Observations on Castro and Cuban-Americans

[danie 0]

do you feel this same fury when you see people in the middle east dancing in the streets to the fall of the world trade centers, burning our flags.?

[ELENATION 0]

I appreciate your response and I definitely agree with you in some of your views.

Tired Old Man has a right to be shameful, bitter, or hating if that is how he feels, because the USA gives him that right. Very good point...and what I suggested for him, to maybe live somewhere else, was just that, a suggestions, he certainly doesn't have to go anywhere, if he was a citizen of Cuba, he then would have to leave or he'd be in prison there, but here, there is freedom of speech, actions, etc. I only suggested it, because, like you said, I did it myself and it feels so much better not having to live in a place that you disagree so much with it's goverment, so I thought it could be a good option for him, but only a suggestion... I know it felt good for me, when I left Cuba, and yes I can absolutely appreciate this country so much, so maybe that way, he could experience the same awesome feeling that I do...

Yes. Is it possible that those too young to have experienced Castro and his regime may have a hatred for Castro and the regime because they grew up hearing about the horrors and hate him and his regime because of what it has done to their families. In my personal experience, I lived them myself, I left when I was 14, so unfortunately, I have enough bad memories, I heard plenty of stories too, not only by my family, but friends, neighbors, etc. But mainly, I lived those horros myself........

By the way, I consider you open minded by being independent, and by no means wishy washy, I sometimes have considered being independent myself, I have voted republican so far, but I do admire some democrat leaders and consider myself open minded as well, so I don't know what the future holds or if I'm going to be a republican forever......that's perfectly fine in my opinion......... like I told TiredOldMan previously, I don't believe in bashing our goverment, republicans or democrats, I love this country too much to do that. Do we have the right to bash? of course, I just chose not to....

Thank you so much for your response.

Respectully,

Elena

[ELENATION 0]

I defintely do, we have done nothing for them to hate us, that's how I feel.

[jgandg 0]

I can totally understand the desire to go to the country where your family came from, esp if you had never been allowed to go there before. I really enjoyed visiting my Irish relatives, and it was something I had been looking forward to for years - seeing where my family lived, visting long-lost cousins.

If I had been forbidden by Ireland from ever visiting or living there, I can see how that might fuel a desire to do so when the ban was lifted. It would be almost in way to "reclaim" what had been taken from my family.

I'm not Cuban and I know very little of Cuban history, so I can't speak about that. But I can understand the desire to return to the place where one's ancestors are from, and I find nothing anti-American about it.

[ELENATION 0]

Most Definetely, I agree!

That's how those cubans in Miami feel and that's what they are talking about, I for one have never gone back to Cuba since 1976 when I left, I could have, illegally , through Canada, or Bahamas, but I refuse to do something illegal in this country that embraced me with opened arms when I needed it the most, I see it as a betrayal to this country, so I chose not to, but some people have family there and haven't seen their relatives in decades and are desparate and I can totally understand that.

It's like you said, It's in way to "reclaim" what had been taken from your family.

Thank you for your post.

Elena,

PS: I visited Ireland in March for the firs time, what a beautiful country, I want to go back as soon as I can, absolutely gorgeous! I stayed in Dublin and then drove all the way to the Shanon River. My favorite writer (Frank McCourt/Angela's Ashes) was born in Limerick and I wanted to see his place there.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I Don't know where to start.

When I was in grade-school, my step-father worked with a man who was born in Spain, but was a US citizen. He used to go to Havana often to vacation at the casinos. Because he was fluent in Spanish, he did not keep only to the tourist areas and visited the surroundings. Many years later, after Atlantic City was restored, he would visit the casinos there also and occasionally check out the surroundings. He noted the similarities to me. In both cases, there was opulence surrounded by almost criminal poverty. Many of the people who fled Cuba after Castro's revolution where the people who benefited from the disparity between the (mostly white) haves and the (mostly Black) have-nots.

Of course there is still rich and poor in Cuba, but it is a more level playing field than in Batista's reign. Most of the poor are not starving poor. My wife was a (legal) alien until about a year and a half ago when she became a US citizen after living in the US for almost 50 years. Because she was born in Europe, we have more contact with non-US citizens than many US citizens including some who have gone to Cuba since 1959. Some are Spanish speaking and they found that hospitals, while short on certain drugs and supplies (partially if not largely due to the USA's endeavors), where clean and efficient, and available to everyone. The school systems where also very good. A friend of mine who was born in Cuba, but lives in Europe and has gone back and forth many times says that Castro's government has helped the average man.

Capitalism can make for rich men and it can also allow many people to be extremely poor. The US tax structure allows some people to be wealthier as an individual than some countries are, while others are homeless. Cuba has disparity between rich and poor, but there are no Bill Gates, Warren Buffets compared to people who sleep in the streets, differences.

I have been accused of being “shameful, bitter, or hating”, but I am ashamed of nothing. I refuse to play the games of childhood. On the day I was about to have by lap-band implanted, I was given a questionnaire to fill out. One of the questions was “Race”. I answered, “Human”. The nurse assigned to go over the questionnaire, asked be why I wrote “Human”. “Because I am.”

“Aren't you White?”

“Would that have made a difference in the procedure?”

“Aren't you proud to be White?”

“No! But I am not ashamed either.”

She noticed my last name and asked me if I was of Italian decent. I answered affirmatively and she asked if I was proud to be Italian.

“No! But I am not ashamed either.” She told me I should be proud because of all the great accomplishments of Italians like Michael Angelo, De Vinci, Marconi and I responded, “then I would have to be ashamed because of Mussolini and Al Capone.”

“Aren't you proud to be American?”

“No! But I am not ashamed either.”

She told me that I should be proud of all the things that this country has done, but I told her that then I would have to be ashamed of all the bad things it has done, like slavery, the genocide of the native Americans, the support of dictators throughout the world and the dropping of atomic bombs on civilians.

“I will stick to being proud of what I accomplish and of being a good father and provider for my family through hard and honest work. I don't have to love my country's government to be ready to defend my country's ideals as set forth in our constitution.

After Castro's government is gone, I wonder, “How many of the Cubans in Miami will leave the USA to go to Cuba? How many will like the life-style of the Cubans of Cuba and how many will turn Cuba into another indistinguishable state of the USA (though politically independent)?”

I have heard the exiles say that they love Cuba. But what do they love? Not the government. Not the living conditions. Is the soil that much better? Many of the people who claim to love Cuba so much have never been there and are in love with the dreams of their parents or grand-parents. I wonder, “How many of the exiles will return to Cuba and then ask for absentee ballots, so that they can try to control two countries at once?”

I said (in a humorous and sarcastic way) that many of the Cubans who have fled to the US have come because of “the stories about the street paved in gold that they hear about.” It was said in response “cubans are smarter than that..........they come here because it is practically impossible to survive there, that is the sad but honest truth.”

But before we blame all that on Castro, why don't we ask if Vincent Fox is a communist. Many more Mexicans risk their lives to come here than Cubans. And if a Cuban touches US soil, he can stay, but a Mexican can be deported even when here for years after risking the deadly desert crossing and he has less support from peers. Why do the Dominicans come here? Why do the Puerto Ricans come here? It can't be the oppression in Puerto Rico. They have George W. BuSh as president. No. It is longing for a more materialistic way of life. The simple way of life is rejected constantly for the way of “gold”. Wasn't it written in a book once that the “Love of Gold is the root of all evil”? Ok, I am being playful. (It is not often that a “shameful, bitter, or hating” man like me can be so playful.) I know that people want to better themselves, but it is as much (if not more) for material betterment as for political betterment.

Last, but not least: Racial prejudice.

One day (a few years back) while at work, a group of mechanics including myself where in the breakroom/lunchroom watching a TV show on race relations. There were 3 whites, 2 Blacks, 2 Hispanics, one Indian-American (India) watching besides me. The comments were all intelligent, until the two Blacks had to leave, then the whites started making “nigger” remarks and the Hispanics and Indian joined in. When the Hispanics left the room, the whites made “spic” and “nigger” remarks and Indian joined in. As soon as the Indian left, one of the whites made a remark about how funny it was for the Indian to join in, because “I wouldn't let him date my sister”.

Yes, things are better than 100 years ago or even fifty years ago, but racism is still a big part of US life. The nasty words have been supplanted by “code words” and “code sayings”. The problem is that the majority of decent people don't realize that they are “code words” and “code sayings”, so they do not catch on to the games being played. The KKK knew who to endorse in each of the last 10 presidential elections even without the candidate pledging to bar the school-house doors.

I know quite a few Puerto Ricans and Cubans who have gone out of their way to tell me about how their grand-parents all came from Spain. They claim that they are not prejudice, but it is important that I know their ancestry.

Returning to the point (from above) about being proud to be white or American. One day, I was debating with a group of fellow workers about this idea of racial or nationality pride and I asked a Russian-American if he was proud to be of Russian decent, then I asked a man of Irish decent if he was proud to be of Irish decent, then I asked man of Polish decent if he was proud to be of Polish decent, then I asked a man of British decent if he was proud to be of British decent, and finally I asked a man of African decent if he was proud to be of African decent. All answered yes. I then asked each, if they had been born to one of the other men's ethnic group, if he would be equally proud. All eventually agreed that they would have been proud no matter which of the other groups they would have been born into. “So it doesn't matter then does it?” If you are proud of yourself, no matter which group you are born into, then what is there to be proud of?

Oh, I lied. Most would not have been proud to have been of African decent. A few years ago when Michael Jordan was the richest, most famous athlete in the world, I asked two 20 year old co-workers, “wouldn't you like to be able to change places with him?”

They both yelled, “NO!!” When I asked why, they responded “Because he has to kiss Niggers.” They told me that it was ok to screw them, but they would never want to kiss them. Well I doubt if Michal Jordan or Tiger Woods has to kiss niggers. I think they have their choice because of their money and fame, but wouldn't it be nice if they had their choice even if they were poor and unknown?

[ELENATION 0]

I don't know where to start either, you are so wrongfully informed....

Firstly, there is no rich and poor in Cuba now, there is Castro and his people that are rich and there is the rest of the country, whites, blacks and just everybody else who are ALL poor.

SOME, I REPEAT, SOME of the people who fled Cuba after Castro's revolution where the people who benefited from Batista, just SOME, not many, most may have been white, because back then the black population in Cuba was much lower, maybe because racism was popular back then, but not just in Cuba, but all over the world, to blame Batista for that would be just plain stupid. After Castro and as the years went by, cuban population got mixed more and more, like in the rest of the world, again, nothing to do with Batista. Your spaniard friend may have noticed similarities among the casinos, again, poverty was going on all over the world, great depression here and poverty everywhere, blaming Batista for poverty in Cuba is also stupid in my opinion, check who was before him or the financial situation in the world at the time, many factors contributed to poverty in Cuba, Batista could have been one factor, but not 100% responsible, that's for sure. At least, there were rich and poor in Cuba back then, now is "Castro and Poor" that's it!

Your friends that found that hospitals, while "VERY" short on "MOST" drugs and supplies (partially if not largely due to the USA's endeavors/IGNORANT AND DEFINITELY NOT TRUE, SINCE CASTRO HAS HAD OTHER MEANS AND ALLIEDS BEFORE THAT COULD HAVE SUPPLIED IT TO HIM), where clean and efficient, tHAT MAKES ME LAUGH! that, if true, was only because they are paying with dollars, but for the cubans that live there, please allow me to laugh again, DID YOU NOT READ MY PREVIOUS E-MAIL? I ALREADY EXPLAINED TO YOU HOW DISGUSTING THEY ARE, NOT EVEN SUITABLE FOR AN ANIMAL, DON'T YOU BELIEVE ME?........ and available to everyone, SURE, UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS, WHY NOT? BUT IS IT FAIR, I MUCH RATHER PAY MY INSURANCE PREMIUM HERE AND OBTAIN BETTER SERVICE. The school systems where also very good. AT WHAT COST, DID YOU NOT READ MY PREVIOUS E-MAIL ? PLEASE READ IT, OR MAYBE YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE IT. A friend of mine who was born in Cuba, but lives in Europe and has gone back and forth many times says that Castro's government has helped the average man. IS THAT SO? AND WHAT IS HE DOING LIVING IN EUROPE?

Capitalism can make for rich men and it can also allow many people to be extremely poor. ISN'T THAT BETTER THAN HAVING A VERY SMALL FEW, "CASTRO AND HIS ENTOURAGE" RICH AND RICHAR EVERY DAY AND THE WHOLE COUNTRY DYING OF HUNGER AND NOT BEING ABLE TO OBTAIN THE BARE NECESSITIES? AT LEAST HERE, A LOT MORE THAN JUST A FEW ARE ABLE TO LIVE DECENTLY.

You said , "there are no Bill Gates & Warren Buffets" are we jelous and bitter? HEY, IN CUBA, THERE ARE NO BILL GATES, YOU ARE RIGHT, IN CUBA THERE ARE FIDEL CASTRO, RAUL CASTRO AND HIS LARGE ENTOURAGE, AND THOSE DON'T EVEN HAVE THE DECENCY TO MAKE CHARITY DONATIONS AS MR GATES DOES. THOSE ARE GETTING RICHER AND ENJOYING THEM ALL BY THEMSELVES, WHILE THE COUNTRY , AND I MEAN THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS POOR.

You said you have been accused of being “shameful, bitter, or hating”, I WONDER WHY? AND STILL YOU ARE ashamed of nothing? IN MY OPINION, YOU SHOULD BE, JUST FOR BEING COMMUNIST AND STILL DECIDE TO STAY IN THIS "CAPITALIST" COUNTRY.L SHAME ON YOU.

Obviously you are not proud or ashamed of anything, in my opinion, you just plain and simple have no convictions, you want to be with God and the Devil at the same time, I have no respect for you, that's how I feel and to call yourself a good father, well, only if you didn't raise your children to be like you. There is nothing greater than a man proud of his/her country. as far as you defending your country's ideals, How could you when you hate your country?

WHAT I THINK ABOUT YOU IS THAT YOU ARE THE ONE THAT IS RACIST, THIS WAS A DISCUSSION ABOUT CUBAN AFFAIRS, NOT RACISM AND IN EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOUR POSTS, YOU BRING UP THE RACE ISSUES CONSTANLY, I DON'T TALK ABOUT RACE, BECAUSE TO ME IS NOT AN ISSUE, I LOVE EVERYONE THE SAME AND DON'T FEEL THE NEED TO BRING RACE ISSUES ALL THE TIME, YOU OBVIOUSLY DO, I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU, IN MY OPINION, YOU ARE A RACIST IN THE CLOSET AND A NASTY COMMUNIST, AND I DON'T PLAN TO KEEP ARGUING WITH YOU, BECAUSE I HAVE REALIZED THAT YOU ARE IGNORANT, STUPID AND RACIST. WHEN YOU BRAG ABOUT SOMETHING TOO MUCH FOR NO REASON, IT'S USUALLY BECAUSE YOU ARE HIDDING SOMETHING, AND YOUR CONSTANT RACIAL COMMENTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES, PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO MY THIS/MY POST, IF YOU WANT TO KEEP ARGUING, SEND YOUR POSTS TO SOMEONE ELSE, YOU ARE NOT WORTH OF MY WASTING ONE MORE SECOND ON YOU.

ELENA

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

It is a shame that you feel that you have a right to opinions about me, but I have no right to opinions about Cuba (or the politics of Cuba) which greatly effect my country (and vice versa).

I hope your opinions about Castro are more accurate than your opinions about me (for your sake).

[ELENATION 0]

I already asked you not to write to me anymore, write to someone who wants to listen to your bullcrap, you anti-american, I didn't read this e-mail and won't any other if you insist to write to me, so save your hating bitterness , I don't need it or put up with it.

Elena

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

I already asked you not to write to me anymore, write to someone who wants to listen to your bullcrap, you anti-american, I didn't read this e-mail and won't any other if you insist to write to me, so save your hating bitterness , I don't need it or put up with it.

Elena

I am not writing to you. You are subscribed to this thread, so every time someone, including myself, posts on this thread, you will get an e-mail.

You can un-subscribe or stop getting e-mail by selecting "Post Reply" and then going to in the third section down called "Thread Subscription" of the box below the reply text space labeled "Additional Options" and clicking on the Downward Arrow at the right of "Notification Type:" and then choosing either "Do not Subscribe" or "No Notification".

Would a bitter man be so helpful?

[ELENATION 0]

I don't think you are helpful , I think you hide behind a "nice" facade to let out your poison out later. ...and I don't need your advise to unsubscribe, just post your replay onto some other post instead of mine, if not, I'll know what to do.

You are not being helpful, you are trying to hide behind a nice facade, bu you are you you are,

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

China has some oil rigs off the coast of Cuba, so maybe now Castro can feed his people while China takes oil that the USA thought was theirs. If Castro gives only a small portion of the revenue, that he can receive from these oil wells, to the people of Cuba, the USA may find that the average Cuban's life will improve to such an extent that it may stem the flow of USA bound Cubans. This recent series of events may also guarantee Castro, or at least Castro's form of government an unlimited life expectancy.