Speak up those with leaks & infections!

[girldep 0]

I personally feel like this site should be used by people who have had wls or those seeking information on wls. No offense to anyone who may fall into this category, but I really feel like this is not the place for employees, coordinators, marketing/promotional to use as a platform to "defend" these doctors. Of course they want to defend or promote these docs... It's where they get their bread buttered. I get that. But this is not the place to do it. I seriously doubt that this site will be the sole source of information for any person who is serious about educating themselves about this life changing decision. So. Let people state their opinions, research and draw their own conclusions. If the docs are that great or that bad, the research will reveal such. I don't have a dog in this fight. I was sleeved in Dallas. But this thread has become a snotty tit for tat between some of y'all and the funny thing is y'all keep getting sucked back into it. This thrad is like the slam book that was passed around in middle school.

[BJean 16]

That's great Sandy. If I were trying to decide which doctor to use, this would be an enormous help.

I am glad that you were able to tell us how these things are handled by Dr. Alamanza and the hospital and at the recovery house.

If anyone else has any concerns or questions I am sure you will be happy to provide the answers.

Good job.

[BJean 16]

Since this is an open and fair discussion thread, I also hope that if anyone has had a recent personal experience that they would like to tell us about, good or bad, that too would be greatly appreciated by those of us who have been trying to get at the truth.

[WingRider 1]

BJean, I'm very happy to answer all your questions. Up until this point, I've tried to guess exactly what it is that everyone wanted to know. It seemed to be a question of infection rates, etc. But now that you have asked specific questions, this greatly helps!

To be clear about what the "half way house" is. It is a place where patients go after release from the hospital. This is instead of going to a hotel. Many doctors will have patients arrive the day before surgery, stay at a hotel, then check in to the hospital the next day and depending on which surgery they have, patients will stay in the hospital up to 3 days, and then go to a hotel to spend a little extra time, see the doctor again, and perhaps have some testing done before going home. We provide the same, except instead of using a hotel for the "extra days of recovery", patients are sent to the recovery house. All attendants do wear gloves at both of the facilities and there are boxes of gloves on the walls in all the rooms.

There is air conditioning and fans at the facilities. The weather in Tijuana is mild and sometimes they don?t always turn on the air conditioning. They do ask patients if they are comfortable. Sometimes it can be difficult when some people feel hot and others feel cold. That's the reason for the fans. This way those that are hot can use fans without freezing the others out!

The recovery house is stocked with food. They mostly shop at costco. They provide bottled Water as well. Patients are offered liquids such as broth, Jello and juice. There is food for the companions of the patients to eat as well.

Most staff speak at least some English. All staff understand words such as pain, help, etc. They also understand the phrase, "Speak English" and they know to get someone that is fluent in English. There is ALWAYS someone available that speaks English that a staff member can reach in the event of a language barrier. One of the pluses of this Center is that it is owned by the same people that run it. This means that they have control over who works there. When a doctor uses an independent hospital, they have no control over much of the staff so they cannot guarantee that there will always be someone that speaks English. That's not to say that some of them don't have them, but they are not required to have English speaking staff.

The staff is medically trained. There are nurses, medical assistants and doctors at the facilities. All labor is very reasonable in Mexico. That's one of the reasons prices are lower there. There is no need to hire untrained people. Trained people can be hired for very reasonable wages.

The OR is completely cleaned after each procedure. They have a specific staff just for that. All the medical supplies are clean and much of the supplies are disposable, just like in the U.S. The same standards of sterilization used in the U.S. is also used at the facilities.

Other supplies such as staples, bands and other equipment designed for use in bariatric surgeries is of the same quality as in the U.S. and are from U.S manufacturers. All such materials are purchased from the Mexican distributors of the company's manufactures. That is the law in Mexico. For example, you must purchase Allergan bands from the Mexican Allergan distributor. ALL facilities and surgeons MUST do this. It is the same product, however the price is a bit lower in Mexico than in the States. The same Band that sells for $3000 in the U.S. sells for $1800 in Mexico.

There are certain things that are done to help keep costs lower than most. One is that the hospital is owned by the surgeon and administrator so instead of paying a hospital fee of up to $4000 or more per surgery, the surgeon just pays the over head. The other main cost saver is that Bands, Staples and other materials are purchased in very large quantities, which saves a lot in costs. For instance when they purchase staples they purchase at least $300,000 or more in product at a time. In doing so, the cost per item is MUCH less. Bands are also purchased in large quantities, so that $1800 band can be as much as $500 or more less when purchasing hundreds of them instead of just a dozen.

I cannot speak to how most doctors set their profits. I'm sure it's like anything else. Some charge more for their services, some less. Jerusalem does perform a higher volume which allows them to charge a little bit less in per patient profit. There are other small things that save extra money, such as owning their own shuttle vehicles. A Mexican airport shuttle costs about $130 per person to make a run to and from the San Diego Airport.

I have no problem answering any questions anyone may have. In fact I welcome the opportunity to do so. It's much better than all the assumption and guessing that I see. It's also much easier for me because I have been trying to figure out exactly what questions, people want addressed.

I thank you for your questions! Additionally if anyone would like to call me to engage in a back and forth discussion or more questions, I welcome that as well.

Hello all,

First of all I am a Dr. Almanza patient. I don't post often here, I do read daily though. Perhaps this is my new addiction instead of eating. Who knows.

I just wanted to back up Sandy's post, what she is saying is exactly what I saw/experienced/remember of my surgery 12/29/09. I have had no complications, my PCP here stateside has been happy how everything turned out and my weightloss is rocking along. See my ticker below. The house is nice, the people there are very accomodating and thoughtful. I was not at the new Jerusalem Hospital so I can't speak of it, but I am sure it is very nice.

Dr. Almanza spent almost 4 hours on my surgery, apparently underneath all of that fat my abdominal wall is pretty muscular and it was difficult for him to get his tools inside to do the job. Didn't charge me more. He could have, I used more of his time, more anethtesia, more nurses time, etc. I know he spent 4 hours on Fabby50 conversion from band to sleeve. There is no way he is doing 12 surgeries in one day. It can't be done, sure most do get complete in an hour, but I don't believe for a minute that he could string together 12 perfect easy cheesy surgeries.

I have my life back because of him and his team. Once again, I just wanted to validate Sandy's claims about the house/staff as I was there.

Bill

[stcyt 15]

Holy Cow Wing Rider!!!!!! Look at all that weight gone!!!!

[mistiblu 0]

I chose Dr. Almanza for my surgery and I was blessed because I too had no complications. Wingrider is completely right, the staff are very friendly and I was well treated however, I would not feel comfortable referring someone to this clinic. I went into this with my eyes wide open knowing all the potential risks/ complications but some of what I saw and later learned convinced me that this clinic unnecessarily puts people at risk. They do WAY too many surgeries a day and I think it's easy to get sloppy when you're herding people in and out like cattle. There were complications in my group I was just fortunate enough to have escaped them. I was very honest with my coordinator about my feelings and was told they were decreasing the number of surgeries daily to ensure they provide better service but it appears this hasn't happened. I believe Dr. Almanza is a fine surgeon, I think the problem lies with Betancourt's push to do too much. I'd probably do it again if I had to because it has changed my life...I'm down over 50 lb. and feel amazing but as an RN it's hard to ignore the risks being taken. All anyone can do is evaluate the information they're given and make the best decision for them. I don't judge others whatever their decision and don't expect to be judged for mine.

[NtvTxn 1,262]

I would be monitoring oral surgeons if I were currently looking into having my wisdom teeth pulled. I'd like to hear the good, the bad and the ugly...weed through it and come to my own conclusions. Surely this isn't a place where everyone sees nothing but rainbows and farts butterflies??!!!! LOL

[stoongal 10]

Gotta put this story out there I guess, to try & prevent more horrible outcomes. I went to Emmanuel clinic when it was not very busy. I found it to be an easy surgery for me to recover from & I am now 72 (this was last September BEFORE all the flurry of infections came out.) I trusted and believed everything my coordinator told me and I especially trusted Betancourt. I have since found out he in very mu*****ontrol of everything down there, and a lot of it is coverup and lies. Yes he is charming but charm is not what you are paying for. I even argued FOR them and posted to the nth degree refuting everyone who had negative things to say about them (the whole experience) I even talked my daughter and sister to go down and have their surgeries done, that is how confident I was.

Fast forward to middle of January, I went with my family and for a few days had a very nice time. Dismayed at the size of the new clinic, and I was even more dismayed that Dr Almanza was so over-booked! My sister Linda went in for her sleeve after 10 pm at night, the 6th of the day! I was worried about that as it was so overcrowded in the clinic and so little room for anyone to maneuver, but held my tongue as we expected the best outcome.

To make a long story short, my sister became very ill while there at the recovery house, Betancourt said it was gas pains and continued to give her pain control shots. She was in no shape to fly home on the Friday as booked, they caught the fact she had a collapsed lung and severe dehydration and she went back in for intravenous saline and oxygen, but they assumed there was no leak because of their tests.

BUT THERE WAS, a centimeter nick out of the stomach high up near the esophagus, and when the housekeeper took out the drain, fluids gushed out of Linda's body. the housekeeper just cleaned it up and said nothing, so we assumed things were OK, no leaks. She was in rough shape when I flew home with her on Saturday. She had to go to the hospital in Edmonton shortly after she got home as she went into septic shock, had a collapsed lung again, severe dehydration and kidney failure because of it. They operated on her for four hours, and ended up with flushing out her body cavity - over a liter of pus!. She was near death and was for well over a week! We were devastated to say the least..

Slowly things have improved since those first weeks passed, but she was in critical care for about 6 weeks until she could breathe on her own and not need a ventilator to help with that. The infection spread and caused all kinds of porosity in her stomach and esophagus.

To date she is STILL in the hospital in Edmonton, still being fed intravenously and with a feeding tube directly to her gut, while waiting for the last hole to heal in her esophagus, they did insert a stent but haven't tested it for leaks so far. She had a large hole in her abdomen due to all the 5 ensuing body cavity flushes they had to do every other day in the beginning weeks. It is healing and she will need two further operations, a skin graft and a hernia repair on the incision site. We do expect a full recovery but only after they test her stomach out with real food, which can be weeks away yet. She has lost her job, her income of course and a good chunk of her life due to this facility's operation. Safety should be your main concern, Betancourt and Almanza's "stacke'em and rack'em" policy is not doing anyone any favors. Dr Almanza, as nice as a man he is, is now a partner and profits are what it is all about now it seems.

There have been many (20 I heard), complication tales from there since December, most were too sick to tell them themselves but are known to many of the coordinators. They all distance themselves from those, chalking it up to normal rate of complications. They have to do damage control, it is their JOB, and Betancourt controls them! Doing so many surgeries a day in my opinion is SO NOT SAFE! Do NOT believe the other Drs listed in the PR for their new website are actually doing surgeries there yet, as Dr Almanza wants the extra surgeries for himself mainly.

Spend the extra now and go to a safe hospital down there, spend the $4000 more to save yourself from becoming another Linda, with hospital costs being what they are in the US I would think that would be more important than the up front extra now to save months of hospital and surgery bills as well as your lost income from your job should things go wrong.

Check out my photo albums for a picture of me visiting Linda in the hospital in Edmonton last month when I was there. Sorry Linda, I had waited for you to tell your story but you can't sit up long enough to type it out on the computer and people really need to hear this!

All of this is true and I am so sorry I doubted everyone that had problems there, even John who's wife wrote of his experience was pretty sick the day we drove to the airport with them and he ended up with infection and in the hospital. It was extremely busy the day of his surgery too. I am not saying that you won't have a good experience, but why risk it if you don't absolutely have to, is all I am saying, there are WAY too many stories like Linda's from that facility to ignore!

[LAN2k 18]

Gotta put this story out there I guess, to try & prevent more horrible outcomes. I went to Emmanuel clinic when it was not very busy. I found it to be an easy surgery for me to recover from & I am now 72 (this was last September BEFORE all the flurry of infections came out.) I trusted and believed everything my coordinator told me and I especially trusted Betancourt. I have since found out he in very mu*****ontrol of everything down there, and a lot of it is coverup and lies. Yes he is charming but charm is not what you are paying for. I even argued FOR them and posted to the nth degree refuting everyone who had negative things to say about them (the whole experience) I even talked my daughter and sister to go down and have their surgeries done, that is how confident I was.

Fast forward to middle of January, I went with my family and for a few days had a very nice time. Dismayed at the size of the new clinic, and I was even more dismayed that Dr Almanza was so over-booked! My sister Linda went in for her sleeve after 10 pm at night, the 6th of the day! I was worried about that as it was so overcrowded in the clinic and so little room for anyone to maneuver, but held my tongue as we expected the best outcome.

To make a long story short, my sister became very ill while there at the recovery house, Betancourt said it was gas pains and continued to give her pain control shots. She was in no shape to fly home on the Friday as booked, they caught the fact she had a collapsed lung and severe dehydration and she went back in for intravenous saline and oxygen, but they assumed there was no leak because of their tests.

BUT THERE WAS, a centimeter nick out of the stomach high up near the esophagus, and when the housekeeper took out the drain, fluids gushed out of Linda's body. the housekeeper just cleaned it up and said nothing, so we assumed things were OK, no leaks. She was in rough shape when I flew home with her on Saturday. She had to go to the hospital in Edmonton shortly after she got home as she went into septic shock, had a collapsed lung again, severe dehydration and kidney failure because of it. They operated on her for four hours, and ended up with flushing out her body cavity - over a liter of pus!. She was near death and was for well over a week! We were devastated to say the least..

Slowly things have improved since those first weeks passed, but she was in critical care for about 6 weeks until she could breathe on her own and not need a ventilator to help with that. The infection spread and caused all kinds of porosity in her stomach and esophagus.

To date she is STILL in the hospital in Edmonton, still being fed intravenously and with a feeding tube directly to her gut, while waiting for the last hole to heal in her esophagus, they did insert a stent but haven't tested it for leaks so far. She had a large hole in her abdomen due to all the 5 ensuing body cavity flushes they had to do every other day in the beginning weeks. It is healing and she will need two further operations, a skin graft and a hernia repair on the incision site. We do expect a full recovery but only after they test her stomach out with real food, which can be weeks away yet. She has lost her job, her income of course and a good chunk of her life due to this facility's operation. Safety should be your main concern, Betancourt and Almanza's "stacke'em and rack'em" policy is not doing anyone any favors. Dr Almanza, as nice as a man he is, is now a partner and profits are what it is all about now it seems.

There have been many (20 I heard), complication tales from there since December, most were too sick to tell them themselves but are known to many of the coordinators. They all distance themselves from those, chalking it up to normal rate of complications. They have to do damage control, it is their JOB, and Betancourt controls them! Doing so many surgeries a day in my opinion is SO NOT SAFE! Do NOT believe the other Drs listed in the PR for their new website are actually doing surgeries there yet, as Dr Almanza wants the extra surgeries for himself mainly.

Spend the extra now and go to a safe hospital down there, spend the $4000 more to save yourself from becoming another Linda, with hospital costs being what they are in the US I would think that would be more important than the up front extra now to save months of hospital and surgery bills as well as your lost income from your job should things go wrong.

Check out my photo albums for a picture of me visiting Linda in the hospital in Edmonton last month when I was there. Sorry Linda, I had waited for you to tell your story but you can't sit up long enough to type it out on the computer and people really need to hear this!

All of this is true and I am so sorry I doubted everyone that had problems there, even John who's wife wrote of his experience was pretty sick the day we drove to the airport with them and he ended up with infection and in the hospital. It was extremely busy the day of his surgery too. I am not saying that you won't have a good experience, but why risk it if you don't absolutely have to, is all I am saying, there are WAY too many stories like Linda's from that facility to ignore!

Oh my God Donna, I suspected it was that bad but did not want to push the issue with you. We both had our surgery back in September and I recall you feeling great about your sleeve and where you had it. I hope your daughter is doing well. I'm so sorry for the grief and suffering you and your sister have been through. My prayers are daily including your sister's full recovery. Thanks so much for posting what happened.

[Oregondaisy 2,021]

Thank you very much Donna for finally coming forward. I have known about this for a long time but we didn't hear from you or your sister directly so I knew it was not my story to tell.

I know you have saved some people from pain and misery by sharing this.

[BJean 16]

Thank you so much for sharing your story. Yours is what I call first hand experience - you've gone through this every step of the way... from the day you referred your family members and went with them to the clinic to being with them throughout their complicated and painful ordeals.

It is very possible that people reading your post will still tell themselves "this won't happen to me" and go ahead and take the risk. But my hope is that people reading this will consider all the infomation and give it serious thought before making a decision. If patients could visit each potential doctor and clinical set up prior to making their decision, that would be great. Unfortunately it isn't practical with those who are planning to go to Mexico. So having real life stories to read is a huge, huge help. So thank you so much for taking the time to post it here. Linda will certainly be in our thoughts and prayers.

[mistiblu 0]

My prayers go out to you and your family Donna. I'm so glad to hear from you, suspected something may have gone wrong when you stopped posting. I believe you telling Linda's story will help many, many people.

[BJean 16]

mistiblu, yours helps too! And I really appreciate you taking the time and having the courage to tell us about your experiences. And I am very happy that you were one of the lucky ones who had a good story to tell.

[stcyt 15]

I looked at your pic and my heart is breaking for Linda. The smiling face waiting for surgery is devastating. My thoughts are with you. Please keep us posted on Lindas progress.

Thanks for posting. Your post will help many many people.

take care

stacey

Edited April 15, 2010 by stcyt

[WingRider 1]

Gotta put this story out there I guess, to try & prevent more horrible outcomes. I went to Emmanuel clinic when it was not very busy. I found it to be an easy surgery for me to recover from & I am now 72 (this was last September BEFORE all the flurry of infections came out.) I trusted and believed everything my coordinator told me and I especially trusted Betancourt. I have since found out he in very mu*****ontrol of everything down there, and a lot of it is coverup and lies. Yes he is charming but charm is not what you are paying for. I even argued FOR them and posted to the nth degree refuting everyone who had negative things to say about them (the whole experience) I even talked my daughter and sister to go down and have their surgeries done, that is how confident I was.

Fast forward to middle of January, I went with my family and for a few days had a very nice time. Dismayed at the size of the new clinic, and I was even more dismayed that Dr Almanza was so over-booked! My sister Linda went in for her sleeve after 10 pm at night, the 6th of the day! I was worried about that as it was so overcrowded in the clinic and so little room for anyone to maneuver, but held my tongue as we expected the best outcome.

To make a long story short, my sister became very ill while there at the recovery house, Betancourt said it was gas pains and continued to give her pain control shots. She was in no shape to fly home on the Friday as booked, they caught the fact she had a collapsed lung and severe dehydration and she went back in for intravenous saline and oxygen, but they assumed there was no leak because of their tests.

BUT THERE WAS, a centimeter nick out of the stomach high up near the esophagus, and when the housekeeper took out the drain, fluids gushed out of Linda's body. the housekeeper just cleaned it up and said nothing, so we assumed things were OK, no leaks. She was in rough shape when I flew home with her on Saturday. She had to go to the hospital in Edmonton shortly after she got home as she went into septic shock, had a collapsed lung again, severe dehydration and kidney failure because of it. They operated on her for four hours, and ended up with flushing out her body cavity - over a liter of pus!. She was near death and was for well over a week! We were devastated to say the least..

Slowly things have improved since those first weeks passed, but she was in critical care for about 6 weeks until she could breathe on her own and not need a ventilator to help with that. The infection spread and caused all kinds of porosity in her stomach and esophagus.

To date she is STILL in the hospital in Edmonton, still being fed intravenously and with a feeding tube directly to her gut, while waiting for the last hole to heal in her esophagus, they did insert a stent but haven't tested it for leaks so far. She had a large hole in her abdomen due to all the 5 ensuing body cavity flushes they had to do every other day in the beginning weeks. It is healing and she will need two further operations, a skin graft and a hernia repair on the incision site. We do expect a full recovery but only after they test her stomach out with real food, which can be weeks away yet. She has lost her job, her income of course and a good chunk of her life due to this facility's operation. Safety should be your main concern, Betancourt and Almanza's "stacke'em and rack'em" policy is not doing anyone any favors. Dr Almanza, as nice as a man he is, is now a partner and profits are what it is all about now it seems.

There have been many (20 I heard), complication tales from there since December, most were too sick to tell them themselves but are known to many of the coordinators. They all distance themselves from those, chalking it up to normal rate of complications. They have to do damage control, it is their JOB, and Betancourt controls them! Doing so many surgeries a day in my opinion is SO NOT SAFE! Do NOT believe the other Drs listed in the PR for their new website are actually doing surgeries there yet, as Dr Almanza wants the extra surgeries for himself mainly.

Spend the extra now and go to a safe hospital down there, spend the $4000 more to save yourself from becoming another Linda, with hospital costs being what they are in the US I would think that would be more important than the up front extra now to save months of hospital and surgery bills as well as your lost income from your job should things go wrong.

Check out my photo albums for a picture of me visiting Linda in the hospital in Edmonton last month when I was there. Sorry Linda, I had waited for you to tell your story but you can't sit up long enough to type it out on the computer and people really need to hear this!

All of this is true and I am so sorry I doubted everyone that had problems there, even John who's wife wrote of his experience was pretty sick the day we drove to the airport with them and he ended up with infection and in the hospital. It was extremely busy the day of his surgery too. I am not saying that you won't have a good experience, but why risk it if you don't absolutely have to, is all I am saying, there are WAY too many stories like Linda's from that facility to ignore!

Stoongal,

I am so sorry to hear Linda's story. I was thinking things must not be good because you were on the boards so often then just disappeared. I am thanking God above for having made it through and fortunate enough to have not gone to the new hospital.

Bill