Did God make you rich?

[leatha_g 4]

They do NOTHING in the trailer park area. In fact there was a person living in the trailer park who was mad about this, went a few roads down, pulled up some of the placards and stuck them in the ground near the trailer park entrance, and the next morning they had been removed.

Point being - they actively solicit attendants from our neighborhoods, and actively discourage the trailer park residents. If it was about the faith, the coming-together, mankind - whatever... why would someone's income or living standards matter?

(BTW, I have no idea if this is common practice or not, but that same church gives you a "Tithing Booklet" when you join, full of "coupons" (think of the books you get for car/mortgage payments), with a pre-printed tithing amount based on financial information you have to provide when you join the church. So once again - what is it supposed to be about, and what is it reallyabout?)

That's a very sad testimony for that church. Very sad indeed. Thank GOD that all churches and believers are not poured from this mold.

[cashley 0]

I'm still thinking and thinking about this and just can't believe that people believe that god makes them rich.... it's very very sad!

To every person from every chruch that wouldn't imply that when you know there are people in the congregation that have cancer, or sickness or all kinds of problems... If god rewards one person with riches then are they also saying that god is punshing those with disease?

Uggg! This is hard to get my head around. I'm also catholic and I just think that god wants us to do good and right but that doesn't mean we'll live a charmed life here are earth.... but I do believe we'll be rewarded in heaven!

[FunnyDuddies 6]

I too believe that God does not reward. He provides, but he does not reward. And I believe that he provides to meet his needs, not just yours. Through God, a believer will always have the basics. Whether it is a the strength to find a good job, caring friends to help you succeed, and caretakers when you cannot take care of yourself. But I believe that when God provides you with great wealth, He expects you to do with that wealth what His will is. We are all kinda like God's personal money managers if you think about it. But I also think that if God provides you with the strength and will to go out and get a really good education, and a really good job, and you work really hard at it and make a lot of money, that you are blessed, but it was not a reward from God. It is the fruit of your labor. This is a very complicated issue isn't it? Now I beleive that God does not take of those who refuse to take care of themselves. Why should he? If you can't make the effort to love yourself enough to take care of you and yours, how successful are you going to be in taking care of those less fortunate, if there are any. That is why I do not believe in blind charity.

As for explaining the sadness in the world, I believe that as tragic as the moment may be, there is always something to be shown through each event in life. My daughter died in birth and was revived, and had a paralyzed arm that will never be like the other. I don't view this as a tragedy. I believe that it happened to teach her father and I how special she was, and her arm will help her learn to be strong and overcome so that she can accomplish something difficult in the future. I had some tragic things happen to me in my life when I was younger, things that most would wish had never happen to them. But as hard as it has been trying to get over these events, I would not trade them for anything because they taught me and helped me grow in my faith and personality. But I do not profess to know the mind of God. He has his reasons for everything. And, as always, why do we blame God for ALL tragedies in life? I do believe that there are evil forces at work in this world that can manipulate and change the course of events to better their situations.

[FunnyDuddies 6]

Wheetsin that is awful. Truly sad that you have witnessed this. Not only that they are acting in this way, but look at the sour taste it has left in your mouth toward your feeling of organized religon? It feeds a stereotype that is sad and disgusting. The church that Rob and I call our "home church" has folk from all backgrounds, all wealths, all nationalities. The only thing they ask when you come in for the first time is if you would like someone to show you around. LOL No one judges anyone. They are just happy to see you. There is literally no gossip among the church ladies (my father very embarassingly found this out by making a total fool of himself when we were preparing for our wedding). It is your typical, all american, clean living independant baptist church and school. I could never imagine them placing trinkets on people's doors, or passing out flyers and signs. Or actively discourage any particular group of people from coming in.

[Morsaille 4]

Firstly, I couldn't agree more with Alexandra. Marketing. Plus, it easily justifies the golden sets of the televangelists. Isn't it wonderful to send them money knowing God trusts them to do good with it. All the while they feel justified in keeping most of it because God rewards the faithful.

If anyone thinks that "GOD REWARDS GOOD" (weather it is riches or a good life) then what do you say to people who have tragedy?

I mean a family who loses a child, a person in a natural disaster, your neightbor who's house burns down...

I think that faith is it's own reward. If I ever lost my Soren I would know that she was here to teach me about the power of Love. That she had done her job so well and so quickly that her soul couldn't wait for another assignment. That my task was to show her gift to others and to be thankful for the time we had. Easier said than done, right?

In a natural disaster there are limitless lessons. If you were the person who ignored the warnings, the one who doubted the power of God, or the person who doubted the goodness of others, a hardship can be the classroom in which we discover the best and worst in ourselves. That is the gift.

[FunnyDuddies 6]

beautifully put Brenda. you took what i said and made it understandable LOL

[GeezerSue 7]

As an atheist, I always feel somewhat 'invited out' of these discussions, but here I go...

1--what Alexandra said about marketing; and,

2--when a minister points out a family that has material wealth as a family others might want to emulate...it tells me a lot about what is really important to the minister.

[Morsaille 4]

I was so busy putting it together I missed your post, Great Minds... right Amy?

[FunnyDuddies 6]

I think it is a sentiment that bears repeating Brenda. And Geezer, I agree. It was the last time we went to that church. We don't want people looking at our bank book so they can determine who to "shop" us to as new attendees.

[PhotoNut 7]

Cashley - Remember the story of Job? God allowed Satan to tempt Job into turning his back on God. Satan wiped out all of Job's family, his possessions and finally his own health. Job's friends would come to visit and tell him to pray to God and ask forgiveness for sinning, for surely he must be receiving God's punishment for being wicked. But Job refused. He knew he had been a faithful servant. He didn't curse God for allowing or causing the losses in his life and eventually God replaced all Job had threefold.

So you are correct. God does not pushish, nor does he reward. He teaches us in His word how to live so that we might have peace beyond all understanding when the bad times fall upon us.

Riches can easily become our God, so I do not look at riches as a reward. In fact, I see riches as distractions for many of us. We are driven to have more, and once we get more we worry over losing it. With all that attention on possessions that will not go with us when we die, how can we be focused on God's will in our lives now? Fame and fortune often breed greed, lust, and vanity. But there are some who are not affected by it and can keep a level head about what the real values in life are, probably not many.

TV evangelists constantly focus on money. Robert Schuller for example preaches the rewards of postive thinking.. often suggesting those rewards to be financial. I was in Amway for 8 years in North Carolina and came to the Lord during a Sunday morning service led by one of Amway's biggest celebrities. The entire sermon was about wealth. The church I attended for years here in Boise became so materialistic I had to leave. The richest couples were praised and held up as Funny described. Even though most of them ended up in divorce!!

I'm just rambling now. Sorry. This topic really bothers me. I don't want to judge others though. I've realized that my own life is full of sins. I have no business pointing out the sins of others.

To sum up my feelings about God and rewards. Our only reward is to live with God in eternity. Things here are merely distractions that will be left behind and of no value when we die. Run the good race, and keep your eyes on the true goal. Easy to say, but so often hard to do.

[SuperDaddy! 1]

The idea of "prosperity gospel" has been tied into many big churches and TV programs for many years and it is a MAN-MADE belief, not a GOD-BREATHED idea from the scripture. You need only to look at Christ's example and words to see that worldly riches are meaningless. Christ walked the earth with very little more than the clothes on his back. God DOES REWARD PEOPLE with riches that are not of this earth, however. Just as clearly as the Bible teaches against greed/money and "idol worship" of material things (did you know that the Bible teaches about money more than any other subject...including love?), the Bible is very clear about telling us to "store up our treasures in heaven". The reward is great to the faithful in heaven. No...that does not believe that you earn salvation...but the Bible speaks of reward and station to faithful men and women.

The problem is....the church is made up of a bunch of messed up sinners just like every other institution. We have good intentions but we are humans with selfish flaws that cloud the vision God intended. I receive the little tithing envelopes from my church that Wheatsin mentioned, but it is only for organization and tax recording for me. I am not commanded to tithe by my church...I'M COMMANDED BY GOD TO GIVE BACK TO HIM A TITHE. It's my challenge from him to trust God to provide...and so I am to give with a cheerful heart. To whom much is given, much is required- that's a scripture quote (I do not have time to reference it right now), so thoes with much to share have a great challenge to do so. Somebody must support the local church and it's ministry, and it should be the believers who are attending the church. They receive no income or state funding. I'm sorry that your local church has witnessed to you in such a negative way, Wheatsin. PLEASE DO NOT USE THAT ONE NEGATIVE EXAMPLE TO DETERMINE THE VALUE OF CHURCHES AS A WHOLE. That's a plea to all of you! Just as you cannot discriminate against a whole race because of a few misguided people, the same is true for the body of church.

Here's the truth...I would love to be finanacially whole and strong forever. Compared to 90% of the world's population, my income in America is tremendous. The average family in Uganda currently lives on $1 a day...and here I'm complaining that it costs me $9 to wash by new car! I'd rather have much than little...but that does not and will never determine MY VALUE. I'm a sinner saved only by God's grace. It's not something that I earned or could ever deserve. Jesus Christ's gift of salvation and sacrifice is the only thing that makes me truly RICH! Watching my daughter pray to Jesus and invite him to be a part of her life....now that was the moment that I stood in awe of how untouchably wealthy I already am, and how meaningless worldly pursuits are.

God DOES make you rich....but it has NOTHING to do with cars, houses, or bank accounts. If Christ is your saviour, and you've allowed his love and forgiveness to envelope you...then great is your reward!

Some day I wish for him to look at me, a messed up sinner, and say "Well done, good and faithful servant".

God Bless you all, LBT. May God pursue you with a passion and make his presence in your life abundant.

Jon

[leatha_g 4]

God Bless you all, LBT. May God pursue you with a passion and make his presence in your life abundant.

Jon

Amen! I think that's the best post I've seen on LBT in the 3 years I've been on it.

[3loves 0]

Wow...I never expected to come to LBT today and find myself researching my bible. I love it!! It shows the power of God and the impact He has in all our lives whether your profess to know Him or not.

There is a world of difference between the Old and New Testament. There are just too many things supported in OT scripture that I think were set aside by Jesus. (One could certainly make a good case for polygamy using the OT). I would like to see a NT scripture where JESUS indicated monetary wealth was important to God. Sure doesn't seem like he rained down riches on the fisherman. Only person who made money off of Christianity in the NT was Judas.

I wished I could say I know the bible as well as you. I have to research and look for some of the answers I know in my heart to be true. We are indeed living in the NT times, but that doesn't mean there aren't truths we can learn from the OT. I don't think the OT, especially the scripture I quoted indicates wealth is important to God. It's what one chooses to do with that wealth. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Matthew was a wealthy man. Read Matthew 19:16-30 (contains a verse quoted several times here). It demonstrates how Jesus asked a rich ruler to sell all he had & follow Him....the ruler wouldn't do it. This also demonstrates that everyone should be treated equally rich/poor mighty/weak. Which does make it very say what Wheetsin experienced.

I too believe that God does not reward. He provides, but he does not reward. And I believe that he provides to meet his needs, not just yours. Through God, a believer will always have the basics. Whether it is a the strength to find a good job, caring friends to help you succeed, and caretakers when you cannot take care of yourself. But I believe that when God provides you with great wealth, He expects you to do with that wealth what His will is. We are all kinda like God's personal money managers if you think about it. But I also think that if God provides you with the strength and will to go out and get a really good education, and a really good job, and you work really hard at it and make a lot of money, that you are blessed, but it was not a reward from God. It is the fruit of your labor. This is a very complicated issue isn't it?

Like Amy says here, it's not whether we are wealthy, but what we do with what he have....the fruit of our labor. In my family, I can honestly say we are not wealthy, but we are blessed. Yes it is complicated and not black & white.

I love the solid fundamental teachings of Dr. James Dobson. I'm sure he lives a comfortable life and enjoys many luxuries I do not. He has worked hard and is reaping the fruit of his labor.....which I'm sure some of which is monetary. Does that mean that he's worked harder than me or my DH? I don't think so. I think it's all part of God's will in your life.

[DevilMayKare 1]

I think it's all part of God's will in your life.

Oh Man--WOULD that God would TAKE ALL MY MONEY and just let me EAT!!

How much of her money do you think Oprah would give to be able to eat whatever she wants? My guess is quite a bit of it. Some days all no doubt.

But I'm probably talking off thread here...

Ah, but how about this... if God makes us "rich" by putting us in a rich country with plenty to eat, perhaps FAT is just his BLESSING that we aren't appreciating properly.

I think we ought to get the church to start preaching that.

:roll:

[Mita 2]

My Answer is Yes ~ God did make me Rich ~ I have Faith in my heart and am blessed with 2 wonderful children and Yes a Ex that I pray for everyday.