My son went missing at swim lessons R U a Teacher?

[Alexandra 55]

I guess a lot depends on one's own comfort level with the facility, 3loves. My Y has only one unlocked door to the outside and that's manned at all times, so it's highly unlikely any child could get out of the building unattended. This facility has excellent security precautions because in addition to lessons, they actually have a preschool on the premises with children in attendance all day (including mine) and kids are being ferried from place to place within the building all the time. My kids alone in that Y's locker room really wouldn't be a big concern for me.

As for going in the deep end, I'd defer to the experts on that score. They use "bubbles" at our Y: floats that strap to the kids' backs and come in varying sizes. They are only intended as an assist; they don't actually keep the kids afloat. It sure was alarming to me the first time I saw Catie go in the deep end even with one of these things, but her teachers know more about her abilities than I do and I was amazed to see how far she'd progressed.

The instructors certainly don't want any accidents, so I wouldn't be too worried about their pushing kids beyond their limits.

FunnyDuddies, I just saw your comment about teachers asking parents to leave. Our Y lets parents watch lessons but only from the balcony. I can understand why, it's so distracting for young kids if they can see their parents. I know my daughters don't pay ANY attention to their instructors if they know I'm there within their voice distance!

[3loves 0]

Did the kids have on any kind of I.F.D. (instructional floatation device) when she brought them in the deep end?

Nope....my other son wore one in the 3 ft Water. However, all 3 kids held onto the edge and she did take them one at a time. You see, I was there b4 lessons were over and was able to observe the beginning and end. He understands the rules and with me being there the entire time, I can adjust to the deep Water thing.

Funny ~ This is their written policy:

Viewing Classes: All parents are encouraged to watch classes on the pool deck the first and last days of class only. If you are viewing, please remain seated quietly on the bleachers. All parents are encouraged to wait in the lobby area or use other facilities. If your presence or that of a siblings distracts your child, the instructor, or the lifeguard, you may be asked to wait outside the pool area so as to maximize the child's learning process and not interfere with the class.

I was all for this and planned to work out during swim class until yesterday. I will remain in on the bleachers. Just try to pull me away. I can understand the concern of distractions, but this has changed for me. I have a face to face today with the director and she offered to allow me to stay so I'm sure it won't be a problem. I have to say, they took my concern seriously and I commend them for how this has been handled so far.

Alexandra ~ Sounds like you have much better security than our Y offers. There are boys, girls, womens, mens, & family locker rooms and all have doors at the pool and hall end. There are numerous doors for these precious little ones to use. Too many to let them roam.

You all have helped bring up some important thoughts & ideas. Once again, I greatly appreciate all the feedback and experience!!!

[paula 4]

after reading what Funny wrote, I wanted to re-phrase my intentions on my earlier post...

Public lessons I stay and watch, and I think the directors encourage parents to do this (at least they've never discouraged it). There are LOTS of kids in the pool at the same time - even though they are broken into smaller groups. Its safer for the parents to 'watch', you know?

Private lessons (in private pools) are smaller and safer. Usually 2 teachers per 6 kids in the pool - and this is the one where the instructor has asked the parents to leave for the lessons. And I was totally comfortable with it.

Like Alex's experience - MY 3yr old used a 'bubble' for the first week of his lessons.

Does your 5 yr old swim w/o any floats?

After their evaluation, my 5yr old's group went to the deep end (10ft) the first day - the teacher was mid-way out and the child had to swim & meet the teacher, then swim back to the side.

Of coarse the teacher was eager to meet the child if problems arose.

Was this something like you experienced?

[FunnyDuddies 6]

I was my own teacher. My parents gave me Water wings, and threw my in the pool at 3. LOL I chewed holes in the Water wings and gradually learned to paddle and keep myself afloat as the air leaked out. LOL

I do not recommend this to anyone. But it sure worked for me!

[3loves 0]

This evening went much better. B4 we left, I asked the boys where to go after class & they both said the bleachers....YEAH....they got it. I was there anyway waiting on them and didn't leave the area. I have come to the conclusion that I don't like that sour puss teacher anyway. She has only smiled once in the 2 days that I've seen her and she walked right past me tonight, I smiled, and she walked on. What a big snot!! I LOVE my other son's teacher. We have talked a few times and she is very friendly and seems to do a good job with the kids. Oh well, I guess you can't always like the people that teach our children. :phanvan

I didn't get to meet the director face to face tonight b/c her daughter was in the swim meet (they have 2 pools). I will catch up with her sometime. I'm going to drop this with them b/c I am now staying to watch over my kids and I get the impression that this instructor is only filling in b/c they are short on swim instructors.....they is a sign in the locker room trying to recruit them.

Tonight they did go back into the deep end, but had the little floaty things around their waist. It's so much fun watching your kids learn. I want them to swim like sharks, so we will be regulars at the Y. :biggrin1:

Thanks again to all and please share your swimming stories.....I love to hear them.

[CCBSTX 0]

My kids learned to swim at an early age. Mostly lessons, at first, then it was my husband and I. I gave lessons when I was in high school (individual). All of the lessons that my kids took, the parents either participated in or were welcomed to watch. Never, was I restricted from being there.

Just keep on sitting in on the lessons. Be your own lifeguard, you'll feel better for doing so. I know I would!

Before you know it, you'll have terrific swimmers. Keep on bringing them to the pool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shawn

[3loves 0]

:update:

The head swim instructor came and talked to me this evening b4 class to let me know the YMCA is now implementing a new policy for the kids after class. Since they pick up the kids on the bleachers, the teachers will now get out of the pool and escort the students back to the bleachers. They will not be allowed to go anyway except the bleachers until their parents come to get them.

She said this type of thing has never happened b4 and I was right that my son could have been at the bottom of the pool when know one knew where he was for that short period of time. I told her this is what they do at preschools and such & she definitely agreed.....she is also a mommy of 5 kids. She was really warm and friendly and has been from the start.

After we talked, she stood up and announced the new policy to the parents so everyone knows what to expect. I am so thankful this policy has been officially changed as it could save a precious little life.

In addition to this, I finally got my son's teacher to talk to me. She even smiled. I walked past her sitting in a chair and commented that I was glad we weren't late. She said we had plenty of time and asked if Bobby was ready. She also spoke to me again when she brought the kids down to the 10 ft Water. I hope she's warming up, but I've got my eyes on my kids. Maybe after a few more pounds, I will join my boys is the open pool. :tea:

Overall, things are now going really well and I see progress each time with my boys. I'm so proud of them. :biggrin1: Sorry if that's too much bragging, they are just too cute.

[princess_n_thep 2]

Did the kids have on any kind of I.F.D. (instructional floatation device) when she brought them in the deep end?

As a waterfront and aquatics director for summer camps for 4 years, a lifeguard for 15, CPR and FA instructor for 10 years and a Water safety and swim instructor for 15 years.... if they are putting on ANY type of flotation device at any time, take them out of this program. And if they are putting on arm floaties, RUN don't walk out of that program!! All kids, babies included, should work directly with the instructors in deep end activities and if they are below 8 years old or in a level 1 or 2 should always have a private lifeguard during instruction. This is per American Red Cross standards.

3loves- I commend you for taking a stand on the error. I indeed feel as if you should follow up on this and make sure that corrections are made.

Here is my take on what happened. Yes, very scarey indeed. To me, it sounds as if the instructor is not organized, needs more refresher training and has dropped her safety control measures.

There is an organization system for younger children that MUST be in place. For example, on my level 1 and level 2 beginners, we have a large carpet mat in the shade. (after each lesson during break we hang the mat over the fence in the sun to dry) We have buddies, any time we enter or exit, they must hold the hand up of their buddy. Once the lessons are over, I count the kids and do the dry land buddy check. I then scan the pool area for additional kids, whether they are in my group or not. My group then grabs their towels and sits with their buddies on the mat. I stay between the mat and the pool at ALL times. Even if parents come to talk to me, I politely tell them that I would be happy to speak with them once all of the children have been picked up by parents. I will not allow parents to "honk" for kids. I will not allow parents to just go up to the fence and yell for them. They must come in and claim their child with me. If they don't like this, then they go somewhere else for their lessons. Albeit I am VERY good at what I do and I have only lost 2 parents leaving my group due to being lazy in all my years of teaching swim lessons.

On another note, i would like to share an experience that hopefully will affect and persuade others to keep Water safety with their children.....

I have personally given breaths and pushed on the chest of a child that wandered away from a parent at the beach and went to play in the waves. It was unknown how long he had been there, but I found him face down in the sand at the waterbreak line a few hundred feet from where his family were relaxing. It was years ago and I was actually on my own pleasure trip and not lifeguarding, but I still remember the vivid feelings and sensations of having this mother over the top of me screaming "oh my god, don't let him die, save my baby" over and over again. I remember the stinging of the water in my eyes and trying to concentrate on the breath/compression ratio. I remember droplets of water coming off of her hair and clothing hitting me in the back. I remember the heavy breathing and sobbing of the mother behind me. I remember the taste of the sand granuals in my own mouth. I remember the color of the blue on his lips. I remember his long eyelashes and remember thinking "my what beautiful long eyelashes". I remember the pop of the sternum bone upon the compression. I remember the squishy pillow like feel of compressions after that. I remember his sand and water blonde hair slicked back. I remember the lifeguard coming up and tears on his face and telling me to back away and I remember yelling at him to "get the fuck out of here" (he was maybe 16 years old). I remember my water wrinkled fingers giving me a nails on the chalkboard feeling when I touched his skin with my hands. I remember all of the people around me taking deep breaths and gasping while whispering to each other "do you think he will die" and "i hope he makes it". At least once a year I have the memory dream and I wake up with a chest ache and my muscles sore. The child was transported to the hospital but never regained consciousness. He had no brain activity.

If just one of these memories that I have shared with you has hit home then the haunting of this experience has meaning. Just by the professions I chose to do, I live with memories and images that some never experience. But if I can affect and change someone else's life by going through what I see and do, then I keep going. I only share with you so that I can create a point and educate others.

WATCH YOUR CHILDREN AROUND WATER!!!! A human can drown in 2 Tablespoons of water. Do you remember a time when you have "drank the wrong way" or it "went down the wrong pipe"??? Actually, that is a form of water inhalation and could cause a choking. The cause of death would not be choking it would be a drowning.

One more thing, since I am on a roll.... those "child chain bracelets" that you see some parents doing at major theme parks or malls. Some refer to them as "pet leashes" being snide. I personally love to see a parent using a tool in major populated places. Don't ever make fun or point and laugh at those parents. They know where their kids are, what they are doing, and that they will be going home with them. To those that make fun of them, I always wonder.... where are their kids? And have they ever lost one?

[3loves 0]

Oh Jenna, I have tears rolling down my cheeks. I can't imagine the horror for that mother & family as well as yourself. You have shared my deepest fear. We have a beach close to us and I refuse to take my kids w/o my DH b/c I can only watch one at a time in that type of Water.

When we were smaller, we were members of a lake club and frequently went swimming with mom watching over us. There was a lifeguard, but she trusted her instincts and watched all us kids. Well, my little bro FELL off the high dive (still don't know how it happened b/c he was experienced and had done it many times) but he bounced off the deck and my mom was in the Water and had gotten to him b4 the lifeguard KNEW what was going on. She was too busy talking to a friend. Lifeguards are not perfect, but their mistakes are NOT going to cause the life of my child b/c I will be there watching diligently as my mother did.

I will definitely be following up on the Y thing as I will be there EVERY time watching my own kids. I'm still in shock that it took a phone call from me to change this policy. Unfortunately, I have no other options for lessons and they do use the floaties. You have prompted me to do more research on the subject and perhaps another change is in order for our YMCA. One thing I can say for them, a mistake was made and they acted upon it for the good and safety of the children. I give credit for that. This has been an eye opening experience to not be so trusting where water is concerned.

I only share with you so that I can create a point and educate others.

Thank you for this and perhaps a life will be saved from your terrible experience.

[princess_n_thep 2]

A Y is an American Red Cross sanctioned swimming program. Therefore they are NOT complying with American Red Cross swimming program. You may want to check into that. Plus, Y's are notorious for using expired or out of date instructors. The pool is required to keep certifications AT the site for inspection of any patron or inspector. I would ask to see them. I bet you it takes them awhile if they get back to you at all.

Here is why.... Floaties give children a false sense of security. The entire purpose to swim is to survive in the Water. Later, when you master the skill you can swim for fun or exercise. But the main purpose is survival. Children need to learn how to get out of the situation that they have gotten themselves into with the best of their ability. By using floaties, this shows them to not try as hard and to their full capability. Swim Aids like life vests, removable swimsuit pads, etc are just TOOLS (like the band is a tool). This does not include "instructional tools" such as kickboards, rings, noodles IF they are used properly for instruction rather than play.

ARM floaties are a lazy lazy lazy no no no!! If any of you do this you are not helping your child at all and possibly putting them at risk. Not only does it hinder proper swimming techniques but it also can potentially be a drowning factor. I have seen this MANY times. I quickly outlawed arm rings in any pool I was in charge of. This pissed off many parents that wanted to use them, but I don't care. I explained my reasons, and it possibly saved their life that day because I wouldn't let them in the pool or lake with it on. When a child has arm floaties on, they tend to tire faster. Because of the bulk they have to work harder rather than learning to glide and use their arms as paddles. It restricts rotational shoulder movement. Therefore once they get so tired, if they are in an area that they can not touch the bottom, the arms will go straight up (because they had to work at keeping their arms down) and their head will go under. They will panic, bob a few times, take in Water and then they are officially a distressed swimmer and possibly a drowning victim. Moral of the story: NO ARM FLOATIES!! (they are $1 for a reason!)

[FunnyDuddies 6]

Rob saved a child from drowning on Mother's day. a 6 year old girl was in the Water at the beach with her brothers. Both were older, an trying to walk out to the sand bar. They could make it through the dip before the sand bar. The 6 year old girl couldn't. he noticed her during her last flailing attempts for attention an the last time she went under. All I knew at the time was my husband just jumped out of his chair and went running into the Water at full speed and drug what looked I thought at the time looked like a wet shirt out of the water. He threw her over his back and ran back to shore. He laid her down, and I ran over. We laid her on her side and patted her hard on the back a few times to see if she neeed CPR or if she could just cough it out on her own. She threw up and starte coughing. About this time her brothers came up to the beach and wanted to know what happened. I asked where the mother was an they pointed her out. I walked over and the woman was asleep!! I woke her up and explaine what happened. She sat there with her daughter in her arms curled up for a good hour after that. The woman almost lost her daughter on Mother's day because her tan and her music in her IPOD were more important.

Thank go she did not die. I have been a life guard. I have seen 2 people die from pool related accidents. It is not fun, and I am so glad to hear that you are taking a stand on being able to sit and watch your kids. I know i would fight them if they told me I could not be there to watch and be sure that things went alright.

[3loves 0]

Jenna ~ They do not use ARM floaties, it's the kind that goes around their waist. Here's what they look like and they are very loose. Are these bad too? Should I be concerned that they use these frequently? They certainly don't swim yet however, both of my boys are showing progress after only 3 lessons. I appreciate your feedback and anyone else with thoughts/experience to share.

Funny ~ I bet that mom has changed her ways. I'm sure a near drowning is enough to cause anyone to make life changes.....I sure hope she did. So sad the hear you've have witnessed the loss of life b/c of Water. I'm sure it is just heartbreaking. I hope I never have to experience it whether it be mine or someone else's.

[princess_n_thep 2]

I would be concerned, yes. Not only are they using the WAY wrong instructional tool, but they are loose fitting and could either slip off, or turn. Those floaties are certainly letting them enjoy Water and they are acclimating them to being in water. If that is what you want, then this is fine. Sometimes it is necessary if children are freaked or scared of the water. But if they are at a point that they are comfortable being IN water, then no, this is not a good idea. If they love the water and are comfy being in/near water then they need to be swimming, plain and simple. I have seen a 2 year old swim like a fish! I have also seen a 50 year old deathly afraid of letting go of my neck! It all depends on the child I guess. But if they are comfy with water, they should be doing survival water techniques and beginning to swim.

Your boys are progressing yes, but may not be properly. Just the exposure to water will show progress in most cases. Honestly want my opinion? Since the Y is your only option and this is how they do it....Do it yourself.

[princess_n_thep 2]

Just out of pure curiosity... Any more pics of the lessons and the kids doing tasks?

[3loves 0]

Actually, my boys have always loved the Water and we bought a 10'x3' pool last year. They were in it all summer last year and some this year. My youngest has shown some fear. He makes a V when they try to get him to float....front or back. He just turned 4. He has even done this at home. I guess he's fearful of losing control for some reason.

I want to thank you for prompting me to become more aware of the training. I now have a call into the Red Cross to discuss some of this issues you have brought to light.....very much appreciated!! :biggrin1:

Here are some more pics.....