The Honeymoon Phase

[PhotoNut 7]

This thread shouldn't turn into newbies against veterans. This is a place for support regardless of where you are in your journey.

Oh my gosh, I totally agree!! This was never meant to do that. Please folks, no fighting and breaking up into this side against that side. We are all on the same team, just trying to understand one another and get along as we travel together. This is, without a doubt, the greatest community of people I have ever seen online. Do not think that I was grouping all older bandsters into one target and taking pot shots at them. Eeep! I'll be so distressed if this is how people are taking this. *sighs* I just want us all to be aware of our words and how they effect others. That's all.

Now I'm going to stress over this. I have hives! *laughs* It's true! I'm such a dink. *sighs* I love you guys. I really do - even you old bandsters. *winks with a big smile*

[DonnaB 3]

Yikes! That was never my intention either. The VAST majority of the time I spend on LBT is positive and supportive. I never meant to imply that veterans were being mean to newbies. Waaaaaa! lol

I'm so sorry if my runaway keyboard has made anyone think I don't completely appreciate their time and advise. I do. I can even appreciate a running battle like this thread has turned into! I tend to forget that not everyone enjoys a heated debate.

My sincere apologies if my posts have offended you.

[GeezerSue 7]

You might want to take a page from your own book on that subject GeezerSue.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I lost 8 pounds pre-op, 7 pounds immediately post-op and have been losing steadily since. My loss wasn't deydration and I didn't regain any of that weight. As you say, 'your mileage may vary' which means you have to allow that some people DO lose that amount of weight two weeks post-op whether you think it's "bullshit" or not. A blanket statement is a blanket statement whether its made by someone else or by YOU.

And an incorrect paraphrase is just incorrect. YOU might want to reread what I wrote. I was talking about people who "lost" 20 pounds in the first two weeks post op...or some other huge amount. According to your sig, you lost nine pounds in the two weeks post-op. Big difference. Less than half. Nine pounds CAN be lost. To "lose" 20 pounds in 14 days, one would have to underconsume 5000 calories a day. Which would pretty much mean they were 300 plus pounds, eating nothing and jogging at about 8 mph for 20 hours a day. (Okay so I'm exaggerating, but the math doesn't work for a claim of 20 pounds. There has to be a tremendous amount of Water weight involved in that.) And it was Rumbaut who explained that to me.

The rest of this post is not specifically directed to GeezerSue but to all veteran bandsters who feel the need to 'protect' us newbies from our own expectations by cautioning us 'for our own good.' What we need is positive advise and support. That's not to say that we don't want the truth, we just want you to try to remember what it was like when you were full of hope and anticipation and give that truth in a friendly, supportive way. Is that asking for too much?

Maybe YOU function well when all you hear is "positive advise and support." That makes you a glass-half-full person, I guess. But half the planet is "glass-half-empty" people and they have their needs, too. Some of us need to hear all the pros and all the cons. I hope we all get the support we need, even the (male or female) curmudgeons.

Continuing the newlywed analogy, if someone got married that no one EVER thought was the marrying kind, a comment on the line of "they're doing so well" at six months out might be quite a success. While I freely admit that that doesn't guarantee a lifetime of bliss, there is nothing wrong with being happy that they've made it, happily, to six months. By that same token, if someone has tried for years to lose weight and never had success beyond a month, then six months is quite a feat. It's OK to publicly Celebrate a six month success. It doesn't mean that at 2 years we'll be forced to eat our words. Success builds upon success. The best way to build confidence and boost the chance for longterm success is to be successful early on. Why do some people feel the need to lay a wet blanket on enthusiasm?

Being married six months...or being banded six months--no matter what other people thought your chances of success at either might be--still does NOT qualify anyone as the source of all wisdom and truth about success at either venture. Not you, not me, not anyone else. One of the most despised banded people I even encountered did a GREAT job with her (relatively short) journey, and at nine months out was at goal and telling people who had been fighting a longer time with far more weight to lose exactly what they were doing wrong. She was eventually chased off of one board by the members and permanently banned on one or two other boards for appointing herself an expert.

There's a huge difference between giving a cautionary statement like "you should be aware that a lot of people gain back some of their post op weight loss when they start eating mushies and move back to solid food" than an attitude of 'you'll see when the honeymoon is over that marriage is just drudgery and work.'

I don't think MY marriage is drudgery and work...and I feel sorry for anyone who finds themselves in that situation. But my MARRIAGE--the long term, have kids, pay bills, good times, bad times stuff--is VERY DIFFERENT than the first couple of years and there is very little most newlyweds can tell most long-married folks that the latter haven't already been through and accepted or rejected.

It isn't an attempt at being patronizing...really. It's just experience. The people who used to tell my husband and me that our marriage would be strong like theirs if we would just join their church or their Amway group (?) are long ago divorced. People who NEVER thought they would consider any wls do. People who got RnY are banded over it. People who got bands change to RnY. People who got DS started drinking and oops. You have no idea how much email I get from previously die-hard bandsters and all of the emails start with "PLEASE keep this just between us..." because they are having to reexamine their position and are embarassed and not up to the fights from people who are going to try to convince them to just try harder.

So youthful enthusiasm is cool...but not generally a deciding factor for the old folks.

Happily, though the exact feeling of euphoria may not last forever, some honeymoons do go on and on. And on.

I'm glad to read that. I was starting to worry about the source of your information about marriage...LOL! I hope yours--if you have one--is doing fine. And if the info came from someone else, I hope they get their situation worked out. I don't THINK my husband and I are the exception, because we know others like us...but we are in love, and hold hands, and tickle and giggle and laugh and bicker and look at our daughter and think we did a GREAT job and we suffer when surgery rudely interrupts our sex life and really LIKE to spend time together. (He has 626 days 'til he retires, not that we're counting or anything.) The honeymoon phase (and I don't think I ever use that expression, but anyway) may have used more calories...but the last 25 years or so have been WAY better!

Yeah, I know it wasn't all for me, but I'm on Prednisone and wired.

[Nykee 13]

MY experience with the honeymoon period.. and being told about it:

I was a ball of emotions when I got that perfect restriciton where nothing was ever the same. food was a second thought. I was never hungry and My band choose whean and what I could eat, not me. FREEDOM from obsession. I was in control for the first time in my life. It was mindboggling. I Didnt understand how it was possible.

I came here and tried to talk through it.. I was crazy..lol

I think it was Alexandrea who mentioned the honeymoon period.

I was GLAD to have the emotions I was confused about explained.

A honeymoon period explained it well.

I didnt like to think it would go away, but I was glad to get to experience it at all.

I dont know about it going away, I have had too many problems with my band to examine that.

I have had my band over a year, but I am NO veteran. I STILL havent figured out my band and how to get it working right for me..

In all that time my band worked right for about 4 months total.:think

[Yoda 0]

okay..wow...talk about beating a dead horse!

All comments in this thread are worthwhile and appreciated but now it is just becoming repetetive and "I said/she said". (IMHO). Basically you (we) all fundamenally agree, in principle on ths issue. So, lets just all move on and get along. I just don't want to see this turn into another "argumentative thread" like the one on following your Dr.s advice a while ago.

We all have the same aim....and we all agree on the big one so lets not stress the little stuff. The different sides have been eloquently expressed...now there is no need to keep going at it and raising accusations etc.

Again...IMHO....(course I might be slammed now!!) lol

:confused:

[Alexandra 55]

I was going to respond but Sue said it all for me, right down to the glass-half-full analogy! :confused: Just one comment to I8everything:

To tell people that you are in a phase and that the "euphoria" or "honeymoon" phase will be over soon enough is discouraging to me and maybe to many others. Not everyone will lose the euphoria you speak of. So my point is, generalizing is just wrong. Just because you are having a bad experience doesn't mean you SHOULD overshadow the good with the bad.

I agree that discouragement is a bad idea, always. But please, getting over the honeymoon euphoria is not tantamount to having a bad experience! It's just another step along the way. And one, I warrant, that everyone has at some point, earlier or later as the case may be. Hasn't the novelty of anything ever worn off for you before? That's all I'm talking about.

And Photo, yes, your points about habits changing two and three years out being due to a lack of diligence on our parts are very well-taken. But I'd also like to observe that something else changes over time as well. Nerve endings in our esophagus can become less sensitive, and it is literally harder to feel that "stop" signal. The physical barrier is still there, and too much food will result in a PB, but it's not as easy to detect when that's happening because our nerves are desensitized to some degree. I have to rely on memory and habit to serve myself a half-sandwich, because I could eat the whole one fairly easily (bread and all). The hunger is still addressed the way it was all along (thank goodness), but I don't get the stop signals I used to get, which makes it a little harder to stop eating when I reflexively want to continue.

Things really do change, not about the band itself (unless you have adjustment issues) but about our bodies. And that's just one more unpredictable element in the banding journey.

[PhotoNut 7]

It's ok, Yoda. I don't think people are fighting. I think this is an emotional issue which stirs up feelings about our own journeys and gets us talking - which is a GOOD thing. Continued discussion that helps people dig deep and talk about things which they might otherwise repress and deal with alone is a GOOD thing. *hugs*

Thank you to all who are responding. I appreciate hearing all sides because it helps me to understand more and enables me to be a better friend.

[bbrecruiter2000 1]

Hi Photnut,

Alexandra addressed the issue of satiety and the changes that happen as a long term bandster better than I did in my previous post. At least for me, the following changed:

I no longer get the full signal the way I did during the honeymoon period, so I guess you could say that the band does to some extent lose its effectiveness for some people. I know part of it has to to with esophageal motility, the band changing position with massive weightloss etc... I have had my band emptied, refilled etc and I can still guzzle Water and certain foods for me go right throught the band. NOw I said some people lose satiety, not all because I have several friends who have the same level of satiety as they did a few years ago, stop at 5-6 oz and stay full for four hours.

It is true that many of the reasons that I do not lose any more weight and I have gained some back is because I am not doing all the things that made me successful with the band in the first place. I would say that several long plateaus and weeks at the gym with no weight result have probably

resulted in me giving up a little. I dont go to the gym anymore, but I do walk quite a bit and get some exercise, but not the level I did before. Part of the problem is that I had plastic surgery last year and then couldnt exercise for 2 months and I got off track. I still prepare my meals, eat mostly at home and pack my own lunches and Snacks and eat very little bread, mostly meat and some veggies for the most part.

YOu are right, it doesnt help to tell a newbie during the honeymoon period that things will change. ITs not motivating and I respect your position on this. My point was that its also wrong too to go forward with blinders and think things will continually be easy. The closer you get to goal, the harder it is to continue to lose weight. Thats why I said the suggestions that Paul made were great, but not one size fits all and if following his rules resulted in someone coming back and saying 6 month from now, I did like Paul said and it didnt work as well, could be very demotivating. I thought the first 6 months to a year were hard, but looking back its the now....... To answer your question, at two years out I plateaued at 180 and every effort I made to get lower than this failed. At two and a half years, I had plastic surgery and approaching year three, I feel like I am starting all over again, but with less juvenation and new determination, but the realization that this really an addiction that I will have to fight against my whole life even with all the modificaitions I have already made. Sometimes this can be daunting and you feel it is insurmountable. I know now because of the band that I have the power to change and have a very useful tool, but nevertheless, it is very different than the beginning of my journey.

I have more in my band now than I did a year ago with less restriction. Lots of folks could say, well if you are gaining or not losing, go get a fill then. That will solve your problem. This is not true. You cant just keep filling the band. The band is doing all it can do for me now. I have to do the rest and its harder than the first year was. It is starting again. At least for me.

Babs In TX

334/180 ish

[Nykee 13]

Photonut, You are such a sweetie! (((((hugs))))))

(Alexandrea)

Nerve endings in our esophagus can become less sensitive, and it is literally harder to feel that "stop" signal. The physical barrier is still there, and too much food will result in a PB, but it's not as easy to detect when that's happening because our nerves are desensitized to some degree.

me)

Oh.. there you go agian learning me things..

I just went through a month and half of heck with my band.. My fill doctor was out of the country. My doctor was giving me solumedral shots as often as he could to keep my swelling down, it was hard to guage when I needed a shot and such... so often I was having all the chest pains and feeling the pressure and having to gag my self to release the slime, many times I coulnt sip Water and OMG, it was horrible. I dont think I did anything worse in that time than many people do ON their own by eating too much, too fast, whatever... BUT FOr me, who went all this year avoiding those things at all costs.. it sucked to sometimes be unable to help it.. cuz I was swollen and had to get an unfill asap.

Finally I did.. and I am fine now.. (too loose, but oh well)

anyway, I totally noticed the desensitation during this time.. I would think I could take a sip of Water or juice.. AND BAM it would be stuck! I would get soooo mad at myself, "WHY didnt I KNOW NOT TO take the drink?? What am I some out of control FREAk who has to take a drink even if it means I will have to gag myself to slime it up for a few minutes..."

I really got mad at myself...

It was totally the nerves being shot.. once I just put my fingers to my lips and my uvala (spell?) spazzed out..

Its fine now..

If I get to the point where its hard to feel the stop signal.. I am screwed~

I dont care about being hungry, or denied my favorite foods.. (ya know what I mean)

I really care about what happens when you do not obey that stop signal.!

(it feels soooooo wrong, even WAY before it hurts or you pb or slime)

[DonnaB 3]

I guess you told me, huh?

For the record, I never said I didn't want to hear the pros and cons. Like most people, I prefer to go into unfamiliar territory with my eyes open. All I'm asking for are fewer negative generalities.

I lost 15 pounds in a two week period - does it really matter that the knife came in the MIDDLE of those two weeks? Do those 8 pounds pre-op and 7 pounds post op not add up to 15 pounds lost during the same two week liquid diet? I do realize that's still only 75% of the proclaimed weight loss you so disparage in your post, but all in all a significant weight loss. I'll take it. AND publicly Celebrate it.

GeezerSue, I didn't intend for you to be so upset by my perspective. I'm merely supporting P'nut in her Quest for understanding the negativity, which I have also witnessed on occasion, being spewed on enthusiastic 'newbies' - dreadful term in itself! LOL I hope this thread won't make future discussions between us strained and am sorry to hear you're on medication. What is wrong with you?

[Telly 4]

Deleted By The Poster

[Telly 4]

ROFL! I have to laugh. I'm dying. This is the 2nd thread that I have read that really makes me laugh.

Ok, here's a very very bad, politically incorrect joke.... Please, do not take offence to this joke, it's just a funny one that reminded me of the recent argumentative threads..

(Joke removed)

Just thought I'd share it. Again, wasn't intended on offending anyone. Just wanted to throw rubber into the bonfire.

[DonnaB 3]

Ha ha Telly!

You can't escape with that delete dodge:

:confused: BLANKET STATEMENT ALERT:rolleyes:

I am 6 weeks out and lost over 40lbs. I am very well hydrated as I drink madd amounts of Water daily. I am eating food now and I am still losing. I have not gained any of that weight back. I work out for 2 - 3 hours in the early morning or late evenings. You said all that crap as if everyone has lost weight right after surgery due to dehydration when in fact, we all had 24 hours continuous IV in our systems and using the toilet every 5 to 10 minutes.

How's THAT for some rubber on the bonfire!!!!!! LOL

You know I'm just giving you grief, right? Right? Telly?

(If I really thought you'd be upset I wouldn't have done it.)

(If you really are, I'll delete it immediately.)

DELETE HAPPY!!!!!!!!

[leatha_g 4]

Thank you very much Babs and Alexandra for explaining the issues that can effect us as time goes by with the band. This too is the case for me. When my band was replaced in 2004, NOTHING has been the same. I have never gotten the 'hard stop' like I did with my first band. My esophagus apparently no longer moves food through the band as it did before. I no longer get the satiety signal, either. Interestingly, my weight is also stopped at around 175-180. My doc seems to think the band has done what it will do for me and that I should be happy that I've lost somewhere over my 60% of excess weight (now DIET, Leatha).

I hesitate to post anymore as I don't want to offend anyone's sensibilities.

As for me, I'm looking for the 'old, disgruntled, failure' forum.... :faint:

[I8everything 0]

ROFL @ DONNAB!!!

Dohhhhh!!! (as Homer would say)