Our Food Choices, Habits And Our Legacy...

[Pookeyism 1,143]

I am NOT judging, but I do have a very sincere concern. I would like to start with please "No defensive answers". I am not aiming it at anyone in particular, and have had the conversations that I am referencing across this and other forums, in person, etc.

With that said: I see blogs, videos, forum posts, etc that people discuss that they can still have sweets, or fast food is tolerated by their sleeve, or they can drink, etc...but why? We know that the VGS is unique among bariatric surgeries used for WLS, and that there is mounting evidence that you can literally change you eating patterns - your prefernces, you head hunger, your mood-association for food, and there is no dispute that (even thought somewhat not totally understood) it alters not just your hunger, but it alters your body's need for calories, how they are used and applied.

With all of this, why go back to the foods that were no good for you to begin with, are inargueably full of the bad fats, the hormones and antibiotic and cruel (horribly cruel, in ways that everyone I know once they ((if they)) let me show them do not eat the mass produced meats afterwards), inhumanely processed foods?

You need so little food now, healthy choices are abound, and if you shop locally absolutely no more expensive. You do have time, I bet you do. If I told you you needed to find 30 minutes a day to do something in addition to the exercize that would make your weight loss better, your health better, your body less exposed to bad fats, hormones, antibiotics, meat that was raised in poor health and inhumane conditions, would you? Look at your kids, your husband, etc... if you give back into fast foods, what could you be contributing to their habits, their lifestyles later on? Right now?

Again I do not mean to judge, I was really big. It took years to totally get off of fast foods, and I still cannot get my Husband off of them - we are actually in the largest ongoing "issue" we have ever had, in 10 years of mairrage and 13 years of relationship - I will not allow him to eat fast food while he is with me, or bring it into the home. Flat -pffft dont argue - It was super hard to do, but as my waist is shrinking his is expanding, but it had been for years - I can't make him do it all the time, but he will not do it around me.

In 2003-2005 I was the biggest I ever was. So large that I stopped getting on the scales at 298 lbs, and I know I was heavier for a while after that. I began to make some choices that over the next six years or so would drop my weight to 272 lbs in 2011. Not alot of weight to loose if you break 40lbs into 5-6 years, until you understand this period there was no yo-yo to speak of. These are permanent choices that led to sustained weight loss. No or extremely little fast food, avoidance of fried food, no regular soda. Increased acivity and mucsle building. No mayonaise, etc. That 40 lbs or so, however, can be the difference in goal in many of my fellow sleevers, and maintenance afterwards. I have only been sleeved 2 weeks, so I cannot say how I will progress, but I know where I have been.

I think I am reflecting what I want of myself as I progress back into real foods, I am 2 weeks out and thinking a bit about it. I want each and every person I see here that struggled with the insurance companies, that saved and scrunched a budget, that are making payments or gave up a lot of savings - then went throught the emotions and excitement and concern and stalls and successes and absolutely every damn up and down we have - I want us all to have as much success as we can. I want our legacy to not end at our hips.

We are entering a phase with the Sleeve as a recognized weight loss tool, to date the best tool, that when they do the research they need to see real changes, sustained weight loss, personal accountability that leans to better food choices, efficacy for true lifelong results and influincing others. This will be so important in helping the health insurance companies decide to cover the surgery, the mainstream in acknowledging that surgery for many is the only resolution, the mental health community in developing new programs and ways of communicationg with us pre and post surgery.

We see a trend, still, to regain a portion of the weight, or only loose so much. I have read alot of blogs, and read alot of data, and I think it has alot to do with the post diet choices for foods, and the lack of creating a new routine with a more active lifestyle. Again not preaching, I swear! I am saying the healthier diets and people who literally changed their preferences of foods, etc. do generally see better results.

I do suspect there are those of us that the surgery helps, and then also have undetected issues such as food alergies or metabolic conditions that could lose alot more, and aleviate more conditons if they were extremely careful with their food choices, only introduced one new food at a time, over a several day period, and kept a journal with what, when, etc...Since no one knows for sure who that will be or if that will be them, I think it is a good idea for everyone to start that way - no doctor has told me that, my opinion.

I don't have a good summation for what I am trying to say, which does bother me. The best that I can come up with that is this is a gift. We are some of the very few in the first time in the history of this epidemic that have had the opportunity to partake in a weight loss solution - a real solution. We are pioneers in a starship that are taking the leap past the Event Horizon, we are literally a new type of person, and how we react to the opportunity given will in part provide the feedback that doctors will use to help figure out why it is so successful for years to come. They will develop better supplements, better control of co-morbid conditions, and so much more based on information they gather about us. There will always be enough people who didnt follow the suggesions, retained poor habits, but what we need is as many of us as possible to look beyond this as a step, this is your journey, yes. But this is not your beginning or end, it is your Book of Days. It is our society's Book of Motion, of change. We can affect the way society sees obesity and WLS based off our actions - not results - post surgery. When we hear of a WLS patient that went back to fast food and such because they can still have it and just not be fat - that reinforces a sterotype of obese people. It shows no lack of control, and it does, really truly does, make the VGS and other surgeries seem like an easy way out. It is easy to do something exremely hard for awhile, as long as you know there is an end, so that as an arguement does not suffice if we give back into bad habits.

In a way I think I am talking to myself here - a pep talk for me in the months and years to come. I did want to get it out, and off my chest. I hope somewhere I inspired just one more person, in even just one small way, somehow.

[Steve Demko 8]

Well said I couldnt agree more!

[Pookeyism 1,143]

Well said I couldnt agree more!

Thank you. I do not wan to come off like I am preaching, I just felt a need to say it.

[reallyrosy 161]

I hear ya. I dunno if I can follow what you are advocating because once you come back to real food (after a month or so) the temptations are enormous. I may not have the ghrelin to cause hunger, but I have the impetus to hurry up and eat so I can get to whatever. My life changed big time recently: retired, developed a fib, started working out with prsonal trainer since may. Am now 5 to 6 times bper week and just fired up the old proforma treadmill (10 yrs old and used maybe 5 times!). Yet I was tossing my Cookies before for eating turkey pastrami (low fat) and haven't been able to keep anything down all day since then.

Its great to have determination and will but we're humans, too, and subject to frailities. I wish I had your confidence but at 66 I've been on almost every wl scheme and even kept off 128# loss over 5 years but still I came for vsg at 308#. And still I remember saying for each time I lost wt and bought new clothes tc: I worked too hard to get where I am. I'll never go back to that. And each time, I did.

Yep, even vegetarian diets, south b*tch diet, wwatchers, fasting, Soup diet, tops, overeaters anonymous, pills, shakes, you name it. Each was a tool, too. No?

I hope you retain your determination and will to succeed way past when the surgery will be a vague memory for you. I hope I do, too. I hope we all reach success and stay there. That'd be the 2012 miracle. I'm going to work with a shrink who has strategies for changing the mindset (lifestyle). I hope with that support I can achieve our shared goals. But hope is all we got!

[Pookeyism 1,143]

I hear ya. I dunno if I can follow what you are advocating because once you come back to real food (after a month or so) the temptations are enormous. I may not have the ghrelin to cause hunger, but I have the impetus to hurry up and eat so I can get to whatever. My life changed big time recently: retired, developed a fib, started working out with prsonal trainer since may. Am now 5 to 6 times bper week and just fired up the old proforma treadmill (10 yrs old and used maybe 5 times!). Yet I was tossing my Cookies before for eating turkey pastrami (low fat) and haven't been able to keep anything down all day since then.

Its great to have determination and will but we're humans, too, and subject to frailities. I wish I had your confidence but at 66 I've been on almost every wl scheme and even kept off 128# loss over 5 years but still I came for vsg at 308#. And still I remember saying for each time I lost wt and bought new clothes tc: I worked too hard to get where I am. I'll never go back to that. And each time, I did.

Yep, even vegetarian diets, south b*tch diet, wwatchers, fasting, Soup diet, tops, overeaters anonymous, pills, shakes, you name it. Each was a tool, too. No?

I hope you retain your determination and will to succeed way past when the surgery will be a vague memory for you. I hope I do, too. I hope we all reach success and stay there. That'd be the 2012 miracle. I'm going to work with a shrink who has strategies for changing the mindset (lifestyle). I hope with that support I can achieve our shared goals. But hope is all we got!

That is what I was referring to - hope with this sleeve is not all we have. Your stomach is very similar to your brain in rerouting functions, and how it will react with your brain and other organs. This surgery, like no other, actually removes the stomach. It creates a new stomach. There is overwhelming evidence that we can retrain our taste preferences - our actual desires and preferences for food, but we have to persist past the head hunger, past the phose of wanting for the addictive qualities of the bad fats and hormone laced foods and processed sugars. You have an organ that over the next two years or so will reroute acid production, macro and micro nutrient production, will heal, expand a little, and the neurohormonal qualities will be similar to that of a toddler learning and developing food preferences. Trying the good stuff over and over, leaning towards local veggies and meats. Or your own.

I wish us all the absolute best. But when I say it, I mean I hope we all bust our butts to keep this exception rather than the old school rule, and take it for what it is, the very best chance we have.

[NyanBunny56 12]

I dunno but I feel after the sleeve, I just simply remember how good everything used to taste, but if I even smell it or take a small bite of it I can't go on at all, I dunno if it's me only, but I feel like my sleeve changed the way I taste food or what my cravings are for, almost all the foods I used to love taste really gross now, and healthier foods don't irritate me and taste quiet nice, and I don't think I'll be able to crave the food that I used to have before, which scares me because I feel like eventually I'll go back to those habits and foods because I remember that they taste so now, but now, I was in chili's recently with my family and they were all eating so much and they all had the food I used to love, but the smell made me almost puke, maybe it's because I'm just 7 weeks out? But that's not too little.

I'm just scared that this is simply a phase where everything I used to love is just nauseating now and doesn't taste the same at all, anyone else feeling the same?

[reallyrosy 161]

That is what I was referring to - hope with this sleeve is not all we have. Your stomach is very similar to your brain in rerouting functions, and how it will react with your brain and other organs. This surgery, like no other, actually removes the stomach. It creates a new stomach. There is overwhelming evidence that we can retrain our taste preferences - our actual desires and preferences for food, but we have to persist past the head hunger, past the phose of wanting for the addictive qualities of the bad fats and hormone laced foods and processed sugars. You have an organ that over the next two years or so will reroute acid production, macro and micro nutrient production, will heal, expand a little, and the neurohormonal qualities will be similar to that of a toddler learning and developing food preferences. Trying the good stuff over and over, leaning towards local veggies and meats. Or your own.

I wish us all the absolute best. But when I say it, I mean I hope we all bust our butts to keep this exception rather than the old school rule, and take it for what it is, the very best chance we have.

All due respect but I still want to eat rolls and I still think @ the foods I liked...melted cheese on Pasta etc. I don't CRAVE them but I rememhber them and I remember the comfort food brought me...I haven't any dislikes except I used to enjoy spicy cheese but now I take exception and prefer swiss.

I'm hungry much of the time and can distinguish real from head but hve no defenses against the head hunger especially now before actually working with the new shrink and this snowstorm that has me house bound.

I couldn't get away from the stimuli today and living alone didn't help.

I may not succeed at this project, Pookey, but I will feel resentment if you blame me for it. I don't KNOW that I can do it. No amount of anyone telling me I can is making a difference. All *I* have is hope.

[DebiC 181]

Not everyone's tastes change after getting sleeved. For most of us, we would never have gotten as big as we were if it wasn't for mental/emotional/addiction issues. None of that changes just by getting a sleeve.

If food was your "go to" comfort food before, then it will still be. For me it was Pepsi. About 3 weeks after being sleeved I had a crisis and the first thought that came to my mind was "I need a Pepsi". I did not indulge. I agreed to give up soda 100% after I got sleeved and I'm really trying to keep that promise.

Also-food tastes good (I do make healthier choices now). After I finish my 2-3 oz Protein and 1/2 cup vegetables I am full, but it tasted so good I still want more. Of course I don't partake (been there-not fun), but the desire is still there.

What you said is all true-in a perfect world. But unfortunately we are not able to make perfect choices-or we wouldn't have been overweight to begin with.

I personnally bought several books on WLS and the mental/emotional aspects. I also just started going to a therapist who believes that a lot of my food addiction problem stems from the verbal/emotional abuse I have suffered throughout most of my life-so I need to work on that.

But ultimately I think if we don't find a way to figure out the problems that made us so fat, our behavior is not going to really change, and sleeve or no sleeve I don't think we will resolve our weight problems in the long run.

[Indymom 132]

I agree with what you said for the most part, in particular the comments on fast food. I've found that when I've tried a cheeseburger from McD's (for example) in a pinch, it really didn't taste good nor did it settle well in my sleeve. Having to eat at a fast food place is just a reality for me because of the extent I travel for work, but I've started to develop some good choices at those places when in the past I wouldn't have done well at all.

That said, even before I had my surgery we were very "clean" eaters. Very little processed food, minimal sweets (no candy, no sugary Cereal, etc.), lots of good fruits and vegetables, etc. However, one of the biggest reasons I had the sleeve (among many) was the fact that I wouldn't likely have issues with dumping.

Do I eat sweets regularly? Nope, I didn't have much of a taste for them before surgery and still don't post-op. Do I sometimes want a few tortilla chips with my salsa rather than carrot sticks or celery? You bet your ass. Do I steal a handful of my daughter's Cheetos when I let her have a bag occasionally? Yep. I track my food and stay within my calorie/fat/protein guidelines 99% of the time, but every once in a while I do have a little splurge. I've continued to have good consistent weight loss (well, other than the horrific T-giving to Xmas stretch!!) and feel like I'm making very good choices in general.

[reallyrosy 161]

Not everyone's tastes change after getting sleeved. For most of us, we would never have gotten as big as we were if it wasn't for mental/emotional/addiction issues. None of that changes just by getting a sleeve.

...

Also-food tastes good (I do make healthier choices now). After I finish my 2-3 oz Protein and 1/2 cup vegetables I am full, but it tasted so good I still want more.

...

But ultimately I think if we don't find a way to figure out the problems that made us so fat, our behavior is not going to really change, and sleeve or no sleeve I don't think we will resolve our weight problems in the long run.

Thank you for saying what I hoped to convey..only u said it much better than I could...

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

Obesity is such a complex topic, there are alot of forces at work here. We talk about "head hunger" "emotional eating" and all that but we should not discount the genuine chemical/hormonal psiological factors that drive so much of this! We hear alot about grehlin, but there is a whole lot more that drives our appetite/hunger. I am no expert, but I know from my own reading and my own experiences that what we eat can trigger responses - it will trigger what we WANT to eat. Dr Kessler talks about it as the overabundance of highly palatable (not necessarily tastes good, but triggers the eat more feeling) but low nutrition food. Obesity is actually a type of malnutrition!!!

I personally believe that this eating clean idea is the key. Avoiding highly processed foods, avoiding alot of the sugars and simple carbohydrates. Staying away from the stuff that just isn't natural, real nutrition!!! I truely believe that eating a lean Protein and wholesome veggies based diet, with a limited amount of whole grains, with very little else, will help keep a person from over-eating. It will keep your body from going haywire and demanding the junk.

That is so much easier said then done. We are SURROUNDED, knee deep, buried in the types of food that trigger many of us to overeat and/or to eat the very things that are not good for us.

I don't ever try to push the envelope of what my sleeve can "handle" but I feel like I am really really still fighting the battle to not desire crappy food. I don't even like crappy food, but I have spent too much of my life under it's spell, it is not so easy to just make the total break. Lately, my big thing has been dying for nuts. Now, nuts are a healthy food, but for whatever reason, I am not happy with 2-3, I want too many and they go down really easy. I think it is the salt/fat that is triggering that desire.

Anyway, I get your point and I sometimes wonder why people seem to be tring to find the "edge" of what their sleeve lets them do. Maybe it is just the choice of words, maybe people don't really mean that. I am trying to find the other end... trying to find out how I can eventually become one of those people who forget to eat.... lol

I wish I was a more perfect being, but I am not and so I do the best I can and give myself all the kudos I can when I do "pretty good, even if not perfect"

[reallyrosy 161]

Cowgirl Jane...

Who is Dr. Kessler?

[Pookeyism 1,143]

Cowgirl Jane...

Who is Dr. Kessler?

I believe she is referring to Dr. David Kessler who was Commisioner of the FDA under George H. W, Bush and Clinton, and the author of The End of Overeating, among other things.

[reallyrosy 161]

Yep...I downloaded the preview on my nook ....but I will get it from the library ...thanks

[Lissa 2,631]

Pookey, You make some very valid points and have given me some food for thought. I don't agree with everything you said, but I get what you're trying to say to us.

My goal as far as food is to eat like a normal weight person in America eats, but I have already done something very different than the average American by my Protein and Water goals. I do think there is room in a well-balanced diet for the occasional treat. However, I also see that certain foods make me want other foods. When I eat high carb food, it makes me want more high carb food. Your post makes me think that maybe I need to re-think my food goal.

Thank you for posting your thoughts.