Considering A Real Diet

[crosswind 134]

On March 1, it will be eleven months since my surgery. I've lost 92 pounds and I'm happy about it, but I'm forty pounds off of my goal weight of 155.

I have not, since my surgery, ever succumbed to a real diet. I did not count carbs or calories except for getting a general number of calories I was staying under, just to make sure i wasn't really going crazy. The reasons for this are pretty complex -- mostly as a lifelong, seriously obsessive compulsive dieter I decided I really could not manage another diet emotionally. I know this sounds odd to some of you, who've been enthusiastically tracking your calories and carbs and weight loss and staying meticulously under a thousand calories per day, but for me that was just not possible and I will tell you why:

1. I have been able to stay under 900 calories a day for months and lose all kinds of fat only to gain it back. I was on a major roller coaster ride with my weight for most of my adult life and I saw this as an opportunity to lose weight *slowly* and non-obsessively without freaking out because I knew that the smaller calorie deficit over time would make the scale go down, not up, over time. That was a big luxury for me because before if I was not *dieting* I was gaining weight. Up and down. Up and down. The frustration and misery in all that is just indescribeable and it's also really bad for your metabolism. Mine was shredded.

2. Whatever I lost, I planned to never gain back. That meant learning to eat like a normal person. I don't think living on dollops of cottage cheese and Protein shakes comprise eating like a normal person. Eating like a normal person means eating everything and whatever you want in moderation, allowing your body and appetite to dictate your food intake and letting that entire feedback loop settle into a stable pattern over time. That's how you get to a stable weight comfortably. I knew that, or learned it, over the past twenty years of undereating severely, getting down to some satisfactory weight for fifteen seconds and then watching myself pack those pounds back on over time because the feedback loop never reached a stable place.

I'm convinced this pattern is bad for everything. It's bad for your hormones, your sleep, your energy, your nutrition but most *especially* your mental health. I'm convinced that severely overweight people start off with a tiny problem that turns into a massively vicious circle as the rounds of dieting lead to bad health and low mood; lack of exercise leads to even worse lack of exercise due to partially physical and partially emotional factors; exhaustion and low self-esteem lead to addictive eating ( and drinking ) patterns and it's eventually almost unbeatable.

3. I don't want to live by the scale. I know I am overweight and do not want to be, but I have a tendency to overwatch, when I am watching. Dieting and weight loss for compulsive people adds up to a lifetime of terror of gaining weight back because of this cookie or that glass of wine. We become these horrendously abusive scientists who will start to experiment with all kinds of odd protocols and weigh and measure ourselves fanatically, hiding in the practice of weight loss instead of taking an overall view of what we're really doing. I knew I would do that if I started a diet; I knew I would probably get to goal in some amazing amount of time and be sitting here, right now possibly, worrying about whether that last cracker I ate was going to burst the golden bubble of my life at 155.

4. I don't care what the bariatricians say, I believe that if you go too low in your calories you set yourself up for a lifelong struggle. I've done this so many times and I don't believe it's possible to live on 900 calories a day, especially not for years; and if it was what you would get would be a body that learned that its stable metabolism was meant to stay at 900 calories a day, meaning basically you could never eat a single calorie more without rebounding. I've watched myself do it so many times. So I never, except for the first month maybe, was under a thousand calories the entire time since my surgery and most of the time I've been between 1300-1500 *or more*. As I've been paying attention, I know my metabolism might be a little slow BUT it seems to track pretty well with any online calorie calculator. 1700 calories a day is *still* a deficit. It's a slow one, but it's still there.

But eating a thousand calories, walking an hour a day and weight training five times a week just to stay at a certain pants size? I could not, could not, ever live that way again.

However.

I still do have 40 pounds to go. I could go low carb and get under a thousand for a month or two and be done. The problem is adjusting to the monstrous deficit, managing my life in the meantime, and then the scary obsession afterwards as I watch the ten pound to twenty pound spike when I go back to eating my normal 15-1700 calories per day. I'm tempted and I'm tired of waiting. When I got the surgery last April I was 46 years old -- when it's all finished at the rate I'm going I'll be almost 48.

I'm under 200, have 40 pounds to go and I'm tempted. For some reason I feel like I have to decide what to do now. I wake up every morning, look at my much thinner self and think...should I start a diet ? I could be a size six by summertime....

[Dooter 1,457]

My surgeon made this statement to me: "People spend their lifetimes worrying about their weight but not their lifestyle." That is so very true and very wise. Keep your focus on a healthy lifestyle and don't worry about numbers and dates and goals, but focus on how you're moving and eating healthy. When you're not eating right, your body tells you about it, even if you're not staring down a calorie count. You seem to have a handle on your own body's signals. (some of us need a little tracking to get the hang of it!)

Before surgery, we've all been told: "OH, just eat right and exercise and you'll lose weight." (That person then walks away with a black eye ) It's finally true for us!!! HOORAAAYY!!!! Don't put any new monkeys on your back.

[circa 333]

first of all, get it out of your head that you're going on a diet. You're changing your life.

Protein First

Veggies Second

Carbs last.

concentrate on lean Proteins, eggs, chicken, lean beef and pork, fish

Green veggies are the best for you

carbs are usually just crap anyway, and you'll get some from the veggies.

The only thing stopping you is you. Are you ready to get out of your own way?

[Ms skinniness 3,003]

Here's to a healthy more active lifestyle! We deserve it!

[Foxbins 625]

I can only tell you my experience and why I did what I did. I did the low-carb, 600-800 calorie, journal the Protein, calories, and Water bit for 8 months BECAUSE I told myself this would be the last diet I would ever do, and I knew I did not have the patience to let it come off slowly. I gritted my teeth and stuck to it until I got to a normal BMI, then I added in stuff like fruit (Oh, glorious cherry season!) and dairy. I still kept losing. I added in dessert on special occasions--and still kept losing. I ate candy over Christmas--and kept losing. My body finally settled at 12 lbs under goal at 138 lbs. I am 5'8" so I am slim, but I am also 57 years old and I never dreamed I'd look and feel as good as this.

I want to say that I don't eat everything, nor everything my little heart desires. Part of making it to goal for me was also realizing that there is a tradeoff. I can eat anything I want and gain or I can prioritize what I want--skinny jeans or cake? Right now I'm picking the jeans.

I cannot tell you what's best for you but I encourage you to decide what your priorities are--goal or something else?

[crosswind 134]

first of all, get it out of your head that you're going on a diet. You're changing your life.

Protein First

Veggies Second

Carbs last.

concentrate on lean Proteins, eggs, chicken, lean beef and pork, fish

Green veggies are the best for you

carbs are usually just crap anyway, and you'll get some from the veggies.

The only thing stopping you is you. Are you ready to get out of your own way?

. I'm sorry circa but you seemed to have missed my point. I know how to do a lowcarb diet, I was on one for eight months and lost 130 pounds. Then I gained it all back plus ten. Then I got weight loss surgery and lost 92 pounds without dieting. At all.

I'm glad to know you've lost 42 pounds in the 27 days you've been sleeved and that you're sure of your program, but I've been at this eleven months plus my whole life and I'm not sure I need to get anything out of my head except a response to lifelong dietary restriction.

Living the way I do right now; at 13-1700 calories a day and a reasonable number of carbohydrates a day -- that is, over 100 -- I know that through caloric restriction alone I should end up at goal within the next year without dieting at all. What I am saying is that I think at 1700 calories a day -- a *true* 1700 - if your metabolism is running right -- over time you really don't have to pick the jeans over everything because they already fit you.

What I'm saying is that I'm impatient and I know I could get it off faster than this. But I also know the *real* tradeoff, which is *lifetime* restriction -- a *lifetime* of picking the jeans when really the sleeve should be doing that for us.

And carbs are not crap. Extruded corn products are crap, but low glycemic carbohydrates make insulin which is how your body makes muscle. If you are not making insulin you are not making fat but you're not making muscle either. Also low carbohydrate diets suppress dopamine and seratonin and over time this can wear you out emotionally not to mention hormonally.

I've forgotten more about this than most people will ever learn. This has been my career, I know what I'm saying.

[KellyL 173]

Congrats on the 92 lbs, that is phenomenal weight loss in my opinion. I am a very SLOW loser, and that is with being very strict with my carbs and calories. But whether I decide to increase or decrease calories and carbs to get the weight off quicker, I don't think I will EVER call it a "diet". It's just doing what I have to do to get the weight off or especially not to put the weight back on.

There is so much info out there about wheat and carbs being the problem, but then I watched a show today, The Revolution, and Harley was griping about the woman he is helping and they are following to lose weight. Even though she had met his weight loss goal, rather than commend her for her efforts, he accused her of not staying on HIS plan, because she is cutting carbs and he claims that low carb is very temporary weight loss. But on the other hand, most other popular diet plans I have read about recently are pushing low carb, little to no wheat, etc. It's all so confusing. I guess we all have to play with the #'s and food and see what works for us individually. So many things like age, hormones, etc play a part in what we need to do to lose the weight.

What you are doing seems to be working for you. And I think that's what we all have to come to the conclusion of. Yes, you may be able to lose a little faster by cutting calories or carbs, but it doesn't sound like that will make you very happy. I don't know that I would do anything that I am not happy with. The thing about my low calorie low carb eating plan, I don't feel hungry or deprived. It is more of a struggle for me to try to get more in or just enough most days. The only carbs that I miss occasionally if I see them, are the junk carbs. And then it's not an overwhelming, OMG, I have got to have that!! It's just a pleasant memory of how it tasted. But eating those things way too often is what got me close to 300 lbs and Type 2 Diabetic. It's what lead me to the decision of hopping onto a surgery table to remove 85% of my stomach. So I can live without it, or make a choice to have it very rarely, but not let it consume my life.

[CAsleeve 56]

I highly recommend you watch a terrific movie called - Forks Over Knives - http://www.forksoverknives.com/.

It will help tremendously with your diet. If anything it is very enlightening and will likely change at least one thing for the positive with anyone's diet.

You are doing great! I can't wait to get under 200lbs, but I know that is just around the corner.

One Love.

[crosswind 134]

. Hi CASleeve:

I'm writing to you this morning from my job at an academic research facility at a university. The department I work in exclusively studies the effect of nutrition on health.

I did watch this movie last night and realized it was a video presentation of T. Colin Campbell's research in The China Study. I don't want to make tremendous waves here but that study was flawed in several ways -- most obviously in that there is more to liver cancer than the ingestion on one single animal Protein. The argument against *milk* in a non-western population because it has appeared to produce a tendency to liver cancer is also flawed. But then if one also expands this to include *all animal protein* to say that animal protein= cancer -- this is simply illogical.

What we're going to get to in about ten years is the idea that tendency to all disease including obesity is a complex genetic trait that is influenced most strongly by an entire microscopic kingdom inside the gut. Epidemiological studies show the effect of indiginous micoflora on indiginous genetics. meat does not cause cancer. I'd be more concerned about sugar.

. Thanks for your congratulations! It *is* just around the corner!

[circa 333]

Just because I've only been sleeved for a few weeks doesn't mean that I don't know what I'm talking about. You came here asking about a diet. I answered your questions. Your condescending tone doesn't do yourself any good.

Good luck.

[crosswind 134]

. Good luck to you too, Circa. Glad you're here to offer your seasoned advice to the group.

[lyndynojo 140]

I have to say I agree with crosswind on this one. I started many years ago with only about 10 lbs that I wanted to lose and thus began the yo-yo diet mentality that finally got me up to 239 lbs. I chose to have this surgery so I could live like a normal person, NOT be on a diet for the rest of my life. I have lost 74 lbs so far doing absolutely nothing but eating when I'm hungry and stopping when I'm full, just like everyone of a normal weight does. If I begin saying to myself that I can't have this or that then all I want is what I can't have (I hope that made sense, it did in my head. lol). Anyway I do try to eat Protein first but that doesn't always happen and I don't feel that desperate feeling of wanting to eat a whole bag of chips or candy but then shame when I do cause now I just eat a piece of candy or a serving of chips and I'm done. Yes I want to lose another 15 or so pounds but if it comes off slow thats ok too.

[whataloser 25]

Crosswind,

You have obviously given this a lot of thought and tremendous effort to date. There is much truth in what you say. Good luck to you, whatever your decision.

[Catracks 865]

Whew. Glad I didn't reply. I was going to say about the same thing Circa did. Let me make one distinction. I am NOT on a diet. I pretty much eat what I want. It helps that I want Protein. I have carbs in the form of high Protein bread and crackers. Last night for instance, I had some ribeye steak. It's my favorite, but now I skip the fatty part and eat 2 oz instead of 12 or 16. Today I'm having cottage cheese, lobster, shrimp, hummus, yogurt-gorgonzola dip, rye crackers, broccoli and strawberries. I've never had it so good.

THIS is a DIET???

P.S. I also had a Protein shake (I make real tasty ones) and a "dollop" of cottage cheese and stayed under 600 calories. I LIKE cottage cheese and I think this IS how REAL healthy people eat. I don't have much room so everything going in is going to taste phenomenal or I don't eat it. As I get further out my portions will grow, but this is how I plan to eat forever.

[Capt Derel 287]

Plain n simple CARBS ARE YOUR PROBLEM!!!! Bottom line. Argue if you want but unless you succumb to that realization you are doomed. Hell prove me wrong. Take that challange