Frustrated with my lap_band

[SeattleCindy 0]

Okay so i haven't posted here in a real long time, before i had problems and before I had a second surgery. I need some advice from all of you and hopefully this will cheer me up. I've been really sad lately about my weight loss. Let me explain my history a little bit. I had surgery with dr oh in washington on 1/28/04. After surgery I think i did pretty well losing 40 pounds in the first couple months and dr oh was very happy with me telling me i was keeping up with his bypass patients. After my monthly meetings with him, i got tired of going in every month and taking time off only for him to ask me the same general questions, so after getting another clean bill of health i quit going to my monthly check ups and figured i would go in if i had any problem. Well i did just fine and was planning my december wedding having lost 70 pounds up until december i was pretty happy with my weight loss but had noticed that i had stalled, mainly my fault for not eating the right foods. After the wedding I started getting bad acid reflux. really bad to the point i would wake up choking on it and couldn't get it out of my throat So i made a doctors appointment and he had me do another egd said something like , sounds like you have a slipped band, so i went in and low and behold my band had slipped. He blamed me the whole time said i must have been eating too much and that i needed to follow his rules. Needless to say he scheduled me for surgery at the beginning of april and he fixed my slipped band,... Now it's may 13th and ofcourse i have no restriction so i've been doing this Atkins diet , but i can still eat quite a bit. Im so scared to go get a fill again because even before i was never eating the right things, I could never get a definate answer on what people were eating and my doctor sucks at explaining anything. Also after surgery my doctor came out and told my husband that He hoped the pain from my 2nd surgery would teach me to follow his rules. Needless to say i have refused to see him since and have found myself a very nice new doctor who is more than happy to take care of me. I guess before i go get another fill, I want to know if maybe I am the problem. SOmetimes i think i sabotage myself. I want to get a fill but im scared since i think my fills last time were too tight and that is why my band slipped. so those of you who are successful can you please tell me what you eat on a normal day for each meal and how much? I know everyone is different but i worry too much about trying to count everything and i get so frustrated that i just end up cheating so im trying to make a better game plan for the next time. Thank you sorry for the long drawn out email

Sad Cindy

340 / 260

[donali 57]

Hi Cindy -

Wow, it really sounds as though you have been through an ordeal. Congrats on your marriage, and losing 70 pounds!!! Whooo hooo!

Can I ask you - were you vomiting a lot before your band slipped? Usually that seems to be the main culprit in band slippage. Did you vomit only occasionally, everyday, at all? Did you continue to eat when you were full to the point of pain?

Sorry for all the questions, but I'd like to avoid slippage if at all possible, and NOT vomiting seems to be the main advice and I'm curious if that holds true in your case.

Anyway, you are afraid to get a fill because you think being too tight contributed to your slippage. I would have to agree that is probably the case if you were vomiting a lot because you were too tight to keep things down.

How does your new doc do fills? Does he use fluoro? If you get a fill, and it ends up being too tight, you could have some removed. It sounds as though you know what too tight feels like.

Please, could you give me a little more specifics? Maybe I could give better advice.

[SeattleCindy 0]

hi there, no i would not eat to the point it hurt in fact i noticed i was able to eat a little more and yes i did throw up quite a bit but not the violent type throwing up that my doctor says i would have to do to make my lap-band slip, that is what is so frustrating. I was fine with my fill and then one day it was just like bam i couldn't barely eat anything and when i did it it was like i had no clue when to stop i didn't have a pain, i would just all of a sudden be running for the bathroom. It was not very fun. My new doc doesn't do the fills, i go to a place in another city that does them under fluro. Im just scared because of the previous , it was so sudden. I was filled to 1.5 and still i couldn't not throw up. that is so little compared to everyone else, maybe i didn't need as much or something. Can you tell me since you have been pretty successful what a normal meal day is like for you. Do you get hungry during the day? what do you drink besides Water? i can't drink Water all day i need something with some flavor, is crystal light okay? i really want to get back on track, i haven't lost much since november of last year and i feel like this isn't working for me. im so frustrated i've thought about having the bypass surgery because my band is such a pain. Please help

Cindy

[Alexandra 55]

Cindy, I'm so glad you came here to share your story and ask for information and help. Thank you!

In addition to Donali's questions, I'd like to know if your sense of the band was ever "just right" or if it really caused problems for you all along. And are you a big exerciser? Was there ever a point where you felt, whoops, something is different now inside me?

Now for a little cheerleading: 70 pounds is phenomenal and you should be VERY proud of yourself!! Do you think you could have lost that weight without the band? And, more importantly, would it stay off?

Whenever I get frustrated with the band (which is easy to do, of course) I remember that the 50 or so pounds that have come off me ARE NOT COMING BACK this time. Right there it puts the whole thing in perspective, and the frustration disappears. Tomorrow is another day and it sounds like you have a better doctor this time, so the future looks very bright.

Comparing menus is all well and good, but as you know it is very different for every person. A given quantity of food means nothing--and it could be three meals for one person or half a meal for someone else. More germane to banded people is whether the food is a) nutritious, edible (meaning will it go down), and c) going to keep you satisfied for more than a little while.

I've just scheduled my third fill because, 12 lbs after my last fill three months ago my restriction has all but disappeared. Here's what I eat in a day:

-- 24 oz of milk with Protein powder for Breakfast

-- the insides of a deli sandwich for lunch (with restriction I usually could only eat half of the insides; now I can put away all of it)

--handful of raisins and nuts for a snack

--2 chicken thighs or similar for dinner, with small amounts of salad or veggies

--ice cream (yes, I admit it, I'm a junkie)

Obviously this varies but it's pretty typical. The reason I scheduled a fill is that yesterday at lunch I ate 14 LARGE pieces of sashimi and felt no restriction whatsoever. I'm not concerned about the calories in that lunch, but the fact that it just went down with no obstacle. I NEED that obstacle to be there in order for my weight loss to progress, so that's why I called the doctor.

[donali 57]

First of all, the fact that you have kept your 70 pounds off is a HUGE victory!! Give yourself a lot of credit, girl!! Without your band, I bet you'd be on the way back up.

The bypass in not a guaranteed success, either - my sister had that done, lost almost all of her weight, and after her 2 year "window" of losing opportunity, has since gained most of it back.

So, you were throwing up a lot. As you have found out, you do NOT have to have stomach wrenching vomiting to slip your band. First of all, you must promise yourself that whatever else happens, you will avoid throwing up at all costs. If vomiting comes upon you suddenly, and that is a frequent occurence, then you MUST be willing to get at least a slight unfill.

Comparing fill levels is not helpful, really, because everyone is so very different. Some people don't need fills at all!

It seems as though many people are waaay too tight in my opinion. Since you've already had problems with that, I would start with very conservative fills.

My normal work day eating:

1 quart Water on the way in to work

1-2 very large mugs of hot tea with 1 to 2 tablespoons of half-n-half and artificial sweetner.

After the tea has gone down, 1 cup of lowfat cottage cheese with 1/3 cup of bruschetta sauce mixed in.

Hot tea/water as desired until lunch.

4-6 oz of meat (chicken/steak/porkchop)

Hot tea/water as desired until time to leave work.

1 quart Water on the way home.

dinner is very varied - sometimes I have a big Protein shake blended with a banana, Vitamins, cocoa and ice. Sometimes I have Panda Express 2 item with both Mandarin chicken and eat half the chicken, rice and noodles and save the other half for the next night. Sometimes it's 4-6 oz of some sort of meat. If I go out for dinner, I'll have the salad with bleu cheese dressing, and the meat from my entree, possibly the veggies if there are any, and bread if I can get it down.

Many days get interspersed with sweets/chips if they're available, but I rarely buy them for myself, so it would have to be freebies.

Weekends I usually end up eating only two meals. Maybe a bowl of high Fiber Cereal and soy milk, or two eggs and a piece of buttered toast. Then a meal at a restaurant on Saturdays. Sundays are usually a sausage patty and scrambled eggs, a cookie or two after church, and 4-6 oz of meat for dinner.

I know - I am WAAAAAY low on veggies. I'm working on that, off and on.

[SeattleCindy 0]

you are all so sweet, i appreciate all the help. Well right now i have no restriction so i keep fluctuating. Im trying to stick to this Atkins diet but find it hard with no restriction, i am a total candy junky, i can't stay away from chocolate if it's in front of me. I know how that ice cream deal goes, for months that is what i lived off of becauase i couldn't get anything to go down. Let me explain i went in and had a fill done once to 2.2 cc's. I felt fine for 2 months and was losing a little bit at a time. i mean it wasn't a drastic lot but it was something and that was good enough for me. But ofcourse i started out the morning not being able to eat until almost 11 am because i was so tight in the morning.. Well then one day i took one bite too much of some of my lunch and threw up.. Then from that day on it seemed like i would throw up all the time. I finally went in and had them take me down to 1.5 because one day i got up and couldn't even drink Water,, i went the whole day without anything and was in tears, my husband was so upset with me because he was like god you should be able to eat more than that. needless to say my energy was down i was tired all the time so my husband had started to think i wasn't interested in him anymore because for newlyweds we really didn't have much of a bed life, i couldn't i was just exhausted by the time i got home. Im only 29 years old. did i feel like something in me had changed ? no i didn't .. i felt fine and then bam. i was walking and doing curves yes.. my band was fine in the beginning and like i said i was doing well i thought losing the most weight at the beginning obviously but then i've been stalled since november that is a long long time... and very frustrating. i really want to get on this weight loss kick again, i get so jelous reading about people who have lost 100 pounds in 10 months.. wow i wish that was me... i guess i thought we would be skinny by now and not have to deal with so much. I haven't had any other problems with my band no, other than the slipped band, it wasn't anything i could feel the only way i knew something was wrong was because of the acid reflux i would get in the middle of the night and i was like whoa,, im not supposed to get that because of my band, then i knew i had a problem. i am relieved to have it fixed but scared to mess with it again because of the 2nd surgery. Im lucky my insurance pays 80 percent but still everytime getting billed for a couple grand is no way to start off my marriage. Thank you for telling me what you eat. I need ideas like that. I can never think of anything to really have, my doctor strictly told us to stay away from milk so ... i have been trying to not do that... whether or not it's true i don't know since he was the jerk doctor... how much are you losing a month now?

Cindy

[SeattleCindy 0]

wow donali look at how much you have lost. you guys are so supportive, i used to go over to spotlight health but got tired of being yelled at over there, i really need the support with everything to keep me on track and having such sweet friends like all of you will help me, i hope you don't mind if i write her more often and let you all know how im doing. im going to plan to get a fill here in another 2 weeks. that way i can try to get back on track. i really want to be a loser i want to be a member of the century club too. .

sounds like you eat a lot of liquid type stuff still. you drink a lot of tea, what kind is it? do you watch your sugar count? i just get so confused cause so many people do so many different things, i really don't want to feel like i have to diet, that is what is so frustrating. I know this time i will excersize more. Im going to start walking with my husband every day after work. That will help me a lot too i think. Thank you soooo much for helping me feel better

[Alexandra 55]

Why did your doctor tell you to stay away from milk?!? I count on my morning shake for Protein AND Calcium, and I couldn't get that any other way in the morning. Calcium tablets are too big under any circumstances, for one thing. And the amount of egg or cottage cheese that I MIGHT be able to get down just is not satisfying enough. After sleeping overnight my tummy wants something substantial in it.

My weight loss follows a pattern, it's not at all steady. After my first fill I lost about 10 lbs pretty quickly and then stabilized for two months, at which point it started up again for about another 4 lbs. After my second fill the same thing happened: 10 lbs pretty quickly, and now a 4-week plateau. And now that I've scheduled my next fill, I'll probably lose another couple of pounds before it happens...I think my band knows what's going on and doesn't want to get stuck with a needle!

On an average, then, I'm losing about 4 lbs a month. But what amazes and gratifies me more is that these plateaus are true plateaus--my weight is STABLE instead of RISING. I don't mind taking breaks from the downward slide now, because it doesn't mean an inevitable upward crawl. And THAT'S absolutely revolutionary in my lifelong battle with weight control. For the first time, my weight IS under control, it's been reined in. I often say that if this is all I get out of the band it's more than I could EVER have achieved on my own, and worth every single hoop I have to jump through.

[donali 57]

I really don't do many liquid calories, except for the half-n-half. The Protein shakes for dinner are maybe once or twice a month, if that. All the rest of the calories are real food (and candy, Snacks, etc... )

I don't diet, and some days I eat waaaay more than others, but can almost NEVER eat as much as pre-band.

I do try to get a lot of fluids in, as it helps entertain me and helps keep me from eating when I'm not really hungry. Plus the Water helps flush out the by-products of burned calories.

The tea I have been drinking is regular old Bigelows or Lipton, but as soon as I run out of my sweetner I'm going back to herbal teas. Which I guess means I'll be dropping the half-n-half, too. The herbal teas I drink most often are peppermint, green tea and an herbal red (can't think of the flavor at the moment).

Glad you found your way back here! There's not much yelling on this board, although I tend to yell that people are TOOOOO tight!

Good luck - you can do this!

[SeattleCindy 0]

so much information that all is helpful, thank you guys very much. My doctor told us to stay away from milk because of the sugar that is in milk, i prefer soy milk anymore anyhow, it has a better flavor and i mix that sugar free Syrup like you can get in your coffee in the soy milk and it's like a little milkshare with no sugar it's really good. My doctor really is a moron, he wanted us to follow the bypass rules , no milk, or sugar at all period. I think that's why he blamed me for my band slipping, i still sometimes drink soda, which he insisted that I not do either. I just thought if you can drink it without it hurting how is that bad im getting in some sort of liquid. Im glad i found you two. You girls seem very friendly and very informative, feel free to yell at me when you want when i know i need to be yelled at. I eat sweets sometimes too, i guess what is frustrating to me is that when i go a month or two or say like now where it's been umm 6 months with no weight loss.. argggh that is the hard part... i wouldn't trade the fact that i have lost 70 pounds i just though that after this much time had gone by that i would be losing steadily and not so little. But part of it is my fault, i have to eat right i know. I guess i just never knew what to really eat since my doc was a jerk and never really gave us any of that information.

so if i ate this for example would this be bad

breakfast: bowl of Cereal

lunch : half a sandwich

dinner, chicken, some veggie

snack : sugar free ice cream

would that be okay do you think to follow the band rules? my problem is probably with the Portion Control.

do you think if i start out with 1cc that is too much of a fill for my first fill after surgery or should i start a little lower. I really just don't know.. but at 275.00 a pop i want it to be good.

[donali 57]

It's really hard to guess what fill you should get. Band placement affects the way fills feel, as well, and your new band placement may or may not result in the same feeling you had before.

Hopefully your doc will give you your fill under fluoro, and base your fill amount by how fast the barium travels through the band. In my opinion, that is the safest way. But lots of docs don't use fluoro, and do all their fills "blind."

I would explain your concerns to your fill doc, and then rely on their expertise to help you get a fill that works for you but is not too tight.

If I were you, I would track my calories on www.fitday.com for a few days so you can have an idea of how many calories you're taking in.

I eat 1500-2000 calories a day, and should keep it around 1500 to lose.

Fitday will tell you what your basal metabolism burns based on your height and weight - you can find that under the activities section. You should be able to eat your basal metabolim calorie requirement and lose.

Although not necessarily very quickly, if I am any example.

The thing is, if you're losing, then whatever you're eating is fine. If you're not, time to evaluate your eating/exercize for possible improvements.

Don't drink with your meals!

[Alexandra 55]

Cindy, that menu sounds like a perfectly fine menu for anyone. There's no "bad" about it. Two points, though:

There is NO REASON TO AVOID SUGAR AFTER BANDING. (I'm yelling so your doctor will hear me.) Holy cow, what a horrible piece of advice!! Absent any medical reason, like diabetes, natural sugar in food is a perfectly acceptable part of any diet. The huge amounts that are added to packaged food are NOT what I'm talking about--so stay away from the Count Chocula--but milk and fruit and things like that were made by nature and we can process them just fine if we're healthy.

As for whether your menu is good, ask yourself how long does that bowl of Cereal last you? That half-sandwich at lunch? If you're eating quickly your band is not working for you and you'll probably be hungry in a short time (mentally, anyway). I know a bowl of Cereal was NEVER enough for me for Breakfast preband--twenty minutes later it was like I'd never eaten anything.

So does it stick with you? That's the question. If it does, you're golden. If it doesn't you might want to try to find foods that do. Protein in the morning does a much better job of keeping me full than anything else. I've been known to have fish for Breakfast for that reason. My husband thinks I'm weird.

[bbrecruiter2000 1]

Hi Cindy,

Sorry that your band slipped and you had to have a second operation. That is why post op care and pre op instructions as well as having a good banding surgeon are so important. I know you are reaching out for help and really want to get back on the "band wagon" again, so I will shoot from the hip here!

Stop drinking the soft drinks. Please dont do anything to jeopardize your band.

Get some counseling from a therapist who specializes in eating disorders. Sounds like that would really benefit you.

Try to join a group like Weight Watchers or Overeaters etc. or go to your new docs post op support group meetings. The weekly accountability will get you back on track.

Be careful not to overfill your band. Make sure that you go to someone who really knows how to do a fill/adjustment. I know it cost money to get fills for a lot of folks here, but there is nothing worse than having your band too tight.

It sounds more like you need to work on your eating habits.

A sample of what I eat during the day:

2 cups of coffee

Protein shake in the morning (low carb)

lunch

Scrambled eggs, some lean ham, 1 oz of cheese, tuna, a grilled chicken roll up, turkey chili, Low carb tortilla with ham lettuce Tomato, cucumber. Today I had a Cajun dish at Applebys with grilled shrimp, blackened chicken and a very small piece of Andoille sausage over dirty rice. I ate 2 tb of the rice and polished off the meat, which was about 5 oz total.

dinner is some form of meat, veggies or salad.

Dessert is a Skinny Cow Ice Cream bar, Jello, 1 cup of popcorn or a low carb chocolate bar. I only eat dessert once or twice a week.

My total caloric intake is always less than 1200, but usually closer to 1100 per day. Very very once in a while, I will exceed 1200. This is usually when I go to a party or out to eat for dinner.< /p>

I exercise at least 3 times a week. Two forty minute cardio days and one or two days a week of circuit training. SOmetimes weight lifting with a personal trainer 1x a week. THis has worked for me.

There are days I violate the rules and eat things I shouldnt, but most of the time I am pretty good with my new regimen. I do like tortilla chips very much and have been known to eat those once a week. I take a serving of chips and split it in half if I really want them. I do not deny myself anything. I do not feel deprived. I will admit that sometimes I know that I could eat more than I do. I also get caught up with that one more bite scenario when something taste really good. I sometimes even lose the battle of mind over matter. There are some days I have more restriction than others. I do eat bread ( low carb) , but I have no problem to eat a couple of bites of real bread and butter when I go to a restaurant. I take two bites and I am finished. The craving goes away when I allow myself to have what I want.

So please start from the beginning and try looking at this a different way. What you have done so far is outstanding. You have done better than average with your banding despite the fact you have had some issues and a less than supportive doc. I know you can do this if you focus and set some real tangible goals for yourself.

GOOD luck!!!

Babs in TX

334/219/180

-115 pounds in 10 1/2 months.

[SeattleCindy 0]

thank you for all your good advice, i really admire how well you all have done with the band too. I feel okay about myself today, just i feel sometimes i can't say no to sweets, i really feel like my body craves them so much and i have a hard time saying no, I haven't been drinking very much soda, although i did before my 2nd surgery, i do drink a lot of crystal light though but since it's low in carbs and sugar, i thought that would be an okay deal. I love omelettes, i just rarely have time in the morning in the rush to work to get up and make one, and before when i got a fill i could never eat Breakfast anyhow. i couldn't eat eggs for that matter, let alone bread or anything of any substance, i really think i was overfilled way too tight. I read these posts and what everyone is filled to and when i was at 1.5 i was still too tight, i can't imagine any less would be good because when i go to get a fill i remember the girl saying i can't unfill you to anything less than 1.5 or you might as well have no fill at all. So im just grrrrrr confused. Like i said though, i am going to get back on track and watch what i eat and track my stuff on fitday and make new friends like all of you. You guys are so supportive while at the same time giving me a nice reality kick in the butt, i need that sometimes so i really appreciate it. Do you feel at each meal do you eat about a cup of food? my doc was under the impression that just like the bypass people we were to eat out of a shot glass. Any ideas on portion size? a cup would be a good amount and not stretch my pouch correct?

Thanks guys

Cin

[donali 57]

i remember the girl saying i can't unfill you to anything less than 1.5 or you might as well have no fill at all.

This just BURNS me up - people's fills are so individual, NO ONE can make a statement like that accurrately!! There are people who are tight enough with NO fill.

You can NOT be hung up on the numbers of your fill - as is said regularly on grads and smart bandsters, there are only 3 types of fills - too little, too much, and just right. It doesn't matter what the number of ccs it is - is it too little, too much, or just right? That is the only criteria you can ever go by.

Most people seem to go by 1/2 to 1 cup of food. I don't measure, I don't count, but I guess that's about what I usually eat. Sometimes way more, sometimes less. You need to stop when YOU get the signal to stop. If you are full at 1/2 cup, don't keep eating because others are eating 1 cup. You really have to be in touch with you, and what works for YOU.

It is very important to have a doc that knows and understands the lapband - not someone who transfers RnY rules to all weightloss surgeries. They are NOT the same.