Touch Shyness

[ouroborous 519]

So, I wasn't really sure where else to put this.

I've lost the weight (well, most of it, anyway). My body is the best looking it has been in... well, ever. Aside from a couple of minor areas (which, of course, my "monkey mind" magnifies and exaggerates, but which I know are ultimately really trivial), I know that I look good, especially considering that I'm 41; I look SO much better than most guys my age... I'm fit, trim, and muscular just when most guys are really starting to balloon up and let go of their appearance. Additionally, I know that -- as unfair as it is -- men tend to get a lot more slack for having a couple of laugh lines and some grey in their hair than women do (like I said, it's not fair, but it's just the way our biology works -- reproductive fitness is a huge part of physical attraction, plus it's a social thing). I am... romantically available (long, complicated story, but that's the short version). In every way, when it comes to interaction with interesting and attractive women (and, I suppose, men, if I swung that way), everything's coming up aces. Except for one thing...

I'm insanely touch-shy! I was hoping that this would go away when I lost the weight -- that it would be the result of not "liking" my body -- but it has not. In some ways, it's gotten worse because now people actually WANT to touch me; yet I still pull away or flinch away when folks reach for me or enter my personal space. I'm not, in almost every other way, poorly-adjusted. I'm generally happy, generally upbeat, I don't drink or drug myself into oblivion every night. I have a good job, a future, hopes, dreams, and goals. Basically speaking, from a mental health perspective, I'm fine -- or at least as "fine" as anybody ever is. But I have this deeply ingrained, almost unconscious reaction to touch -- I crave it, I love it, I literally fantasize about touch and cuddling (sad? or sweet? you decide...) -- but I also pull away from it.

I'm not completely isolated; I'm not a virgin, and I do give hugs and shake hands and so forth. I do not simply run for the hills when someone enters my personal space. But, it's challenging, and my first instinctive reaction is to pull away or stiffen up like a board. Neither of these are very conducive to romantic relationships (or even, for that matter, just lighthearted, easy, playful relationships, which include friendly touches on the arm and shoulder -- for guy friends -- or hugs and non-sexual "pets" for female friends... giving OR receiving). And I want this kind of contact! I've gotten to the point in my life where I could care less about casual sex; my touch shyness isn't exclusively about THAT kind of touch. It's more about wanting to "be easy" in my mind and body with the sort of casual, gentle touch that most people take for granted.

In short, my touch shyness is REALLY holding me back from having the kind of warm, connected relationships I crave.

Has anyone else had this problem? I find that when I research it on the net, most of the discussions seem to focus around issues of past abuse (I have no past abuse) or maternal coldness (much more likely; my mother, for all that I love her, is also and always has been VERY touch shy; that's probably where I picked it up -- I don't seek to blame, simply to understand the origins). However, knowing this really doesn't help me; like I said, I don't want to focus on "mommy issues" and I really do think that in general I'm mentally healthy. But this touch shyness is really causing me grief!

[LadyIvy 159]

I have exactly the same problem. I have no abuse issues and am a fairly well adjusted person. I have found that some peoples personal "bubbles" just seem larger than others. I also do not like crowds. I don't know how much the two go together, but it is logical. I find that it is something that I have to stay focused on so that people don't feel rejected. I really have to focus on not taking a step back when someone takes a step towards me. I have been doing it so long it is subconscious, but people pick up on it whether they realize it or not.

[ouroborous 519]

Yeah, and it's frustrating -- because you can unconsciously be giving "go away" signals when you are really interested in being near the person and being friendly.

It's also complicated by the fact that our society is a little mixed up on the connection between touch and sexuality, so talking about this is difficult -- when you say you want to touch someone, often the response is a nudge and a wink, like you're trying to "get lucky," when all you mean is that you want to be able to react to a hug with warmth and acceptance, not with a stiff posture and pulling away.

I had a "dating coach" (don't laugh... too much!) test my "personal bubble" to see where I'm comfortable with people being. First, I have a rather large "bubble," relatively speaking! Second, when he intentionally "intruded" on my space, it was SO BIZARRE; I actually FELT my body tense up, I automatically looked away from him -- without even intending to, even knowing exactly what he was doing! It was like a hiccup, so completely out of my control.

Normally I wouldn't pay too much attention to this, but I find that it's really a hindrance to having a warm romantic life (even if you aren't actively dating and are monogamous, I can see that touch shyness would be a concern with your partner because as far as I can tell, it doesn't care WHO the person is, it's just an instinctive thing! And even if you don't care about romance at all, it's a hindrance to having close friends, because humans rely upon touch -- small touches on the hand or arm or other "safe" areas -- to stay connected and emotionally close.

And I LOVE touch. I crave it! I'm not anti-touch! But I have this weird part, deep down in me, that tenses or shrinks away from it; I want that part out of me!

I'm glad to find someone else who deals with the same thing, even though it's a tough thing to deal with.

[Dooter 1,457]

Hmmmm....,you need to find a girl who doesn't give a poo what you like and jumps on your lap and smothers you with kisses!!! Hahaha that could start to desensitize you to it! Make yourself some small "touch goals" and purposely seek to fulfill them and you may find your goals getting more brave as you go. (?)

[ouroborous 519]

To be honest, I'd love to have a friend like that; and it would be best if it were non-sexual. Hard to explain why, but part of the problem for me is that touch and sex are really tangled up in my head. If someone touches me -- even just a pat on the back from another guy I **know** is hetero -- my mind immediately starts going into sex mode (what do they want from me? what do I want from them? is this where I want to be?)... and that keeps me from being "in the moment." Ultimately, I know that's about trust, but it's super distracting; that's why I think that having a flirty, touchy friend that I wasn't sleeping with would be WONDERFUL -- it would help me desensitize. Unfortunately, they don't seem to exist...

[LadyIvy 159]

They do exist, but it is probably by far and away the most difficult relationship to find!

[Wheetsin 714]

You may have mentioned this above, if so I missed it, were you this way before losing the weight as well? Is there any point in time when you can remember this setting in, or has it always been that way (at least as far as you can remember)?

I hate people touching me. Even something as innocuous as meeting a friend for lunch who wants to give me a hug when we part, or taking a driver's hand to get out of a car, an introductory handshake, or whatever. It applies to strangers, acquaintances... but even the people I'm closest to. My husband (of almost 15 years) for example. I am OK with my husband touching me most of the time, but he's a "cuddler" and it drives me nuts. I don't mean this as in sexual, I just mean it as in human contact - you could replace "my husband" with "my parents" and it's equally true. DH is a very touchy guy and always wanting to hold hands, or have his arm around me or rub my neck or something and it just bugs the crap out of me. He always wants to be touching when we go to bed (even just a foot against a foot -- again, nothing that has to be sexual) and sometimes I'm ok with it, sometimes I initiate it, but the vast majority of the time I "tolerate" it and then move away once he's asleep.

But I don't crav those types of "connections" (physical, which is also going to be mental) as you do, I actively try to avoid them. I just don't really like people, and I REALLY don't like people touching me. It's partly a personal space thing, partly a behaviorized shame thing related to weight (at my heighest weight - about 90 lbs heavier than I am now - someone would go to, say, put their arm on my back as though to indicate you first and I'd be like... great, you're gonna feel my back rolls...), partly protection, partly... on and on.

Dn't get too down on yourself about it. You can be a well rounded person and still have aversions, or insecurities, or whatever's going on. We're all neurotic, but we're not all insane.

[ouroborous 519]

It would definitely be easier if I didn't enjoy touch, but I really do. I'm just quite averse to it. I'm curious if others have had the same experiences, and what -- if anything -- they've done to get over it. I'm hoping that maybe some kind of desensitization might work; regular massage, perhaps? There is a connection to body shame, but not so much -- I'm just not really ashamed of my body anymore.

LadyIvy: this has been my entire life, unfortunately. Before I lost the weight it was even worse, because it was wrapped up with a great deal of body shame. Now I'm borderline PROUD of my body (as you may have noticed in my initial post! I've been working hard to look good) despite my flaws. But I'm still sort of unconsciously averse to touch. And I hate it! I really think that you limit your ability for warm, connected human relationships if you can't gracefully give and receive loving touch.

I'll see if I can find a masseuse who is not of the "happy ending" variety in my area; I really think I might benefit from some "professional help" in this one particular area of my life.

[shangefan 193]

I say bravo to you for recognizing this and having the courage to discuss it. I have no doubt that the example of your mother contributed to this, but I also think it IS about your history with your body. I suspect that an inclination toward a distrust of touch (as learned behavior) added to what probably was great discomfort with your body in the past developed a strong disinclination to be accepting of touch.

I have to say that I do not think it would be very effective to have someone force you to accept their touch or simply ignore your feelings about this. It is much deeper than that and you run the risk of further solidifying in your position.

I think that we can give you lots of armchair advice, but I really think you should discuss this with a professional. I think taht would help you to really think through everything that is at work and allow you to free yourself. One of the things that people on this forum say frequently is that the sleeve can change your stomach but it doesn't change what is going on in your head. People often are referring to the way that we think about food, but I think it is much more. I think it also is about how we we think about our bodies, who we see ourselves to be and how we think of ourselves in relation to others.

That's my two sense: find a therapist whom you can trust. You'll be happy you did.

[allmyjoy 21]

Do you need a volunteer?

I know it sounds crazy but there was a teacher on the tv show "Glee" that was way phobic of others. I know i'm not a teenager, but i loved that show. It took the right person to give her the time that she needed and when she felt comfortable she would let him know the time. They learned to love, kiss, hug and really connected. I know its a tv show, but i really love fairytale endings. (i'm waiting on my knight in shining armer) maybe its an idea to watch a few of the episodes. Ive never experienced that problem, I wish you the best!

[ouroborous 519]

I don't really think talking to a counselor would help me very much, because I don't believe that this is a problem that is amenable to rationality. I agree about the causes -- a body-shy mother who never really gave physical affection, coupled with a great deal of body shame my entire life to reinforce that. But knowing the genesis of a problem doesn't make it go away; in fact, in some ways, I feel like trying to get counseling on the topic would just reinforce the idea that this somehow makes me "broken" or defective. I'm not broken or defective any more than someone who is afraid of heights or dogs is broken or defective; I don't need years of intensive therapy. What I need are effective strategies for overcoming what is, effectively, a phobia.

And I really believe that some of the strategies that are effective for other phobias -- namely desensitization -- will help. One thing that will really help me is to dissociate touch from sexuality; by understanding that not all touch has to "go somewhere" that will let me understand that giving and receiving hugs, pats, and other gentle touch doesn't necessarily have to spin my monkey mind into thoughts of whether or not we're going to "get busy." That sort of thinking is really destructive to being genuinely present when interacting with someone.

I do appreciate the advice, however, even when I somewhat disagree

And allmyjoy: I'd love volunteers. Sadly, however, I can't find any who live less than one million miles away...

[shangefan 193]

Hmmm. Interesting.

At any rate, good luck.

[Wheetsin 714]

I'm going to be very forthright with you because I think you may have some misconceptions about what therapy is and is not, and those misconceptions might be causing an aversion to something that sounds like exactly what you might need. Please don't take this as "harsh" -- I don't think it is, but I certainly don't want it to come across as such.

in some ways, I feel like trying to get counseling on the topic would just reinforce the idea that this somehow makes me "broken" or defective. I'm not broken or defective any more than someone who is afraid of heights or dogs is broken or defective; I don't need years of intensive therapy. What I need are effective strategies for overcoming what is, effectively, a phobia.

Have you ever been to therapy? (You don't have to answer that, just consider it a rhetorical question.) It doesn't seem like you have. Therapy is not for people who are broken or defective. EVERYONE is "defective." Everyone on this planet is neurotic. That's not a bad thing. Therapy is from people who would benefit from understanding their motives and the origins of their current selves. There are a lot of types of therpay, but I'm speaking generically here. There's a stigma that you only go to therapy or counseling to fix a problem: that you must have a mental problem if you have to talk to a mental health professional. If you tell someone you're in therapy, they tend to react in a "Oh... you're one of those..." kind of way. That's just not the case. America is GROSSLY under-therapied, and over-medicated.

I'm not a psychologist nor a therapist, but I have a master's degree in psychology and a master's degree in human performance - very closely related fields, and that's not coincidence. A number of my peers have gone on to be clinicians... behavioral scientists, researchers, etc. And experts on human behavior should be about the most well-rounded people we know, right? EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, without exception, sees a therapist.

No one is trying to suggest you need "years of intensive therapy" - but it sounds like you might enjoy a confidant to talk to your problems about. I mean, you're talking to us about them (which is great, don't get me wrong), so it seems like you're ready to stop internalizing it and maybe even get some input. But you'd be best-served getting it from people who can help you understand where it is stemming from, why it is manifesting in the way it is, and what you can do to cope, or incite change, etc.

It seems to me like you have a misguided understanding of what therapy is about. It's not to "fix" you, or because you're crazy and need to be kept in control, or because there's "something wrong". Know what therapy is best for? Let me quote you: effective strategies for overcoming (or at least coping... not everything can be overcome).

[ouroborous 519]

I ended up writing a long response, and deleting it. Suffice it to say that counseling is NOT for me.

I know counseling works for some people, and for them -- more power to them.

For me (and yes, I've done it, when I was younger -- years, and years, and endless, grinding years of it) it was just talk, talk, talk and no actual progress. All my progress happened when I WASN'T in counseling, and I felt more positive about myself to boot. So, I'll stick with what works for me.

[Wheetsin 714]

Just like anything else, there are good ones and bad ones. And with that I will stop.