SOTC thread...Why NOT to post when your angry

[momsue 0]

I don't think we're in Kansas anymore .:clap2:

["Just" Paul 1]

I guess what I object to is using one's particular religion to force decisions onto others.

Take stem cell research... I do understand that many faiths believe that life begins at conceptions... even if it happens in a petri dish. They are absolutely and wholeheartedly entitled to their opinion and belief on this, and I respect that wholeheartedly.

However, I don't believe that, and to see the research limited due to someone else's beliefs, well I object to that. If you believe that, then do not partake of any benefits garnered from that research, but I don't think you should have the right to restrict me. You believe that, I don't, and for you to change laws based on your religion isn't fair to me. Should everyone in the US stop eating beef because Hindu's believe the cow is sacred? You'd say that is ridiculous, but it isn't to them.

You see, ethical choices are controversial, and based frequently on religions and religious practices. No one religion has the right to force beliefs on others, Many disagree with this because this country was founded, generally by judeau-christians, and therefore they should rule above others.

Let me elaborate further by going outside religion for a moment.. take PETA for example... they are against testing of animals AT ALL for any medical purposes... no matter what. Yet, the prosident of PETA is a diabetic, and takes artificial insulin... developed through animal testing, and is produced using animal products (in particular... horses). Isn't this contradictory? Religious beliefs in this manner do the same thing.

I am NOT downplaying faith and religion... they are vital parts of many people's lives, but I have trouble when YOUR religion affects MY life. If you are against abortion... don't get one... if you are against stem cell research... don't partake of it's potential benefits (when and if they ever come)... Understand that the phrase "UNDER GOD" was NOT originally part of the pledge of allegience, but was added in the fifties in response to the cold war, and it is not a big deal to RETURN it to what was the original pledge...but on the other side of the coin, remember who founded this country, and don't have a hissy fit that "IN GOD WE TRUST" is on the money. Big deal, it is there because it has pretty much always been there, and displaying the 10 commandments at a courthouse... so what? It is an example of historic laws being handed down (probably the most well known declaration of law ever), not a declaration of religion's intrusion.

Have your faith. Embrace it, make it part of your life, it is what defines part of you and that is an amazing thing... but remember, it may not be mine, so don't force it on me, I may believe differently, and that is what makes the US a great country, that we are all allowed this freedom. Let's not take that away by making one faith dictate things for the others.

Just my 2 cents, please don't flame me over this.

P

[foodstampchamp 3]

well said Paul. :clap2:

[GeezerSue 7]

Paul...we finally agree...on a NUMBER of things.

One little correction or addition...I was in Catholic elementary school in the 1950's. The "under God" thing was the result of a campaign sprearheaded by the Catholic men's organization the "Knights of Columbus." The nuns paraded us all out to say the "new improved" pledge together and to thank the KoC for their hard work.

Not that we didn't play "Commies and Good Guys" in addition to "Cowboys and Indians"...the Cold War was a big deal, too.

["Just" Paul 1]

GeezerSue... I read about that. My understanding was that their basis for adding it was to show how we were better than the "God-less" commies out there in the Soviet block.

[paula 4]

The "under God" thing was the result of a campaign sprearheaded by the Catholic men's organization the "Knights of Columbus."

..as always, Sue is right!

[nursekathy2u 0]

I once had a Sunday School teacher who said that if a woman is in an abusive relationship she should not leave her husband because God hates divorce. He said you should stay in the relationship and go thru the legal system to seek help for yourself and to deal with your spouse. But above all remain married and support your husband throughout "his ordeal". This was a baptist adult education minister. He was spouting out HIS interpretation of the Bible and, I think, putting womens lives at risk if they listen to him. The scary thing is that I know many christians who worship their pastor and follow their pastors teachings instead of God's teachings. It is my belief that this is where we often screw up. When you read the Bible yourself God will show you what He wants you to know. I believe that strongly. I have read the Bible many times and had one verse mean something different to me in different situations in my life. That is one reason I have a problem with orgainized religion. I consider myself a "Christian" because I follow the teachings of God and Christ. I was raised in Church, First Lutheran, then Methodist, then Baptist. We "church shopped and religion shopped" in the never ending search for the church/religion that believed in what we were comfortable with and would cause us the least amount of change. This is my opinion anyway.. I never really asked my parents why we belonged to so many different churches while I was growing up. I found my self doing this as an adult at it disgusted me. So I quit going to church. As a christian I DO believe that being supported by a christian family is important for accountability reasons as well as support. I hope one day I will be able to return to church. I do miss the love and support of a church family.

[GeezerSue 7]

GeezerSue... I read about that. My understanding was that their basis for adding it was to show how we were better than the "God-less" commies out there in the Soviet block.

True...but we were better than ANYONE who didn't believe exactly as we were taught to believe....lol...godless Commies were just high on the list.

[Wheetsin 714]

she should not leave her husband because God hates divorce.

My mother married very young - around 18. Her first husband was a real gem. He moved her across the country, joined the military, and on the day he returned from bootcamp he used a tire Iron to beat her into a coma in their apartment complex's parking lot. He then raped her while she was unconscious. She divorced him, and was no longer allowed to participate fully in her church's activities because of it.

When she filed for divorce, he came after her with a butcher knife, and she happened to run to my father's door for help -- which is how my parents met. My parents have the most incredible relationship, but had hard times financially when they were first starting out. When they got married, it was done by a judge in his courtroom because the $100 they had between them just wasn't enough to pay for a church wedding. There are now even more things she isn't allowed to do, because "in the eyes of the church" she acted inappropriately. She would have had a church wedding, but couldn't afford their asking price.

["Just" Paul 1]

I have a friend from years back, and she met this guy she wanted to marry. He was divorced, but it would be her first marriage. She wanted a catholic church wedding, but again, he was divorced. he applied fo an annulment, and was denied... afterall, he was married for 6 years and had two kids... how can you annul that, they said.

He later donated $5000 to a papal charity fund... 2 weeks later that reconsidered his annulment and granted it. What does that make his kids? because now, in the eyes of the church, he was never married to their mother? Besides, what hipocracy!

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I guess what I object to is using one's particular religion to force decisions onto others.

Take stem cell research... I do understand that many faiths believe that life begins at conceptions... even if it happens in a petri dish. They are absolutely and wholeheartedly entitled to their opinion and belief on this, and I respect that wholeheartedly.

However, I don't believe that, and to see the research limited due to someone else's beliefs, well I object to that. If you believe that, then do not partake of any benefits garnered from that research, but I don't think you should have the right to restrict me. You believe that, I don't, and for you to change laws based on your religion isn't fair to me. Should everyone in the US stop eating beef because Hindu's believe the cow is sacred? You'd say that is ridiculous, but it isn't to them.

You see, ethical choices are controversial, and based frequently on religions and religious practices. No one religion has the right to force beliefs on others, Many disagree with this because this country was founded, generally by judeau-christians, and therefore they should rule above others.

Let me elaborate further by going outside religion for a moment.. take PETA for example... they are against testing of animals AT ALL for any medical purposes... no matter what. Yet, the prosident of PETA is a diabetic, and takes artificial insulin... developed through animal testing, and is produced using animal products (in particular... horses). Isn't this contradictory? Religious beliefs in this manner do the same thing.

I am NOT downplaying faith and religion... they are vital parts of many people's lives, but I have trouble when YOUR religion affects MY life. If you are against abortion... don't get one... if you are against stem cell research... don't partake of it's potential benefits (when and if they ever come)... Understand that the phrase "UNDER GOD" was NOT originally part of the pledge of allegience, but was added in the fifties in response to the cold war, and it is not a big deal to RETURN it to what was the original pledge...but on the other side of the coin, remember who founded this country, and don't have a hissy fit that "IN GOD WE TRUST" is on the money. Big deal, it is there because it has pretty much always been there, and displaying the 10 commandments at a courthouse... so what? It is an example of historic laws being handed down (probably the most well known declaration of law ever), not a declaration of religion's intrusion.

Have your faith. Embrace it, make it part of your life, it is what defines part of you and that is an amazing thing... but remember, it may not be mine, so don't force it on me, I may believe differently, and that is what makes the US a great country, that we are all allowed this freedom. Let's not take that away by making one faith dictate things for the others.

Just my 2 cents, please don't flame me over this.

I agree with the vast majority of what you say, however in this country their are people running for office who want things exactly opposite of that:

The Bible says we are to be salt and light. And salt and light means not just in the church and not just as a teacher or as a pastor or a banker or a lawyer, but in government and we have to have elected officials in government and we have to have the faithful in government and over time, that lie we have been told, the separation of church and state, people have internalized, thinking that they needed to avoid politics and that is so wrong because God is the one who chooses our rulers. And if we are the ones not actively involved in electing those godly men and women and if people aren’t involved in helping godly men in getting elected than we’re going to have a nation of secular laws. That’s not what our founding fathers intended and that’s certainly isn’t what God intended."

So according to this Senatorial candidate, she knows what God wants and God (and Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin) wants religious law to govern us. I don't know about you, but people who get PM's from God scare me as do people who get PM's from the dead (even founding fathers).

Allowing people like this to take over our country will only result in a government similar in function to the Taliban's Afghanistan. Osama Bin Laden may have already defeated us. If the USA gives up its freedoms to become a theocracy, then Al-Quaida has won.

Why does the US refuse to allow Iraq to be a theocracy while moving its own government toward theocracy?

Why does the US condemn Iran for being a theocracy while moving its own government toward theocracy?

[nursekathy2u 0]

What is a theocracy????

[nursekathy2u 0]

My mother married very young - around 18. Her first husband was a real gem. He moved her across the country, joined the military, and on the day he returned from bootcamp he used a tire Iron to beat her into a coma in their apartment complex's parking lot. He then raped her while she was unconscious. She divorced him, and was no longer allowed to participate fully in her church's activities because of it.

When she filed for divorce, he came after her with a butcher knife, and she happened to run to my father's door for help -- which is how my parents met. My parents have the most incredible relationship, but had hard times financially when they were first starting out. When they got married, it was done by a judge in his courtroom because the $100 they had between them just wasn't enough to pay for a church wedding. There are now even more things she isn't allowed to do, because "in the eyes of the church" she acted inappropriately. She would have had a church wedding, but couldn't afford their asking price.

At the time when she needs the support and love of her church family the most they turn their back on her. How very sad.

My brothers church strongly supports and is involved in a "prison ministry" and in fact my brother met the minister at that church when he was in prison. When he got out of prison he joined that church with the full blessings of the minister. However when one member of the church found out he was a convicted felon she raised such a stink he was asked to leave the church. So they are in favor of ministering to him while he is safely locked up in prison but he better not ever darken their doorstep now that he has served his sentence and needs church support the most???

[Teresita 0]

My mother married very young - around 18. Her first husband was a real gem. He moved her across the country, joined the military, and on the day he returned from bootcamp he used a tire Iron to beat her into a coma in their apartment complex's parking lot. He then raped her while she was unconscious. She divorced him, and was no longer allowed to participate fully in her church's activities because of it.

When she filed for divorce, he came after her with a butcher knife, and she happened to run to my father's door for help -- which is how my parents met. My parents have the most incredible relationship, but had hard times financially when they were first starting out. When they got married, it was done by a judge in his courtroom because the $100 they had between them just wasn't enough to pay for a church wedding. There are now even more things she isn't allowed to do, because "in the eyes of the church" she acted inappropriately. She would have had a church wedding, but couldn't afford their asking price.

WOW you mom's story says so much. It is amazing, your parents would have never met if it wasn't for her first husband. Life is so strange. I'm sorry she had to go through that mess.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

What is a theocracy????

My definition: A government run by religious law or leaders who makes laws to reflect their religion's beliefs or their opinions of the religion's values.

By the dictionary:

1. a form of government in which God or a deity is recognized as the supreme civil ruler, the God's or deity's laws being interpreted by the ecclesiastical authorities.

2. a system of government by priests claiming a divine commission.

3. a commonwealth or state under such a form or system of government.

4. A government ruled by or subject to religious authority.