Revision Questions To Help Me Decide?

[meyouus 415]

Hi! I have so many thoughts and feelings I want to express or ask about, so I hope this post makes some sort of sense.

I was banded 5 years ago. I stayed with the program for about a year, maybe a year and a half, I don't remember. I had to keep going in for fills and unfills, never truly reaching restriction. I was so frustrated, I gave up and got unfilled. I recently went back to my WLS clinic for the first time to get back on track. They put me on the South Beach diet for four weeks, when I go in next to speak to my surgeon. When I was there, they said that my surgeon is having great success with the VSG and that they feel it might be the best route to go. I weigh 323, my highest being 362. My doc wants me to get down to 130-150. I have two comorbids: obstructive sleep apnea and osteoarthritis that led me to have two knee replacements this last year. I am 46, 5' 4".

I'm trying to do all the research I can to decide if the VSG is really for me. (before I speak to my surgeon) So far, so good. But, I have questions and fears.

The fact that this surgery is relatively new makes me question the surgery's future outcomes, that's not how I want to put it, but the words escape me.

Going from band to sleeve sounds, from what I've read, to be a very complicated before and after surgery process. It sounds incredibly painful and requires a great deal of down time. My husband works during the day, and probably can't take more than two days off for me. If he HAD to, he would, but his work would be pissed. I'm afraid of the pain people talk about. When I had my knees done, I was doped up pretty well and didn't feel much true pain and I was in rehab for a week right after. But you guys make it sound horrendous, well, some of you. Is it THAT aweful and painful? How long does it last?

With my new knee's, I can't have any infection in my body, or they'd have to replace the knee altogether. I mean, antibiotics are there for me, but asside from the normal chances you take with any surgery, would something like a leak cause infection?

Speaking of leaks...they scare the hell out of me. It sounds like fixing them with surgery is also a major hell to go through. I read about the stats of leakages with VSG, but it still worries me. Is it enough for you to overlook and have the revision anyway? I have to talk to my surgeon about all these things, I know, but some everyday people input really helps.

I've heard of several pre-op diets that sound aweful, are they? I can bite the bullet, I just want to know.

Post-op diets, how bad are they? Can one survive on liquids alone for so long??? Btw, I'm not a diet cheater.

Do you like your revision, or the experience of one?

Like I said, I have many questions and feelings. If you could help me to better inform myself it would help SO helpful. I'm still doing research anyway, if I could find actual stats and info on the net. But you all are more experienced, obviously, than me and I'd love to hear what you have to say, good or bad. Thank you so much for reading my novel!

[PEvette 297]

You wrote alot on your post....alot of the questions you have can be answered here on the site if you read the other discussion postings....

I'm 3 weeks post-op revision, and yes there is a higher complication rate, yes the pain can be intense, but that can go for all surgerys, pain is a tolerance thing....I had my band 7 years, it was good the first year, and eventually I was unable to lose, I just stayed at 315....it was a friend who suggested to me to look into VSG, also my ob/gyn...I feel blessed that Ive had it done....

[lml32937 65]

No leaks, No regrets only that I didnt do it sooner and i'm sure 99.9 % of the people registered on this site would agree..

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

I think you have a basic misconception about the complexity of the surgery and the pain. Yes, it is a major surgery since they remove a goodly portion of an important organ, but it is NOT that complex compared to many surgeries. Yes, you want a specialist but this is not a highly "technical" procedure.

Yes, you will have discomfort, but there are plenty of people that go home same day or stay just one night! I am not trying to poo-poo your concerns, just put it in perspective. I didn't have much pain, but my abs were very sore. I slept in a recliner because getting in and out of bed was hard for me the first several days... if i had something to grab to pull me up, I could have probably coped with bed.

I have not had knee replacement, but in terms of how long you are "disabled" and need help, no comparison. I was up and walking around within hours of my surgery. I stayed one night, and was home the next morning. They asked that we have someone with us that first day home (mostly sleep apnea post surgery risk due to anesthesia) but I could get up and get my own drinks etc. In fact, they WANT you to walk. If hubby can talk 2 days off, I am thinking that is plenty.

My opinion is that people worry way too much about the surgery and immediate post op, when the larger concern is really the long term lifestyle change.

I am totally rocking my sleeve and loving it. I have several posts that detail out my story - I was a band to sleeve revision as well. I had the crapband for 10 years, but only had fill in it the first 2-3 of those years and it was always a nightmare. Sleeve is so much better.

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

Oh, and leaks can indeed cause an infection. I do think the risks around leaks are something to seriously discuss with your surgeon. Scared the crud out of me, almost enought to make me not proceed. Then I asked how many of my surgeon's revision patients had leaks. At the time, NONE. Well, there are stats, and it is important to know them. It is also good to have a real heart to heart with your specific surgeon over it and what it means to your health and how treatment for it works.

Then, once you decide, my advice is to turn that responsibility over to the surgeon and you focus on YOUR part of this whole journey - which is lifestyle changes, food choices, activity levels, changing relationship with food etc.

[meyouus 415]

CowgirlJane,

THANK YOU.

You helped put things into perspective for me. I really, really needed that! I will be discussing this whole thing in detail with my surgeon, especially my concerns with my knees and infection. He's a really cool, experienced surgeon,,,I trust him as much as one can trust a surgeon. I'll be re-reading your post's to keep me in line.

You made me feel better, consider yourself appreciated!

[LT1002 138]

I got my band in 2010. Never had the proper restriction - I'd either throw up or be able to eat a side of beef. I gave up going for fills and just left it as is. Eventually, the area around my port got infected and I needed to get the band out. My doctor said that he'd been doing a lot of revisions because the bands just don't do well with some people.

I'm now 4 days post-op. the diet is not dissimilar from the band diet in the first few weeks. The pain is a bit more intense, but not unbearable. It's scary because it's non reversible, but so is death - I was afraid if I kept gaining weight, that's where I was headed. The risks are so slight (under 1%), to me it was worth it.

[samomom 19]

The lapband is a piece of crap! I wish I would have known more about the sleeve and had that done two years ago and never introduced that evil thing to my body.I just had the revision done July 9th, just over two weeks ago. The pain was far less that with the band, I have lost 14 pounds in two weeks, I don't slime, throw up, have heartburn (because my surgeon created a flap to prevent it), no pain, nothing. I didn't even feel the need to stay at the surgery center overnight, but it was manditory. I only took my liquid Lortab(Vicodin) three times, and that was just to sleep. I have had 4 knee surgeries over the past twenty years, two kids, one with a failed epidural, and by far this sleeve was the easiest to deal with.

I feel that the mental stress is far less than with the band. For some reason I was a wreck after the band for weeks and weeks. I'm totally fine now. I'm so thrilled that when I do get hungry I can eat whatever soft Proteins I want in small amounts and I am full physically and my body is satisfied. I don't have the carb craving whatsoever. That didn't happen with the band. I have even stopped drinking Vitamin Water Zero. I can't stand sweet right now.

You shoudn't need anyone at home to help you. My husband picked me up early morining from the surgery center and stayed home until about lunchtime when he had to get back to work. My two kids, 9 and 12, were home, but they didn't have to do a thing for me. I was just chilling on the couch on the laptop or sleeping.

One suggestion I have is to ask your surgeon to use power assisted titanium staples and over stitch you to prevent leaks. My surgeon is one of the best on the West Coast, if not in the US, and he doesn't mess around with your stomach when it comes to sewing it back up.

Good luck!

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

So, I would disagree on the point of asking the surgeon to do the procedure a specific way. i personally would ask what they do and why they do it. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. I would never feel comfortable asking a surgeon to do something special for me outside of his normal protocol - i guess, I think I am not qualified. I would also hate to be "blamed" if something does go wrong.

For example, i had read about some sort of leak prevention technique which sounded good to me. I asked about it and the surgeon went through their own results and showed that they get BETTER results then reported in the article I referenced, lower complication/ leaks following their own technique. They are fairly high volume (by USA standards) and have been doing it for I think 4-5 years now, so I decided to trust them on that one. I am glad I did!

[meyouus 415]

I am having the worst time trying to decide about staying with my Band or revising to the sleeve. One day I'm on one side of the fence, another day, the other.

I mean, if I give the band, and myself another chance, maybe I can do it. I thought I was seeing my WLS Clinic last week, seems it's actually in 3 days. What a talk I will have with them!

I've been on my surgeons recomended South Beach Diet for a month now, lost 10-12 pounds with no exercise. But, I have thrown up a few times. I still eat too fast, and don't chew as much as I should. Something that seriously needs to be addressed regardless of the choice I make. I wake up and wonder if I can do it this way the rest of my life. Not the diet, the band. I'm fine being on the diet. I've read that many people on LBT have lost 100 pounds on the band, but I need to lose at least 170. Can that be done? IDK.

The sleeve sounds too good to be true, honestly. Leaks, I will discuss with my surgeon. I mean, you still have to eat slow, chew, chew, chew with the sleeve. I've heard people have been able to eat whatever with the sleeve, but my heart and veins want to be healthy as well, so I'd still follow the SoB diet the best I can. And I really don't know if I can or want to go through yet another surgery this year. I'm surgeried out. On the flipside, I just know I have to lose a great deal of weight and the sleeve seems to fill that need.

I was reading LBT a while ago, and folks were talking about the life expectancy of their band. It was only introduced at the turn of the century, so not much data to show the permanency of it. And many people have complained that their band had eroded or slipped, or whatever. But most have not. I notice that a lot of people fail with the band because they failed the band! I did. But I learned from my mistakes and am now doing quite well. But again, the massive weight loss...

Oh, I don't know. I'm so on and off the fence. Banders and Sleevers both claim they have the best. What is best for me, I don't know.

[KS Fort Worth 86]

My experience certainly does not parallel yours, but the main deciding factor for me in choosing sleeve over band was the virtual elimination of grehlin. Just my opinion, but I think that's why the band fails so many people, because it does nothing to eliminate physical hunger. (HEAD hunger is another matter altogether, and we ALL have to beat that!) If you do decide to go with a sleeve, PLEASE don't be disappointed if your surgeon wants a 'resting' period between band removal and sleeve surgery. He would only suggest that if he was sure it was in your best interest. Good luck on your journey, and I hope you make the healthiest decision for you.

[samomom 19]

Obviously the band isn't the miracle you hoped for just like so many of us. If it isn't working, get rid of it. It is not the answer to and for every weight problem. I think it sucks! I tried to love it for nearly two years. I pretended that it was going to to be this miracle. I played the game. I ate what I was supposed to, didn't eat what I wasn't supposed to, I exercised more, I tried to ignore the hunger and I suffered through the f'ing horrible sliming and thowing up. I filled, unfilled, forced my doctor to show up at his office to unfill on a Saturday morning, went to the ER dehydrated because I couldn't swallow my own saliva(yeah, try that one. It sucked). Then I finally decided about 6 months ago that something had to change.

I had lost 32 pounds in 5 months. That isn't exactly a stellar feat, but I took what I could. After the first 5, nothing happened. I couldn't lose a pound. I skied all winter trying to burn calories. Nothing. Then I gained two pounds. Then 4. Then before I knew it I was up 20! I gave up. I knew it wasn't my lack of effort, but the lack of the success of the band helping me. It was creating more issues that it was helping. The band had to go. I just needed to decide when. I had the rest of the ski season, a trip to Europe and two kids to deal with. Then my sister told me she was having the sleeve done in March. Since I was kind of the guinea pig for the band, she could be for the sleeve.

My sister is a nurse. A good nurse and a smart one. She researched the procedure and doctors like you wouldn't believe. She had access to info that many don't. If she had setteled on the sleeve, I was pretty damn sure I would follow suit. She had her sleeve done March 2nd of this year. It's been 4 1/2 months and she is down 64 pounds. She looks hot! No issues other than the first few weeks of fatigue and a bit of dehydration.

I talked to my surgeon in April. We talked about getting rid of the evil inside me. I said sleeve. He said go for it. He admitted that the band doesn't work for everyone. I had to wait a few months to actually have the surgery because my husband travels worldwide for work and we were heading to Europe for two weeks as soon as school got out. I didn't want to be a few weeks post-op in Europe just in case and let's face it, I was eating good food on vacation! I made him totally unfill the crapband before I left. I still slimed and threw up with no saline in it!!! Evil piece of crap.

So fast forward to Monday, July 9th. I cruised on into the Beverly Hills Sunset Surgery Center(yeah, I do it Hollywood style! I live in West L.A) that afternoon. I even showed up late! Traffic. I had surgery later in the afternoon and remember coming to about 5 pm. I had a little pain, but since I have a delayed reaction to Versed, it takes me forever to really wake up from surgery. I was drinking Water and Vitamin Water within an hour or so. No problems. I had to stay overnight which I really could have skipped on. I didn't need that much in the way of pain meds. Went home about 8 the next morning and slept a lot the next few days. I only took liquid Lortab(Vicodin) twice. I really wasn't in pain.

I drank Protein shakes and Vitamin Water for the first two weeks. I went to my 2 week check up and I had already lost 14 pounds. Today I think its more like 17. My underwear are sliding off my hips. I had to toss a bunch of shirts. I'm going to Macy's to shop for new clothes already as soon as everyone gets dressed and out the door.

For the next three weeks I'm on soft foods. I have been eating stir fried chicken breast, pork ribs(minus any fat), avocados, sliced turkey breast, eggs, cheese, yogurts, etc. I don't have to chew like mad and eat slow or any different than before. I don't get heartburn or upset stomach. This has been the easiest thing ever!

I don't fear having any leaking issues because my surgeon staples and oversews to prevent that. He also created a flap to prevent any acid reflux.There is no issue of malabsorption because you aren't bypassing anything. I seriously feel like nothing has even been done. It takes some trial and error to figure out what full looks like in a bowl before I eat, but other that that it's been all good.

As for being able to eat whatever you want as you mentioned- Choosing to eat something and being able to eat whatever you want are two different things. Right now and for the forseeable future, I am choosing not to eat carbs. They aren't off any list, but they don't do any good for weight loss and because my stomach is smaller, why fill it with empty starchy calories when I can eat muscle preserving Protein? If you are worried about not being able to eat something, then you need to evaluate your relationship with food. Don't take that the wrong way either. I'm just saying that if you have issues with food that bother you a lot, you should tackle those issues before proceding with any type of diet of surgery. For me, its all about carbs. Because I know they mess me up, I will not eat them. My underwear falling off my butt feels a lot better than a spoonful of rice in my mouth.

There is this entire board of people who have had revision surgery for a reason. We aren't failures. We chose to have this done because the LapBand didn't work for us. People who swear by the band are lucky. Good for them. I wish I would have done my research the first time around and gone straight for the sleeve. Do your research about the longevity of the Lapband. It's not been around long enough to determine it's true sucess rate. People who claim that it's is meant to be left in for life- please......

no supporting research for that either. Go to the NIH.org site and see what they have to say.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[meyouus 415]

My experience certainly does not parallel yours, but the main deciding factor for me in choosing sleeve over band was the virtual elimination of grehlin. Just my opinion, but I think that's why the band fails so many people, because it does nothing to eliminate physical hunger. (HEAD hunger is another matter altogether, and we ALL have to beat that!) If you do decide to go with a sleeve, PLEASE don't be disappointed if your surgeon wants a 'resting' period between band removal and sleeve surgery. He would only suggest that if he was sure it was in your best interest. Good luck on your journey, and I hope you make the healthiest decision for you.

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by the virtual elimination of grehlin. What is grehlin?

[meyouus 415]

Obviously the band isn't the miracle you hoped for just like so many of us. If it isn't working, get rid of it. It is not the answer to and for every weight problem. I think it sucks! I tried to love it for nearly two years. I pretended that it was going to to be this miracle. I played the game. I ate what I was supposed to, didn't eat what I wasn't supposed to, I exercised more, I tried to ignore the hunger and I suffered through the f'ing horrible sliming and thowing up. I filled, unfilled, forced my doctor to show up at his office to unfill on a Saturday morning, went to the ER dehydrated because I couldn't swallow my own saliva(yeah, try that one. It sucked). Then I finally decided about 6 months ago that something had to change. That sounds awful, I'm sorry you had to go through that! I wasn't looking for a miracle, I just found out the hard way that the prescribed diet was too hard for my food addicted soul to follow. After failing my diet and not getting good restriction, I was unfilled and gave up, 5 years ago. Since I've been back to see the Clinic, I've a completely new relationship with food, but there's always room for improvement.

I had lost 32 pounds in 5 months. That isn't exactly a stellar feat, but I took what I could. After the first 5, nothing happened. I couldn't lose a pound. I skied all winter trying to burn calories. Nothing. Then I gained two pounds. Then 4. Then before I knew it I was up 20! I gave up. I know what you mean. I knew it wasn't my lack of effort, but the lack of the success of the band helping me. It was creating more issues that it was helping. The band had to go. I just needed to decide when. I had the rest of the ski season, a trip to Europe and two kids to deal with. Then my sister told me she was having the sleeve done in March. Since I was kind of the guinea pig for the band, she could be for the sleeve. Doesn't being a "virgin" Sleever give you more of or quicker of a weight loss than a Revisioner?

My sister is a nurse. A good nurse and a smart one. She researched the procedure and doctors like you wouldn't believe. She had access to info that many don't. If she had setteled on the sleeve, I was pretty damn sure I would follow suit. She had her sleeve done March 2nd of this year. It's been 4 1/2 months and she is down 64 pounds. She looks hot! No issues other than the first few weeks of fatigue and a bit of dehydration. Like you say the successful Banders are lucky, so is your sister. So are many Sleevers. I am concerned whether I'll be so lucky. Honestly, the whole process before, during and after the surgery sounds like a royal pain in the ass. I'm coming off of a year off of work, hubby having 2 jobs and not making ends meet. I can't afford fatigue. How am I going to still work?

I talked to my surgeon in April. We talked about getting rid of the evil inside me. I said sleeve. He said go for it. He admitted that the band doesn't work for everyone. I had to wait a few months to actually have the surgery because my husband travels worldwide for work and we were heading to Europe for two weeks as soon as school got out. I didn't want to be a few weeks post-op in Europe just in case and let's face it, I was eating good food on vacation! I made him totally unfill the crapband before I left. I still slimed and threw up with no saline in it!!! I haven't had saline in four years and I still slime, throw up, PB. But isn't that just because I ate too fast or didn't chew enough? I hate to blame a tool that is already inside of me, minding it's own business, when it could be my fault it's not working. I'm not perfect, and neither is any WLS. Evil piece of crap.

So fast forward to Monday, July 9th. I cruised on into the Beverly Hills Sunset Surgery Center(yeah, I do it Hollywood style! I live in West L.A) that afternoon. I even showed up late! Traffic. I had surgery later in the afternoon and remember coming to about 5 pm. I had a little pain, but since I have a delayed reaction to Versed, it takes me forever to really wake up from surgery. I was drinking Water and Vitamin Water within an hour or so. No problems. There wasn't any feeling of fullness, like right after a fill? (another plus for the Sleeve, no more annoying fills and unfills. And it adds up) I had to stay overnight which I really could have skipped on. I didn't need that much in the way of pain meds. Went home about 8 the next morning and slept a lot the next few days. I only took liquid Lortab(Vicodin) twice. I really wasn't in pain. I'm really glad it went so smoothly for you!

I drank Protein shakes and Vitamin Water for the first two weeks. I went to my 2 week check up and I had already lost 14 pounds. Wasn't that because you were just on a diet of water and shakes? I can't imagine how you keep your strength up living on only that. Today I think its more like 17. My underwear are sliding off my hips. I had to toss a bunch of shirts. I'm going to Macy's to shop for new clothes already as soon as everyone gets dressed and out the door.

For the next three weeks I'm on soft foods. (I must not understand what soft foods are if you can eat ribs and chicken, etc.)I have been eating stir fried chicken breast, pork ribs(minus any fat), avocados, sliced turkey breast, eggs, cheese, yogurts, etc. I don't have to chew like mad and eat slow or any different than before. I don't get heartburn or upset stomach.That would be nice, as I used to have GERD years ago. And I hear a lot of Banders have problems with acid reflux. This has been the easiest thing ever!

I don't fear having any leaking issues because my surgeon staples and oversews to prevent that. He also created a flap to prevent any acid reflux.There is no issue of malabsorption because you aren't bypassing anything. I seriously feel like nothing has even been done. It takes some trial and error to figure out what full looks like in a bowl before I eat, but other that that it's been all good.

As for being able to eat whatever you want as you mentioned- Choosing to eat something and being able to eat whatever you want are two different things. Right now and for the forseeable future, I am choosing not to eat carbs. They aren't off any list, but they don't do any good for weight loss and because my stomach is smaller, why fill it with empty starchy calories when I can eat muscle preserving Protein? I completely agree. If you are worried about not being able to eat something, then you need to evaluate your relationship with food. Don't take that the wrong way either. I'm just saying that if you have issues with food that bother you a lot, you should tackle those issues before proceding with any type of diet of surgery. For me, its all about carbs. Because I know they mess me up, I will not eat them. My underwear falling off my butt feels a lot better than a spoonful of rice in my mouth.

There is this entire board of people who have had revision surgery for a reason. We aren't failures. We chose to have this done because the LapBand didn't work for us. People who swear by the band are lucky. Good for them. I wish I would have done my research the first time around and gone straight for the sleeve. Do your research about the longevity of the Lapband. It's not been around long enough to determine it's true sucess rate. People who claim that it's is meant to be left in for life- please...... There is less data on the successful longevity of the Sleeve, and that is a big concern of mine. no supporting research for that either. Go to the NIH.org site and see what they have to say. I'll have to check that out, thanks!

Thanks for telling me your story, I'll keep it in mind as I ponder this whole mess.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Thank you, and I wish you the best of luck with your new journey!

[KS Fort Worth 86]

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by the virtual elimination of grehlin. What is grehlin?

I misspelled it, but ghrelin is a hormone that your stomach produces that triggers hunger. It is mostly produced by the greater curvature of the stomach, which is excised as a part of the sleeve operation.