Governor Perry-What a liar

[bitteroldhag 0]

Jodie, you have a right to your opinion.

Some politicians require that voters have a lack of compassion for the poor and they circulate Republican lines about how wonderful it is to be poor. One of our vice presidents told us that the homeless like it that way. Many politicians suggest that the poor have it all. Or at least get it all.

Maybe the reason that Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are giving all their money away is so that they can qualify for all the goodies that the poor get from the government. :faint:

In case you don't know it, Social Security does more than protect people from being broke when they retire. If a man is killed, his family is entitled to Survivor Benefits until the children are 18.

Anyone who thinks that is not important should try walking in the moccasins of a young window who has to raise three children after her husband ties of a freak accident or a unexpected illness.

My friend with 3 children died at 21 of a heart attack. He didn't have life insurance because, "who needs insurance at 21?"

My father died on the day after I was born in 1945. Social Security was the difference between starving and surviving for my mother and me.

And then there is disability insurance.

Yes, as a savings plan, SS is not the best, but when you add up the Medical plan for the aged (Medicare) and the other benefits I mentioned, it is a bargain.

The only reason that SS is having a problem now is that Ronald Reagan began combining the SS money with the General tax revenue in the early 1980's. Combining might be called stealing if I was less polite. The USA owes Social Security about 2 trillion dollars. Of course the 11 commandment is "Thou Shalt NOT RAISE TAXES", so the Republicans do not want to repay the money and come up with all kinds of schemes spread all kinds of lies to get out of paying back the money they used to lower taxes. Oh, I forgot, they really didn't lower your taxes that much, but Bill Gates' and Warren Buffet's taxes were cut by billions during BuSh's 6 years.

And as far as state taxes are concerned. Find a chart that lists the state tax rates. Then find another chart that ranks income per capita. Then find one that ranks educational levels. Then find one that ranks rate of divorce. Then find one that ranks rate of marriage.

You will find that the states with the highest tax rates have the highest marriage rates, the best educated children, the best educated adults, the best medical care, the highest standard of living and the lowest divorce rates.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Lord, I love your thinking. You are 100% right and you have the info to prove it. I really hope the Democrats win in 2006. If nothing else, maybe we won't have so many stupid laws passed. I always think it's a good thing to have Congress be split. I personally think it was stupid to impeach Bill Clinton, even if he was a slimeball. But to not impeach Bush is flatly unamerican. I really wish my fire would go out so I can go to bed.

[yodlrscowgrl 0]

That's not all, Poodles. Rick Perry is the reason thousands of poor children no longer have health care. He is the reason state parks are being closed for lack of maintenance funding, even though the money is there, in the form of special fees dedicated to parks and wildlife.

I wouldn't vote for Rick Perry if he ran for dog catcher.

This is a lie....Rick Perry never took away the chips program for children. I know so because my grandchildren are on it.

Also it has been proven that Carole Keeton Strayhorn and Chris Bell have been lying in their commercials. This was reported on Channel 8 WFAA.

No one is perfect but I would rather have Rick Perry in office instead of some liar....

[j_war06 0]

I study too and my class is studying Machiavelli at the moment. We do the section on "The Morals of the Prince." There are two assumptions in that section: 1) the prince wants to stay in power 2) people are generally bad. I find that students who agree with the latter, tend to believe Machiavelli is right while those who disagree, don't think Machiavelli is right. So it comes down to the assumptions which you should know about if you study a lot. We should always look for the basic assumptions in any writing because if the assumptions are wrong, the whole argument is wrong. My students this semester tended to think that people are generally good though in past semesters the vote has been about 50/50. However, Machiavelli clearly promotes political expediency over morality. If one accepts both assumptions that Machiavelli makes, then he's right. If one doesn't accept both assumptions, then he's wrong at least with regard to one or more assumptions. As an English professor, I try to teach my students to always figure out what the assumptions are in an argument, and then decide if they agree with the assumptions or not. Unwitting agreement or disagreement shows poor critical thinking. Not that I'm accusing you of that, but I think you should consider these assumptions which Machiavellil makes perfectly clear in the "Morals of the Prince" section and then see if you agree with him. If you do, I assume you think that people are generally bad and that can certainly color your interpretation of Machiavelli. I tend to think people are generally good so I'm critical of him, but if people really are generally bad, then his ideas are perfectly good.

In addition, I teach my students to look for fallacies. Fallacies are basically illogical conclusions which we tend to jump to for lack of thought. Frankly, I haven't found many fallacies in Machiavelli's "Morals of the Prince," which indicates that his thought is logical. That is why we must look for the assumptions that underlie his thought.

I skipped school today so you got my lecture instead of my students. Poor you.

Actually, I want to thank you for using actually in depth thought, I dont care whether someone agrees with me or not, I just wanted someone to ANALYZE it, and know what is being within the text. I appreciate this tons. Actually, I do believe that people, by nature, are bad. Hear me out on this, all people have mischevious thoughts, whether they are minor or major all people try to do something that they shouldnt. It is a thrill and adrenaline rush, that is not to say all people want to murder, or rape or whatever. I do mean that everyone has their sins. They have probably cheated on something in school, they have sped in their cars. That doesnt make them a bad person, but they have broken the law which we associate with being bad. This is really hard to explain. Philosophy is so deep when one actually thinks about the subjects that are presents within the text of a work.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I am always amazed that people can always be fooled by an argument which might sound logical, but is inherently evil.

When I went to college, my Economics 101 professor required two text books. One was written by a typical Keynesian economist (the prevailing theory of economics at that time) and one by Milton Freeman (who later shaped much of Ronald Reagan's economic strategy).

One of the more vivid examples of Mr. Freeman's the smaller the government the better attitude, was that regulation the fire-proofing and fire retardation of infant's pajama were not the function of government, but of the market place.

He basically said people should not have to be forced to buy fire proof or fire retardant pajamas for their infants, that if people wanted fire proof or fire retardant pajamas, then they should make the decision themselves. If people do not want fire proof or fire retardant pajamas for their infants they should be allowed to buy pajamas that catch fire easily. It is a market choice.

Of course, then only the poor will have to make that choice.

They had the same battle here in Florida before Hurricane Andrew hit. The elected officials on one side of the aisle wanted higher hurricane protection standards and the elected officials of the other party claimed that it would cause the prices of homes to go so high that no one could afford to live in Florida.

As soon as Hurricane Andrew devastated Florida, enough of the officials dropped their concern for Florida's growth and passed tougher housing codes, and even stiffer codes have been passed at least 3 or 4 more times since then, as Florida's population has been one of the fastest growing of all the states in the USA.

Yes, it is a logical argument to let the people have the freedom of choice to decide on pajamas for their infants which will either protect the child from burning to death or allow the child to be burned and to have the freedom of choice to decide to live in houses that will either collapse or withstand hurricane's winds.

But is it a humane argument?

Are we not leaving something out of the debate?

Think about the unsaid premise that is being left out.

If you are a Democrat (or Liberal) you may have an easy time seeing it.

If you are a Christian, you should have an easier time seeing it.

Many Republicans will miss it.

How can that be?

[Carlene 12]

This is a lie....Rick Perry never took away the chips program for children. I know so because my grandchildren are on it.

Also it has been proven that Carole Keeton Strayhorn and Chris Bell have been lying in their commercials. This was reported on Channel 8 WFAA.

No one is perfect but I would rather have Rick Perry in office instead of some liar....

In the future, please don't call me a liar. I didn't say that Rick Perry "took away" the CHPS program. But he was single-handedly responsible for making it much,much more difficult to qualify and many children who used to get glasses and dental coverage under traditional Medicaid no longer receive them.

As for campaign ads....I heard one this morning. It was Rick Perry's wife, talking about how he had "kept his promises to Texans", and how much he "cares about school children". How true is that? In some poor school districts, children have to share eyeglasses because they lost their Medicaid coverage, courtesy of Rick Perry.

[Carlene 12]

Texas---In 2003 Gov. Perry pushed through most of a 6% biennial cut in the Medicaid budget ($1.5 billion, counting in lost federal matching funds). The state has barebones eligibility coverage to begin with: Only SSI recipients, nursing home and home and community-based waiver cases under $1656 monthly, parents under 133% of the TANF level and children under 200% of poverty are covered; and only parents and children whose original incomes are too high—but not childless disabled or aged---can spend down to get Medicaid. On June 2, 2003, the legislature enacted the Governor’s budget to ---among other cuts--- eliminate CHIP coverage of prostheses, physical therapy and private duty nursing; tighten CHIP asset eligibility rules; impose $10 to $20 copays for CHIP doctor visits and prescriptions; raise CHIP enrollment premiums to prohibitive levels; count income for CHIP more strictly; impose a 90 day waiting period for newly-eligible CHIP patients; reduce Medicaid home health coverage for the aged and disabled; end the Medicaid medically needy spend down for families and children (the childless aged and disabled never could spend down in Texas); reduce the pregnant women’s Medicaid income level enough to drop 8,300 women monthly; and terminate Medicaid coverage of

eyeglasses, hearing aids, chiropractic services, podiatry and some mental health care for adults. Even though all this caused over 100,000 children to lose health coverage by January, 2004, in March the Medicaid agency proposed additional cuts, including limits of $5,000 for liquid assets and $15,000 for a car’s value (with 2nd cars worth up to about $4600 allowed) for CHIP. By March 28, 2004, premiums for over 25,000 of the remaining 325,000 CHIP patients were late and the state threatened to remove them from the rolls. In June, 2004, a federal judge permanently enjoined enforcement of the state’s so-called “personal responsibility” law that denied Medicaid to parents who abuse drugs or alcohol or whose children are truant or miss immunizations or medical or dental checkups. About the same time, news reports said that Texas CHIP had, in the first quarter, already consumed two-thirds of its annual drug budget, even with the cutbacks, and the Health and Human Services Commissioner conceded that Medicaid and CHP still faced a $575 million annual shortfall. At the same time the state health department proposed raising the pregnant women’s Medicaid level back up to 185% from 158%, which would cover at least 8,000 more women monthly. In August, 2004, Governor Perry said he’d consider a delay in dropping children whose parents have become delinquent in paying newly-imposed or -raised premiums from S-CHIP.

Source: State Medicaid Eligibility Cutbacks & Exclusions-Proposed & Recently-Enacted, 2001-04*

By Thomas P. McCormack [draft # 19 August 13, 2004; please discard any earlier version]

* State eligibility policy decisions listed are for Medicaid optional coverage groups or liberalized rules authorized by Sections 1902(a)(10), 1902®(2), 1905, 1931 and 1115 (including coverage expansion, HIFA and Pharmacy Plus waivers); for the State Children’s’ Health Insurance Program (CHIP) and its waivers authorized under title XXI; and for state-funds-only pharmacy, medical assistance, health and health insurance subsidy programs.

[Carlene 12]

You have to take parts and use the symbollism in his words and the wisdom that he shares since he is a philosopher, and therefore is higher ranked than any one other than other philosophers, therefore you must respect his thought since he can put it all together in a reasonable manner, and therefore he must have some good thoughts which one can take from his speaking. I do not mean to say anyone should be Machiavellian, but instead take from his works and learn and grow and pick out the parts that pertain to certain instances, rather than the whole thing. You have to pick apart paragraphs and decide what you want to believe in, and how to apply it to our government in today's time. My eyes are open, I know what the hell Im talking about I do this indepth study every single day, its what I do, I dont work, I study...

What do you think, guys? Was George Orwell a philosopher?

Throughout recorded time ... there have been three kinds of people in the world, the High, the Middle, and the Low.

They have been subdivided in many ways, they have borne countless different names,

and their relative numbers, as well as their attitude towards one another, have varied from age to age:

but the essential structure of society has never altered.

Even after enormous upheavals and seemingly irrevocable changes, the same pattern has always reasserted itself,

just as a gyroscope will always return to equilibrium, however far it is pushed one way or the other.

The aims of these three groups are entirely irreconcilable.

- George Orwell

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

The only thing that has changed is that technology has made it easier for the few to fool the many into thinking that their goals are shared.

[Carlene 12]

The only thing that has changed is that technology has made it easier for the few to fool the many into thinking that their goals are shared.

You got that right!

[mousecrazy 2]

Who is Thomas P. McCormack, the author of the documentation submitted in defense of your opinion about CHIP?

I ask because some of the language in the excerpt you have included is emotionally loaded; for example, "The state has barebones eligibility coverage to begin with".

Another example of loaded or emotionally charged language is found here: "raise CHIP enrollment premiums to prohibitive levels"

There are other examples, and they all lead me to the conclusion that the documentation you have provided here is biased toward your viewpoint.

Here are a few facts about the CHIP program. I feel that the changes are positive and in line with fiduciary responsibility most of us would like to see in our government:

In 2003, the Texas State Legislature imposed new eligibility requirements for those seeking CHIP enrollment. CHIP is offered to those families who are up to 200% of the federal poverty line. Families who are enrolled on CHIP are subject to income/asset verification every six months. Those enrolled are also required to pay a $50 enrollment fee for every six month period. Recipients are also required to pay a co-payment of $3-10. These requirements are designed to provide increased accountability and ease of application.

A new private sector vendor began processing CHIP applications on Nov. 28, 2005. Enrollment has declined 22,213 since that time. Why?

• As the Texas economy improves, fewer Texans need assistance
  
• In October, the leading reasons for CHIP disenrollment (based on actual experience) were:
  -- 45 percent didn't return renewal packet
  -- 19 percent exceeded CHIP income limits
  -- 17 percent were Medicaid eligible
  -- 11 percent didn't pay the renewal fee
  -- 5 percent aged out of the program
  -- 3 percent did not renew for various reasons

I do hope that there is not any emotionally charged or biased language included in this documentation, and perhaps it may even clear up some misconceptions currently being held by some Texans.

It would indeed be a shame to cast your vote based on incomplete information.

[Carlene 12]

Here are a few facts about the CHIP program. I feel that the changes are positive and in line with fiduciary responsibility most of us would like to see in our government:

In 2003, the Texas State Legislature imposed new eligibility requirements for those seeking CHIP enrollment. CHIP is offered to those families who are up to 200% of the federal poverty line. Families who are enrolled on CHIP are subject to income/asset verification every six months. Those enrolled are also required to pay a $50 enrollment fee for every six month period. Recipients are also required to pay a co-payment of $3-10. These requirements are designed to provide increased accountability and ease of application.

A new private sector vendor began processing CHIP applications on Nov. 28, 2005. Enrollment has declined 22,213 since that time. Why?

• As the Texas economy improves, fewer Texans need assistance
  
• In October, the leading reasons for CHIP disenrollment (based on actual experience) were:
  -- 45 percent didn't return renewal packet
  -- 19 percent exceeded CHIP income limits
  -- 17 percent were Medicaid eligible
  -- 11 percent didn't pay the renewal fee
  -- 5 percent aged out of the program
  -- 3 percent did not renew for various reasons

I do hope that there is not any emotionally charged or biased language included in this documentation, and perhaps it may even clear up some misconceptions currently being held by some Texans.

It would indeed be a shame to cast your vote based on incomplete information.

In 2003, the Texas Legislature passed and Rick Perry signed HB 2292, which made several structural changes to Children’s Health Insurance Program. The bill increased premiums, changed the income requirements for coverage, reduced the plan’s coverage period, and made several cuts to benefits that were later restored. (University Wire, Jun. 7, 2006)

CHIP enrollment then decreased by 275,000. Enrollment numbers from Jul. 2003 to Oct. 2006 dropped by 213,695, from 509,182 to 300,685. Child enrollment in Medicaid has dropped from 1,826,599 in Jul. 2003 to 1,760,000 in Mar. 2006. (University Wire, Jun. 7, 2006; San Antonio Express-News, Mar. 4, 2006; Dallas Morning News, Oct. 6, 2006; Texas Dept. of Health and Human Services, CHIP Enrollment, 2003-2006; Medicaid Enrollment, HHS, 2003-2005; Medical News, Mar. 13, 2006)

Are you saying that the families of over a quarter of a million children suddenly became so prosperous after HB 2292 was passed that they no longer needed subsidized health care?

By the way, you didn't cite the source of your stats.

[Carlene 12]

Who is Thomas P. McCormack, the author of the documentation submitted in defense of your opinion about CHIP?

Thomas P. McCormack is actually an advocate of AIDS/HIV victims. He wrote the AIDS BENEFITS HANDBOOK (Yale University Press) and handled Medicaid eligibility policy at the federal Department of Health and Human Services. He has done benefits advocacy for several AIDS and disability groups and now serves as policy consultant for the Title II Community AIDS National Network.

[mousecrazy 2]

Thank you for the information on Mr. McCormack.

Our statistics seem to correspond. I found this information about CHIP on Americans for Prosperity, I think it's .org, but it might be .com. Just so you don't have to guess, here is the mission of AFP: AFP is an organization of grassroots leaders who engage citizens in the name of limited government and free markets on the local, state and federal levels. The grassroots members of AFP advocate for public policies that champion the principles of entrepreneurship and fiscal and regulatory restraint.

It is definitely possible to look at the same exact statistics, and interpret them differently.

That is the point I am making.

From my point of view, it is reasonable to ask people to pay a $10 copay (at the most), or $100/year in 2 payments for medical insurance that the government, you and I, are providing.

Yes, I believe it is possible that 225,000 children's circumstances improved enough to drop them off of assisted insurance coverage. I also think it is possible that parents would choose to provide health insurance from another source, if they could. I do not believe that one man, Rick Perry, is responsible, because that is not possible in a representative form of government.

[j_war06 0]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU MOUSECRAZY! I know you probably do not completely agree with my views, which I will admit are somehat radical, but I do agree with what you are saying here. That quote was full and busting out of political agenda and accusations rather than facts. SO ONCE MORE< THANK YOU

[Carlene 12]

Another example of loaded or emotionally charged language is found here: "raise CHIP enrollment premiums to prohibitive levels"

There are other examples, and they all lead me to the conclusion that the documentation you have provided here is biased toward your viewpoint.

Shame on you, Mouse, for chastising ME for providing documentation that is "biased toward (my) viewpoint".

No organization is more biased than Americans for Prosperity. Here is the bio of their TX State Director, straight from their web site.

About AFP - Peggy Venable

Peggy M. Venable

State Director - AFP Texas

Peggy M. Venable is director of the Texas office of Americans for Prosperity. She has worked in public policy and in the political arena for 30 years, with more than 13 years experience in Washington, D.C., and 10 years in Texas as state director of Citizens for a Sound Economy. Peggy is well known across Texas, having been widely published in newspapers and heard regularly on talk radio across the state. She travels the state extensively, giving numerous speeches to civic, business and citizen groups.

Before returning to her native Texas more than a decade ago, Peggy served in numerous senior-level positions in the federal government, including the Department of Interior, the Interstate Commerce Commission, the Department of Education, and the Government Printing Office. She has also worked on several presidential campaigns, including those of Gerald R. Ford and Ronald Reagan. She was executive director of the 1984 Republican National Convention.

Peggy is active in numerous home state groups, having served as a board member of the Texas Center for Educational Research as well as the Austin CEO Foundation. She is on the editorial board of the Lone Star Report and is an advisor to the Texans for Texas organization. She is an immediate past president of the Texas Women's Alliance and the Southwest Texas State University Foundation. She is also a member of the Texas Education Reform Caucus. Peggy is listed in Who’s Who Among Women.

Peggy received her undergraduate degree in journalism and political science from Texas State University, and has completed some course work toward a master’s degree in international business at Baylor University. She is the mother of a 16 year-old daughter.