences in this world are shaped by what we know. My knowledge is enhanced by my surgeon knowledge and discussions I have had with him. In his experience he has found patients who revise to RNY from the band do not do well. (He doesn't do DS he finds it too risky a surgery) And he does do the sleeve so far those patients he revises from a band to a sleeve seem to be doing well from what he told me, . I actually just reccomended a sleeve to a patient whose body is reacting badly to the band. My comment was specifically to revised RNY patients, nothing else. The ones I know are still morbidly obese, are are still no where near any of their goals and are struggling with a variety of areas.

I actually believe that anyone can lose weight, hell just about everyone on this board has lost weight and gained it back over time hence we resorted to WLS. The band is nice for weight loss but it is amazing for long term maintenance. It helps you maintain, if you have a good fill level letting you eat reasonable healthy amounts, if something changes you can de-fill or go tighter.

I do honestly believe that with all the complications I had with my band if that had been another other surgery I would be dead right about 3 years ago. At least with the band a slip is fixable, with other surgeries a complication may result in complications that are not as easily fixable.

And no the band won't magically change your brain, neither will any other surgery. Dealing with why you eat, how you eat, what you eat, when you eat and where you eat is tough work no matter what surgery you get. No matter what choice you make it is hard work that can take a lifetime to master for some.

[kwhenrykerr 0]

healthy discussion - exchanging ideas and information - Thank You

[rachele 0]

Thank you, kwhenrykerr. I love "I like Hats, but the ones that say "one size fits all" almost always fit poorly." I may have to steal it for a future post!

Susie, I could go on forever, even though the banter is educational, I'll pass. I do agree with alot of what you wrote, just not all, and that's ok. I wish you continued success in your journey, congrats on being so close to goal.

I did want to add that the DS can be risky for patients that have a lower BMI, but most doctors pass on this exceptional surgery because it takes alot of time and practice to master. Plus pumping out 8 bands or 4 RNY's make alot more money than 2 DS's.

[serenity 1]

I am awaiting approval and have been on this site continuously looking for the good and bad. This particular thread caught my eye as most of you do not appear thrilled with the band. I myself am quite afraid of any WLS, but I am also afraid of the complications that may occur with my health if I don't do something. But am I trading one unhealthy lifestyle( obesity) for another unhealthy lifestyle (PBing, slimming, reflux, etc...) Gosh, this is so depressing, I know, seek the advice of the medical profession, but often it will be you guys that will tell the truth about living it and that is equally important. I don't even know if this warrants a response, just posting my thoughts....

[cinward2001 0]

I am awaiting approval and have been on this site continuously looking for the good and bad. This particular thread caught my eye as most of you do not appear thrilled with the band. I myself am quite afraid of any WLS, but I am also afraid of the complications that may occur with my health if I don't do something. But am I trading one unhealthy lifestyle( obesity) for another unhealthy lifestyle (PBing, slimming, reflux, etc...) ....

Serenity, I don't agree at all. I AM thrilled with my band. I have no reflux or sliming and only occasionally PB. When I do PB, it's entirely my own fault...sort of like eating too much at Thanksgiving and then suffering the consequences. But I'm healthier now than I've ever been.

It's possible, sometimes, to find a site that seems to be mostly people who have problems. I'm not saying LapBandTalk is that way...I honestly haven't been keeping up with posts lately. But if the majority of people here seem unhappy with their band, then I think it's the people and not the band. There are other sites in cyberspace where almost everyone is very happy with the band.

Cindy

[GeezerSue 7]

Serenity, I don't agree at all. I AM thrilled with my band. I have no reflux or sliming and only occasionally PB. When I do PB, it's entirely my own fault...sort of like eating too much at Thanksgiving and then suffering the consequences. But I'm healthier now than I've ever been.

It's possible, sometimes, to find a site that seems to be mostly people who have problems. I'm not saying LapBandTalk is that way...I honestly haven't been keeping up with posts lately. But if the majority of people here seem unhappy with their band, then I think it's the people and not the band. There are other sites in cyberspace where almost everyone is very happy with the band.

Cindy

Most banded people--according to the data submitted to the FDA by the band's manufacturer--DO have sliming and barfing issues.

The sites in cyberspace where everyone is happy with the band are the sites where those who are NOT happy with the band are "swarmed on" by well-meaning banded people who tell them they just have to give it one more try. The well-minded people don't know enough to understand that the band CAN cause physical problems and some of the people who are posting about them can keep trying only at risk to their health.

[louise162 0]

To be honest I think it comes down to making comparisions. The lap band is healthier than being morbidly obese and healthier in the long run than a gastric bypass. It was a no brainer for me when making the decision to have the surgery.

[lljpaisley 0]

I am very happy with my band. I PB less than once a month, I do slime a bit more. The key is knowing what you can and can't eat. My band is tight and so i am limited in what i can eat but i chose that over loosening it a bit. Yes, I drive past McDonalds, I see commercials on Tv for food, I hear people talking about something i used to love and say "what i woudln't give for a ..." But that is as far as it goes. Oh i would love a bite of nice juicy steak but i love my new body even more.

The key is knowing what you can and can't eat, know your body's warning signs that something isn't going down easily and you should have very few problems. By the way, June will make two years since I've been banded. Good luck in making your decision.

[cinward2001 0]

Most banded people--according to the data submitted to the FDA by the band's manufacturer--DO have sliming and barfing issues.

The sites in cyberspace where everyone is happy with the band are the sites where those who are NOT happy with the band are "swarmed on" by well-meaning banded people who tell them they just have to give it one more try. The well-minded people don't know enough to understand that the band CAN cause physical problems and some of the people who are posting about them can keep trying only at risk to their health.

GeezerSue, I would have known this was your reply just because of the negativity of it. First of all, what is considered a sliming or barfing "issue?'' Have I ever pb'd? Sure. Is it an "issue?" No. Do most people who PB do it because they're eating too fast, too large of a bite, trying to eat the wrong thing, or not paying attention? Yes.

One of the sites I had in mind where most everyone is happy with the band has NEVER, in my entire membership time (almost 2 years) "swarmed on" anyone who wasn't happy with the band. We listen, we try to offer advice, but we don't criticize if someone is unhappy with it.

Your comment about "well-minded" people is just flat out condescending. Because YOU had problems with YOUR band, you choose to think that the band is a risk for everyone, and for someone who isn't having problems...well, we're just not "well-minded" enough to know better. LOL

But, yes, if someone is truly have PHYSICAL problems with their band (vs. the emotional and psychological problems of having to make eating and attitude changes), then they should have their band removed. Unfortunately, if you're having physical problems with either RNY or DS, then you're stuck with it.

Cindy

[S@ssen@ch 745]

Healthy to me is not having to worry about malabsorption for the rest of my life. Healthy to me is having the ability to make choices about what I eat and lose weight in a slow, steady manner. Healthy to me is to be free of joint pain, sleep apnea. Healthy to me is to be able to walk without being winded. Have sex with my husband comfortably. The list could go on.

Have I slimed, yes. After 2 years I have NOT PB'd. AND, I don't necessarily consider PBing an unhealthy thing. I would consider it a reminder that I've either eaten too fast, too much or a food item that did not agree with my band or fill level. I consider BARFING or VOMITING unhealthy and therefore allowing gastric juices to enter my esophagus. Lap Banded patients are at risk for reflux which also does this, but hopefully with proper after care and behavioral changes reflux can be avoided.

Those of us "well-minded" and well-informed individuals have researched and become knowledgeable about the band, it's lifestyle changes and the expectations that we should have and that we should make of ourselves.

Other than out and out unhealthy states such as illness and injury, Health and unhealth can be subjective.