Don't Complain about your Government

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

All IMO...

Communism isn't a bad thing. Fascism is a bad thing. Too many people don't know the difference and lump it (along with socialism) into one big lump.

100% true IMHO.

I made the huge mistake about 20 years ago while in shop steward union school (conducted by a professor from Cornell's dept of labor) to mention that unions were a form of communist organization. The other gung-ho "USA First" class members were ready to rip my throat out until the professor came to my (verbal) aid to assure them that I was correct.

I've never spent a significant amount of time in a communist country, but I have in a socialist, and it was actually a bit of a breath of fresh air - literally and figuratively.

There has never been a Communist country on the planet Earth.

Only if the Premier, President or Party Leader (what ever the head of state was called) made the same amount of money as the janitor who cleaned the head of state's living quarters (the county's "White House" per se), would it have truly been a Communist country.

[dawg 0]

With regards to the news.

You can take what you are fed by the tabloid news approach, or you can actually take an interest and find the 'real' news.

Perhaps in ten years time a lot of people will only remember that guy who claimed to kill that kid beauty pageant girl. I bet they will know about the Afghan campaign and Iraq as well.

In a military situation, people get killed. The term "Friendly Fire" has been around for a very very long time. I remember well the UK tank that got destroyed by "friendly fire" in the Gulf War. Who was to blame? Certainly not any government, or the generals, and probably not even the person who pulled the trigger.

The bottom line is, in any offensive or defensive situation people get hurt.

I don't mind people pointing the finger at the government and saying its their fault, if it's categorically true.

Scenario time.

You are in charge (whatever political "side" you like).

Your chief security advisors (and lets face it, the people passing the information are civil servants, not politicians) walk in and say "Mr/Mrs/Ms President, we have firm belief that there is massive proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and that Iraq will supply these weapons to Al'Quaide (yeah I know I spelled that wrong)."

Your military leaders advise you "We think this represents a clear and present danger to the United States, we recommend a first strike".

Now you sit in the big chair. All by yourself.

You decide.

Given the reams of material data provided to the White House by the NSA (civil servants), the CIA (whoops, so are they), Secret Service (them too), FBI (and them), and of course, the Military (whatdya know, they aren't elected either), I wouldn't have wanted to make the choice.

[Wheetsin 714]

There has never been a Communist country on the planet Earth.

You're right, and I didn't bother getting terribly specific. My bad.

[Wheetsin 714]

I made the huge mistake about 20 years ago while in shop steward union school (conducted by a professor from Cornell's dept of labor) to mention that unions were a form of communist organization. The other gung-ho "USA First" class members were ready to rip my throat out until the professor came to my (verbal) aid to assure them that I was correct.

And when I've made the statement before that communism isn't a bad thing, people tell me to "Go to Russia if you like it so much".

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Scenario time.

You are in charge (whatever political "side" you like).

Your chief security advisors (and lets face it, the people passing the information are civil servants, not politicians) walk in and say "Mr/Mrs/Ms President, we have firm belief that there is massive proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and that Iraq will supply these weapons to Al'Quaide (yeah I know I spelled that wrong)."

Your military leaders advise you "We think this represents a clear and present danger to the United States, we recommend a first strike".

Now you sit in the big chair. All by yourself.

You decide.

Given the reams of material data provided to the White House by the NSA (civil servants), the CIA (whoops, so are they), Secret Service (them too), FBI (and them), and of course, the Military (whatdya know, they aren't elected either), I wouldn't have wanted to make the choice.

Sounds like a good scenario except;

#1. BuSh surrounded himself with cabinet and second level advisers from PNAC who had signed a letter in 1998 asking President Clinton to oust Hussein.

#2. Two cabinet level officials and others who had privy to cabinet meetings have said that BuSh asked "how can we get Iraq?" at his first cabinet meeting in January 2000.

#3. Every time a CIA report came to BuSh with news that led one to believe that there were no WMD nor any means to deliver them, BuSh demanded a new report. I have worked for large corporations and I know that one does not keep his job long telling the boss the opposite of what he wants to hear.

#4. Pre-emptive strikes might sound good in principal, but they are not a very good foreign policy in practice. If every country wants to be sure that they are not attacked by surprise, then they must attack by surprise which gives the other country the right to sneak attack. It is a policy which basically says, "Might Makes Right". And since the winners write the history books, BuSh thought it would work this time. If he read his father's book however, he might have though and acted differently (and over 2600 American soldiers and 100,000 Iraqi civillians might not have lost their lives needlessly).

[maryb 1]

Very interesting! I happen to believe that God is in control of everything.

I also believe no matter what we do, say, or feel... we can not change the past...so why not just let go of it.

We can and will have an impact on the future.

My prayers are that whatever we say or do will have a loving positive impact on that future.

Yes, I am a hope-full optimistic! I read Revelation...in the end we win!

[Bettina 0]

We can't "let go" of the past......we need to remember it so that we can live by it and learn our mistakes (or our strengths) ..if we let it go, history repeats itself...this is fact.

[maryb 1]

Letting go is not forgeting! I will never forget what I went through being the wife of a verbally abusive alcoholic husband, but I did let it go so it didn't scar me for the rest of my life. The resentment nearly ate me alive! When I finally released it, I started being a better, kinder, loving, more generous, more forgiving person....Making my future better.

[Bettina 0]

Letting go is not forgeting! I will never forget what I went through being the wife of a verbally abusive alcoholic husband, but I did let it go so it didn't scar me for the rest of my life. The resentment nearly ate me alive! When I finally released it, I started being a better, kinder, loving, more generous, more forgiving person....Making my future better.

I understand that, and I am sorry you went through that......but we were talking about American History, not personal history. (might makes right--history of facing political adversaries)

(your comment came right after a history post....that is what I was commenting about...no way did i know you meant personal history)

[dawg 0]

Foreign Policy: imho making a first strike at someone who wants to kill you is AOK with me That goes for any nation out there that would like to see us "capitlist infidels" dead. I don't personally believe in sitting around and waiting for someone to kill me.

Peaceful Foreign Policy works great, if the other side is willing to negotiate or talk.

Communism: I think the ideal was Marxism, communism was what it turned into.

And as for who Bush surrounded himself with and what they advised him to do, show me a politician that was ever trully "for the people". They are principally "for themselves getting re-elected". And I don't care what color they claim to be. Have democratic politicians demonstrated a "higher standard" of advosors? I suspect not.

Judges: the High Court is laughable with any party in charge. Justices shouldn't be politically alligned, but indeed they are.

Face it folks. It matters not one damn bit who is presently in the White House, or 10 Downing Street, or any other presidential residence.

They aren't out for their constituents. They aren't interested in "the little people" despite what anyone thinks. They are out for re-election.

God: I agree this is all part of His plan, and I suspect there is much snickering and laughter at all of our antics.

Me: I can't vote because I'm not a citizen. I'm taking an outsider's viewpoint of the system. My opinion is just that, mine.

[maryb 1]

I understand that, and I am sorry you went through that......but we were talking about American History, not personal history. (might makes right--history of facing political adversaries)

(your comment came right after a history post....that is what I was commenting about...no way did i know you meant personal history)

Sorry Betina, I can see how I confused you.

I never cared much for History or Politics. So much fighting and hurting each other! I don't understand war, but I understand that without war we would not have the rights and freedoms we have today. With this thought, would it not be necessary for future wars to continue these rights and freedoms? (This is of course a question from my ignorance)

[maryb 1]

Foreign Policy: imho making a first strike at someone who wants to kill you is AOK with me That goes for any nation out there that would like to see us "capitlist infidels" dead. I don't personally believe in sitting around and waiting for someone to kill me.

Peaceful Foreign Policy works great, if the other side is willing to negotiate or talk.

Communism: I think the ideal was Marxism, communism was what it turned into.

And as for who Bush surrounded himself with and what they advised him to do, show me a politician that was ever trully "for the people". They are principally "for themselves getting re-elected". And I don't care what color they claim to be. Have democratic politicians demonstrated a "higher standard" of advosors? I suspect not.

Judges: the High Court is laughable with any party in charge. Justices shouldn't be politically alligned, but indeed they are.

Face it folks. It matters not one damn bit who is presently in the White House, or 10 Downing Street, or any other presidential residence.

They aren't out for their constituents. They aren't interested in "the little people" despite what anyone thinks. They are out for re-election.

God: I agree this is all part of His plan, and I suspect there is much snickering and laughter at all of our antics.

Me: I can't vote because I'm not a citizen. I'm taking an outsider's viewpoint of the system. My opinion is just that, mine.

Dawg, You sure you are not from Texas...you have that Texas shoot first and ask questions later attitude! LOL

[Bettina 0]

Sorry Betina, I can see how I confused you.

I never cared much for History or Politics. So much fighting and hurting each other! I don't understand war, but I understand that without war we would not have the rights and freedoms we have today. With this thought, would it not be necessary for future wars to continue these rights and freedoms? (This is of course a question from my ignorance)

lol, its okay. I love history. Its so important. I never realized it until I went to europe last year..odd, it took me leaving the US to understand its importance. History is my "highly qualified" area of education and psychology..lol.

Take care!

[dawg 0]

Dawg, You sure you are not from Texas...you have that Texas shoot first and ask questions later attitude! LOL

I'm living in Idaho, so that is definately part of the culture here to.

I do believe in asking questions mind you, but I'm also a supporter of pro-active action.

When sanctions will work, I say use em. If all it's going to do is prolong the inevitable, I say skip to the final chapter.

Is war good? No. Is killing good? No. Are they inevitable? In my opinion, sadly Yes. All the time there are extremists (of any religion, creed, ethnicity or political belief) there will be violence.

I think people just fundamentally don't want to get along.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

It is easy to talk about pre-emptive strikes when you live in the country that spends more money on it's military than all of the other countries of the world combined.

As far as peaceful foreign policy except the other side doesn't want to talk, it is the USA who refuses to talk with terrorists or refuses to talk with madmen. Let's face it North Korea, Iran and Syria all have something that the USA wants. To refuse to talk to them or as Condoleezza Rice says, "they know what they have to do" is foolish. They are tired of jumping through the hoops that the USA says they have to jump through. If the USA doesn't want Iran and North Korea to develop nuclear weapons, then the USA should negotiate with them. If the USA doesn't want Syria to feed weapons to Hezbollah or Hamas, then the USA should negotiate with Syria. If the USA wants Castro to give his people more civil and human rights, the USA should negotiate with Castro.

Prior to the July 4th missile tests, the USA told North Korea through an intermediary that they would negotiate the missile situation if they took the missile down. The USA told Iran through an intermediary that they would negotiate the nuclear situation if they stopped their program. The USA is always willing to negotiate as soon as the other side has given up everything that the USA wants.

Let's say you were looking for a used car and saw an add for a vehicle that Kelly Blue Book says is worth $10,000, but you feel can be gotten for $8,000. Call the guy up and tell him to lower the price to $8,000 and then you will come and look at the car. See if you can negotiate then. Of course not. You have already gotten your outcome.

That is what the USA constantly does. No, I do not hate the USA. I love this country, but I am afraid that we have gotten too big for our bridges. Just about every country in the world has felt the sting of war on their home-land. Not us, until 911. Then we felt it. We cried. Did we learn how bad it feels and decide that war is wrong? No. We just went about our business and did the same thing to innocent civilians in two other countries as was done to us.

Al-Quaida doesn't want to take over the USA. They just want the USA out of the Middle-East propping up tyrannical governments and supporting Israel no matter what. They will keep hurting us until we learn that the more Muslims we kill by accident (or collateral damage), the more fanatics there will be. I can't give an exact figure, but I would imagine that for each innocent person we kill by accident, there are 5 new fanatics ready to die to avenge their loss. If I killed you, I am sure your brother, sons and father would want me dead and that some might try to kill me if there was no justice system or if the justice system failed to act.

It is easy to talk about religious fanaticism when they are Muslims, but not all Muslims are the same. The USA used as an excuse to invade Iraq that Hussein had something to do with 911.

I wonder if BuSh thought that all Christians were the same in Northern Ireland in the 1970's. Both the IRA and the Roman Catholics that they represented, and the protestants that they fought are Christians, but they were far from an homogeneous group.

It may seem like I have wandered, but think of this; "Did mighty England bring down the IRA with force?" The mighty USA will never stop the Muslim fanatics with force. They must find out what the problem is and address it. Building more nuclear bombs and more aircraft carriers is not going to solve the problems.

Matthew; 26-52: "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."

Each Year, The USA Spends more Money on Swords than all the rest of the countries of Earth Spend Combined.