"cheating" (A Concern)

[Indymom 132]

Christin, it is SO hard. I was miserable for the first 6-8 weeks . . . I had multiple crying breakdowns to my husband, and wondered if I had made a bad decision. I even did the "chew & spit" thing with a few bites of different food just to get a different taste/texture in my mouth.

[LoserMama 37]

This is an interesting thread. The immediate post op time period isn't a time for cheating for sure. But I know I have made choices in the past month that were mistakes.

This may be a bunny trail, but, the word cheating is one I have issues with. Anyone reading or read Beck Diet Solution? It talks about mistakes versus cheating. I think the majority of folks in here who talk about cheating on their post op diets make mistakes, they don't cheat. In all likelihood, a few bites too much or the wrong thing are not going to be the undoing of our sleeve. But when we attach words like cheating to it, there is such a message of immorality and failure to it..I dunno.

I guess apart from the extreme posts like eating a burger and popcorn a couple of days post op, I'd rather see us encourage each other in getting back to doing the right thing. Many many of us got here because of emotional eating and black and white thinking, so I'd rather us offer each other support to do the right behaviors.

While we did have extreme surgery, for many of us the ability to be perfectly compliant doesn't magically occur just because we had the surgery. Maybe I shouldn't have been approved, dunno, but I think I am doing a helluva lot better, even with mistakes, now, than preop!! But by my former harsh use of the word cheating , I definitely have done so many times in the past month. But each time I eat I have a chance to do it better.

Eta--not upset by original post, just challenging us to think about what cheating really is and encourage us to help each other out of black and white thinking!!!!

[DoOver 17]

While I agree that it is important to be careful and to take our surgery seriously, my surgeon (and he was one of the VSG pioneers) advocates a full diet by 4 weeks. He discourages Protein drinks after surgery and only "allows" 3 meals a day and no Snacks.

I don't think there has been any empirical studies done on post-op eating and many doctors are going by the old Bypass recommendations-which is why we have so many differing pre and post op diets going on.

So while I don't think we necessarily need to stick to soft foods for 2 months-we should certainly follow our surgeons recommendations to give us the best chance at success.

Amazing. I was not to full foods for 9 weeks. And frankly at that point it was a struggle. I know I couldn't have done it at 4 weeks. I stuck to the plan as perfectly as a I could and I"m not sure I'd have even really wanted to have cheated as it was uncomfortable to be adding solid food even when I did.

I agree....follow your plan. But I also find it amazing that the surgeons have such a wide range of programs.

[pneal 5]

My burger bite was me trying to say that me being a year out already it didnt harm me. It also didnt make me feel good either. I was super sensitive to a lot of foods the first 6 months post op. And I still am. Your body will let you know that you feel like crap. And today a year later, my MIND, let's my body know that. I feel like my sleeve was intense physical therapy for not only my weight, but mind as well. I've given in to a bunch of cravings. I'm 90 pounds down and very proud of it! Exceeded my goal. Went from a size 18/20 to a size 2.

This is an interesting thread. The immediate post op time period isn't a time for cheating for sure. But I know I have made choices in the past months that were mistakes.

This may be a bunny trail, but, the word cheating is one I have issues with. Anyone reading or read Beck Diet Solution? It talks about mistakes versus cheating. I think the majority of folks in here who talk about cheating on their post op diets make mistakes, they don't cheat. In all likelihood, a few bites too much or the wrong thing are not going to be the undoing of our sleeve. But when we attach words like cheating to it, there is such a message of immorality and failure to it..I dunno.

I guess apart from the extreme posts like eating a burger and popcorn a couple of days post op, I'd rather see us encourage each other in getting back to doing the right thing. Many many of us got here because of emotional eating and black and white thinking, so I'd rather us offer each other support to do the right behaviors.

While we did have extreme surgery, for many of us the ability to be perfectly compliant doesn't magically occur just because we had the surgery. Maybe I shouldn't have been approved, dunno, but I think I am doing a helluva lot better, even with mistakes, now, than preop!!

[christin 54]

Christin, it is SO hard. I was miserable for the first 6-8 weeks . . . I had multiple crying breakdowns to my husband, and wondered if I had made a bad decision. I even did the "chew & spit" thing with a few bites of different food just to get a different taste/texture in my mouth. :smile1:

I haven't cried yet, but definitely a little frustrating. I am definitely battling cravings and head hunger. The only good news is that I have no physical hunger. That is the only reason I am able to stay on track. I think if my stomach growled like it used to I would be a goner!

[yecats 109]

It worries me when i read about people cheating so early out too. Why go through all the pain if you are just going to go back to your old ways in a week? Just because it MAY go down without hurting doesnt mean you SHOULD eat it. Those are the people who complain that the scale isnt moving, the sleeve doesnt work.

I think its good that i had to wait 6 months to have my surgery. it gave me time to really pay attention to my trigger foods, go to foods and start to get a grasp on why i ate what i ate and when. I have thought about junk food too. When i was a week out my MIL and daughter baked a cake and she sent it home with my daughter. I thought about that cake all day and night. My husband got really upset with his mom and threw it away because she told him she was "testing me".

Im sure that eventually i will have something im not supposed to eat, but its not going to be intill I control the cravings, they dont control my anymore. and it will be after i am completely healed, and will be completely worth it, not just because i am upset or bored.

:woot: I will make the sleeve work for me this is my second and last chance!

Well said!!!!

[Amanda 3.0 140]

This is an interesting thread. The immediate post op time period isn't a time for cheating for sure. But I know I have made choices in the past month that were mistakes.

This may be a bunny trail, but, the word cheating is one I have issues with. Anyone reading or read Beck Diet Solution? It talks about mistakes versus cheating. I think the majority of folks in here who talk about cheating on their post op diets make mistakes, they don't cheat. In all likelihood, a few bites too much or the wrong thing are not going to be the undoing of our sleeve. But when we attach words like cheating to it, there is such a message of immorality and failure to it..I dunno.

I guess apart from the extreme posts like eating a burger and popcorn a couple of days post op, I'd rather see us encourage each other in getting back to doing the right thing. Many many of us got here because of emotional eating and black and white thinking, so I'd rather us offer each other support to do the right behaviors.

While we did have extreme surgery, for many of us the ability to be perfectly compliant doesn't magically occur just because we had the surgery. Maybe I shouldn't have been approved, dunno, but I think I am doing a helluva lot better, even with mistakes, now, than preop!! But by my former harsh use of the word cheating , I definitely have done so many times in the past month. But each time I eat I have a chance to do it better.

Eta--not upset by original post, just challenging us to think about what cheating really is and encourage us to help each other out of black and white thinking!!!!

I do like your post, but would like to add that many of us got to where we were pre-surgery by living in denial, and thinking that a little of this or that doesn't really matter. And, many of us have been encouraged to live in denial by loved ones who tell us that we can have "just a little bit", or "you're not fat".

And, I see people posting on the internet who get upset if someone has the gall to disagree with something they've done. Like they only want to read "That's okay", "You'll be fine." Anyone who replies differently is considered unsupportive.

We just had the majority of a major organ cut off, and unfortunately, we still need to use it while it recovers. If the doctor says to eat a certain type of food, we should be doing just that. To do anything else is to be out of control just like how we got this way in the first place.

So, I do think we can be supportive, yet blunt. Sometimes blunt is needed. I, for one, am not offended by blunt. Bring on the blunt!

[thebionicbroad 127]

Amen, sister! "Cheating" means breaking the rules. Why have the surgery if you don't intend to do what you are supposed to do? Sheer silliness. And, yes, denial.

[thebionicbroad 127]

I like blunt, too.

[pneal 5]

Blunt is good. This is a support site right? Maybe some people need a different kind of way of support. I'm no guru on people's thoughts or means of feeling support, but i do know personally that if i fall, i get right back up. Keep in mind, eating for me personally is an addiction like alcoholism or drug abuse. food was mine. Have a good one !

I do like your post, but would like to add that many of us got to where we were pre-surgery by living in denial, and thinking that a little of this or that doesn't really matter. And, many of us have been encouraged to live in denial by loved ones who tell us that we can have "just a little bit", or "you're not fat".

And, I see people posting on the internet who get upset if someone has the gall to disagree with something they've done. Like they only want to read "That's okay", "You'll be fine." Anyone who replies differently is considered unsupportive.

We just had the majority of a major organ cut off, and unfortunately, we still need to use it while it recovers. If the doctor says to eat a certain type of food, we should be doing just that. To do anything else is to be out of control just like how we got this way in the first place.

So, I do think we can be supportive, yet blunt. Sometimes blunt is needed. I, for one, am not offended by blunt. Bring on the blunt!

[former_vbg 198]

I do agree. Sometimes a little tough love is in order. It can be done with tact certainly, but I know if I come on here and I'm talking about eating foods that are counter productive to experiencing weight loss or maintaining, I WANT someone to give me a kick in the pants. Will it be tough to read? Sure, but I respect people who tell me what I NEED to hear, not what I WANT to hear.

I do like your post, but would like to add that many of us got to where we were pre-surgery by living in denial, and thinking that a little of this or that doesn't really matter. And, many of us have been encouraged to live in denial by loved ones who tell us that we can have "just a little bit", or "you're not fat".

And, I see people posting on the internet who get upset if someone has the gall to disagree with something they've done. Like they only want to read "That's okay", "You'll be fine." Anyone who replies differently is considered unsupportive.

We just had the majority of a major organ cut off, and unfortunately, we still need to use it while it recovers. If the doctor says to eat a certain type of food, we should be doing just that. To do anything else is to be out of control just like how we got this way in the first place.

So, I do think we can be supportive, yet blunt. Sometimes blunt is needed. I, for one, am not offended by blunt. Bring on the blunt!

[LoserMama 37]

Blunt is good. This is a support site right? Maybe some people need a different kind of way of support. I'm

Yeah, I think that is what I am thinking about. I have struggled with this a lot over the last year, thinking about this. I guess i've found that I react a lot better with encouragement rather than bluntness, and that is me. I don't need someone to sugar coat it for me, I just dont' need someone judging me, because I already do it a lot worse to myself.

A lot of people got here through denial, very true and no doubt. Denial probably plays a role in most emotional eating issues. but it may not be the biggest issue for all of us.

I got here not by denial as my primary problem, I've always been painfully aware of how bad what I was doing was, but unable to stop. I've spent years continually beating myself up and being way more blunt and over critical with myself than anyone else could ever be. For me, using language that represents a judgement on an action, is very black and white when I talk to myself or someone else, and is something I'm really trying to change. So a word like "cheating" is just a super loaded word to me. Which for those of us who have this particular flaw in thinking, cheating leads to feeling I'm a failure, and then that leads to thinking why bother and more failure. But saying I made a mistake, helps me know I can do better next time.

Think of it this way....if you forget to take a dose of a medication you need to take, do you consider that you have cheated? I don't. I don't think I'm a failure or that I've completely blown it.

Taking the emotions and judgement out of things is helping me a lot in getting to a new normal.

The other thing that is interesting is how we define cheating. The original poster, Indymom, said:

... the term "cheating" to me makes me think of being on Weight Watchers and deciding to eat a medium pizza by myself with breadsticks and a 2-liter of Pepsi, and not count the points.

which is a way different definition of cheating than I have. I think that if I have eaten one more bite than I should have, or a type of food I shouldn't have, that I have cheated. And I'm trying to beat that kind of judgemental feeling out of myself, because when I feel that way I feel like a failure.

I'm encouraged by this kind of discussion about what works for us.

If useful, here is a coverage on this from Beck Diet Solution, which is the cognitive behavioral based therapy approach to eating issues developed by Judith Beck, who's father actually developed CBT.

No more "cheating"

The word cheat doesn't appear again in this book outside of this box. I've omitted it intentionally because too many unsuccessful dieters have all-or-nothing thoughts about their eating: Either I'm perfect on this diet or I've cheated...If I've cheated, I've blown it--I may as well continue to cheat for the rest of the [day/week/month/year]/ I've found that people who view themselves as having cheated usually feel demoralized and even "bad." which makes it even more difficult for them to get back on track. Instead of cheat, I've used the words unplanned eating and overeating. These terms are less negatively charged. People who use them are able to take a more benign view and say Okay, so I ate something I didn't plan to eat or I ate more than I was supposed to. But they're also able to then add, It was just a mistake, no big deal...I'll get back on track for the rest of the day.

The other thing that I think about, is in post-op diet, what really IS cheating? I mean with the super wide variation of advice on the post-op diet, those of us who research and see all this variation, you realize that there is a WIDE definition of what is considered ok during the immediate post-op diet phase. My single surgeon and his plan is not the definitive be-all end-all of advice. I don't take one person's plan and advice as my absolute truth. If there were a gold standard out there, or if all of their advice was remarkably similar, then I'd say the choices i've made since surgery that deviated from my doc's handout would be something to think more about why I've made other choices.

Example there -- the Cornell VSG post op guidelines say we can have oatmeal, grits, farina. My doc's guidelines say no. Am I cheating if I have thinned oatmeal?

All very interesting.

I *think* the original post was targeted at folks that are blatantly doing really major things that are not good for them in the post-op phase, which I support, but where is the line? This really triggered me to do a lot of thinking! Thanks!

[Amanda 3.0 140]

Yeah, I think that is what I am thinking about. I have struggled with this a lot over the last year, thinking about this. I guess i've found that I react a lot better with encouragement rather than bluntness, and that is me. I don't need someone to sugar coat it for me, I just dont' need someone judging me, because I already do it a lot worse to myself.

A lot of people got here through denial, very true and no doubt. Denial probably plays a role in most emotional eating issues. but it may not be the biggest issue for all of us.

I got here not by denial as my primary problem, I've always been painfully aware of how bad what I was doing was, but unable to stop. I've spent years continually beating myself up and being way more blunt and over critical with myself than anyone else could ever be. For me, using language that represents a judgement on an action, is very black and white when I talk to myself or someone else, and is something I'm really trying to change. So a word like "cheating" is just a super loaded word to me. Which for those of us who have this particular flaw in thinking, cheating leads to feeling I'm a failure, and then that leads to thinking why bother and more failure. But saying I made a mistake, helps me know I can do better next time.

Think of it this way....if you forget to take a dose of a medication you need to take, do you consider that you have cheated? I don't. I don't think I'm a failure or that I've completely blown it.

Taking the emotions and judgement out of things is helping me a lot in getting to a new normal.

The other thing that is interesting is how we define cheating. The original poster, Indymom, said:

which is a way different definition of cheating than I have. I think that if I have eaten one more bite than I should have, or a type of food I shouldn't have, that I have cheated. And I'm trying to beat that kind of judgemental feeling out of myself, because when I feel that way I feel like a failure.

I'm encouraged by this kind of discussion about what works for us.

If useful, here is a coverage on this from Beck Diet Solution, which is the cognitive behavioral based therapy approach to eating issues developed by Judith Beck, who's father actually developed CBT.

The other thing that I think about, is in post-op diet, what really IS cheating? I mean with the super wide variation of advice on the post-op diet, those of us who research and see all this variation, you realize that there is a WIDE definition of what is considered ok during the immediate post-op diet phase. My single surgeon and his plan is not the definitive be-all end-all of advice. I don't take one person's plan and advice as my absolute truth. If there were a gold standard out there, or if all of their advice was remarkably similar, then I'd say the choices i've made since surgery that deviated from my doc's handout would be something to think more about why I've made other choices.

Example there -- the Cornell VSG post op guidelines say we can have oatmeal, grits, farina. My doc's guidelines say no. Am I cheating if I have thinned oatmeal?

All very interesting.

I *think* the original post was targeted at folks that are blatantly doing really major things that are not good for them in the post-op phase, which I support, but where is the line? This really triggered me to do a lot of thinking! Thanks!

I agree that the post seemed to be targeted to newly post-op folks. I have seen several posts lately, and I am pretty new to the board . And, I haven't heard of any bariatric surgeons directing patients that they can never eat a food again. So, the posts about popcorn, burgers, chips, whatever in the week or two after surgery are doubly disturbing because no one has ever said these foods are forever off limits. I just think maybe some people could have done more work on compulsions pre-operatively. This is not their fault, IMO, but perhaps they needed more pre-op preparation.

One things that really boggles my mind is that people are having this surgery and then saying they cannot tolerate Protein supplements after they are already into the process. I couldn't get a letter of recommendation from the nutritionist until I had not only bought Protein supplements, but had actually tried them. I really feel that some people are not being prepared. And that hurts me because we have all had enough hardship already, leading up to this surgery.

I also agree that the variety of post-surgical dietary instructions is mind-boggling, and the same goes for the pre-surgical requirements. I still believe that we should go with the requirements of our surgeon, as he or she is who we will ultimately answer to, and complain about, if things go wrong. We select a surgeon for various reasons, maybe a PCP recommendation, or because of feedback on a forum or an internet search, and at the end of it all, we have to look that surgeon in the face if things go wrong. If my surgeon says "no oatmeal", I am not going to go against him just because I find information on the internet to the contrary. I signed up for his expertise and success rate, I am going to play by his rules.

You mention forgetting to take a dose of medicine, and is that cheating? No, because that is likely unintentional ommission rather than avoidance. I would compare eating chips, burgers or pizza the week after surgery to consciously taking two doses of medicine, because it feels good. And if the doctor gave a dosing chart that was disobeyed, then yes, that would be cheating.

I'm not saying I have never cheated. Taking an extra bite or two, I would not call cheating. Eating something and not counting the Weight Watchers points at all because I was ashamed, or I blew it, was cheating (and yes I sure did that).

I also like thinking as well, so thanks to you too!

[Pookeyism 1,143]

I haven't read all of the posts - and again if someone has mentioned this my apologies.

Eating foods too soon can have another serious issue - ulcers. True many ulcers are from viral causes, but you can get an ulcer from a piece of foodstuff caught in the line of your staples, it erodes and you have an ulcer, or perhaos an infection, and even a leak - you don't have to burst your seams to develop a leak...