The Honeymoon Phase

[Alexandra 55]

Very true Photonut. It is almost as if someone wants you to fail by telling you that you will be out of the excitement soon enough. I saw this in "Enough is Enough" thread. There was a comment where the poster was very adamant on letting readers know that losing the first month's post op weight won't happen again and that the euphoria will soon be over. It's a slap in the face and is rather discouraging nonetheless. I agree with you in that we should motivate eachother rather than kill our community with virtual speed bumps.

Without going back to the other thread and seeing precisely what was said (because I'm lazy), I submit that it's important for everyone to realize that the weight loss ISN'T going to continue as quickly as perhaps it did immediately postop, for some people. Other people won't experience ANY weight loss until they reach good restriction, which can be months out of surgery. My point is just that everyone's experience is different, and if we are getting discouraged by other people sharing their own experiences we aren't using the perspective that we should. There's nothing "slap in the face" about being told that weight loss isn't continuous--it's just realistic and true.

I also submit that we all make our own "honeymoons." I see this all the time, when people complain about their own progress while others who are at the exact same place are thrilled beyond compare. Why is that? Because it's all personal.

Being excited, or not, has absolutely no bearing on whether one will succeed. I still don't understand how that connection got made in the first place. The salient fact about the band as a weight-loss tool is that it is a process, and everyone's perspective changes over time. What's the problem with observing that truth?

[PhotoNut 7]

The salient fact about the band as a weight-loss tool is that it is a process, and everyone's perspective changes over time. What's the problem with observing that truth?

I wholeheartedly agree, Alexandra. Again, this is not what I was taking exception with. I've tried very hard to explain that. I'm sorry it's not getting through.

[babsintx3 0]

Hi Photo,

I am one of those bandsters that made reference to the honeymoon stage. None of my remarks were meant to be discouraging to new bandsters. The point was some of the things Paul said are true, but they are not the Ten Commandments. All fast food is not bad for you. But if HIS addiction focused on eating too much fast food, then HE needs to stay away from it and not prostelytize about the merits of staying away from fast food joints and suggest all of it is crap because it is not. My problem is NOT fast food but the fact that I have a satiety disorder so I guess that would mean I should never go grocery shopping again.

Not all bandsters exercise daily. Some have knee problems or need hip replacements or edema or other physical ailments that prevent them from moving around. Great advice to new bandsters would be to exercise, but what about the ones who cant? One of the most successful bandsters I know who is a nurse has not exercised at all through her whole journey and has been at goal almost one year and weighs 150 down from 290. She now has the gift of mobility and has the choice of whether she wants to exercise, but telling her that she needs to exercise to be successful longterm is a moot point. She has been maintaining her present weight for more than a year now and who am I to lecture her about what works or doesnt work?

And what works for one, does not necessarily work for others. When the honeymoon is over (which is true for all WLS procedures) things do change and when you lose your restriction, dont have any restriction or lose your band all the demons come knocking at the door and even the folks who have been totally compliant, followed good bandster protocol and exercise daily find that they need far less calories to move around a person half the size. Weight gain for WLS patients whether it be band, RNY or any other procedure happens. If you find it demotivating for me to point out that perception changes, then that is your perrogative.

I am thrilled that Paul has been so successful with his regimen. I too lost 120 lbs my first year of banding and busted my ass to achieve this success. In my second year, I lost an additional 34 pounds and then plateaued for 6 months. I quit smoking, gained about 12 pounds, had plastic surgery and all my fill removed and many of the food demons come back with the missing saline. My whole point is for those who have not reached a sweet spot or have never had one, the tool is a lot less effective and it could be very discouraging for those newbies who are not losing for those reasons to think that they are not trying hard enough.

And just think how hard it would be for someone who really tries and is not seeing the results that Paul is seeing?

Also for you to say that you can only think of one reason why someone would point out that there is a honeymoon period this instead of offering words of encouragement and WOOHOO!!! s and GREAT JOB! and its not a pleasant conclusion (paraphrased) is really off the mark. I do find it a little confusing that someone would think that I am trying to be hurtful by pointing out that things really change radically through this journey. Somebody once told me that there is a big difference between truth and perception. I have more or less maintained my weight give or take 5-8 lbs. Now that the honeymoon is over, it is a huge struggle to maintain this weight. 3-4 hours of exercise and a 1300 calorie a day eating plan of mostly meat and veggies and some limited carbs just aint cutting it to keep the weight off. Theres only so far you can go with restriction ( I dont barf very often 2 or 3 times a year) and the tool does become less effective several years out for lots of reasons like dwindling satiety, the fact you get used to restriction and find ways to eat around the band even though I said I would NEVER do this. I dont drink when I eat, but a pre meal cup of warm tea helps to get that little bit of extra meat down. A little more Sauce for my meat acts as extra lube and before you know it, I ate an extra two ounces of steak. OOPS! Sometimes your portions get bigger just a 1/4 oz more of this and a little of that and you dont notice until you are now eating a cup of food once again. And its easy to get complacent once the weight is off. So although many of the things Paul are saying are true, they are more easily said when you are losing 20 lbs a month.

I recall when I was first doing research on the band that I went to obesityhelp lapband forum and posted and got one reply 3 days later to my posting. I remember "SouthernBandgal" Michelle was the only person to reply to my questions. THere was very little information available about the lapband three years ago, so all the protocol Paul so kindly outlined in his posting wasnt available at all and most of us back then stuck with our docs protocol and winged the rest.

As said here by an earlier poster, obesity is a managed addiction. I love my band but there are limitations regarding this tool and there really is a HONEYMOON period where one should maximize losses and try their best to be as compliant as possible. I understand what Paul was doing and he has a big heart, but his guidelines work for him, not for all of us. I went to a nutritionist, a psychologist (pre and post banding), hired a personal trainer, worked out daily and posted religiously my first two years of banding. Things do change at year 3, 4, 5, so if this bothers you that I point this out, then so be it. THeres nothing I can do to make you feel differently.

Babs in TX

334/180 ish

Size 14 -16

Dont weigh myself anymore but my clothes still fit!!

[leatha_g 4]

Thank you, Alex. And I certainly apologize if anyone feels discouraged by any of my straight forward and honest comments. I still agree that farther out the process changes. If that's scary to someone, or offensive then please forgive me.

Because I have experienced several of these phases, including a complication or two, does not make me a failure who's attempting to throw a wet blanket on someone's party. I personally resent that implication. There are boards out there who don't allow people to discuss the ups and downs of being banded. I had thought this was not one of them.

I am thrilled for Big Paul. I stated that he had posted a great post. I thoroughly advocate every single thing he said about the reality of losing weight. People do whine, people do NOT do enough research and people eat the wrong foods and moan because they haven't lost weight. AMEN!

I don't discount anyone's weight loss success and I certainly don't wish them anything less than perfection with their bands. I can't help it if I'm an 'old timer'.. haha, but because I am, I still stand behind the fact that things change. I'm sure sorry for that, but it's life folks. Go gangbusters while you can!! Get what you came for, for sure.. and don't pay any attention to us old folks, we've past on all we're good for (where do you think all these cliches, phrases and knowledge come from?)

[I8everything 0]

Without going back to the other thread and seeing precisely what was said (because I'm lazy), I submit that it's important for everyone to realize that the weight loss ISN'T going to continue as quickly as perhaps it did immediately postop, for some people. Other people won't experience ANY weight loss until they reach good restriction, which can be months out of surgery. My point is just that everyone's experience is different, and if we are getting discouraged by other people sharing their own experiences we aren't using the perspective that we should. There's nothing "slap in the face" about being told that weight loss isn't continuous--it's just realistic and true.

I also submit that we all make our own "honeymoons." I see this all the time, when people complain about their own progress while others who are at the exact same place are thrilled beyond compare. Why is that? Because it's all personal.

Being excited, or not, has absolutely no bearing on whether one will succeed. I still don't understand how that connection got made in the first place. The salient fact about the band as a weight-loss tool is that it is a process, and everyone's perspective changes over time. What's the problem with observing that truth?

It was stated that the gung-ho'ness of losing weight and eating right and excitement of the band will die over time (not die as the exact words) but... the point was made. So what if it's true?? It was said factually. Everyone is different. Weight losses and time frames in the weight loss process will be different for everyone. Not everything is fact here in this forum and I take everything with a grain of salt (just like another poster stated). To tell people that you are in a phase and that the "euphoria" or "honeymoon" phase will be over soon enough is discouraging to me and maybe to many others. Not everyone will lose the euphoria you speak of. So my point is, generalizing is just wrong. Just because you are having a bad experience doesn't mean you SHOULD overshadow the good with the bad.

Yes, tell your experience and share your uglies about the band, I'm sure someone will find it as "good reading" material. I know just by being human that Reality is a fact. However what good does it do by dishing out your failures and passing it off as if the band has failed you instead of you failing yourself. The way most people here negatively talk about the band has pretty much blamed the band for failing them. Enough of that! I am new, I am unbanded and I have spoken to a few new people who aren't banded yet who are scared out of their minds because of posts like that. It's a mistake for people to make statements as fact instead of opinion.

and P.S. - weight loss can be continuous and this statement IS realistic and very true.

[DonnaB 3]

I came to LBT right about the time that Photonut was being 'board slapped' by people saying she was a newbie and her enthusiasm was due to being recently banded and that she was judgemental. Because of those posts, I was wary of Photonut for a long time and read her posts with scepticism and, occasionally, attributed them with a negative connotation. But I read them.

After watching her posts for a long time I finally came across one that I felt I had to chime in on - but I refused to call her P'nut. I didn't want her, or anyone else on lapbandtalk, to think we were pals. After all, she was that judgemental newbie! But I kept watching her posts, knowing all the while that that negative personality of hers was going to rear its ugly head eventually.

Funny thing is, months have passed now. MONTHS, and I still haven't seen it. What I HAVE seen, is consistent good advise, unending willingness to help out others (no matter how many times she's already answered that question about how to post a picture!), constant support for anyone who needs it, and an open, honest, caring, soul that she doesn't hesitate to bare if she feels strongly about something or feels it will benefit someone else!

I'm not the kind of person who jumps in and makes friends with everyone (and I'm certainly not making any now!), but I'm ashamed of myself for allowing a few people's negative personal feelings - probably attributable to their own self-doubts or failures - color my perception of someone I would be proud to be allowed to call a friend.

NOW, as to that so-called Honeymoon Phase . . .

It's called the honeymoon phase in reference to the feelings newly married couples have for each other. Everyone knows that those feelings tend to calm down as time passes. The thing is, isn't it our own individual responsibility to keep that honeymoon feeling alive? Isn't it best for our marriages to think of ways to keep the focus on our relationship strong? Wouldn't it be wrong or hurtful for "old married couples" to tell us that our committment will dwindle no matter what we do just because theirs may have? I tend to think think that couples who stay together forever have figured out something that couples who divorce just didn't, couldn't, or wouldn't. They've decided that they will stay the course. They've made a committment to each other to never become complacent when it comes to their relationship. Sometimes it can be rough or even rocky but with perseverence they remain committed. Do I need to point out the comparison being made in my (long winded) analogy? I don't think so. Anyone who isn't getting the point, wouldn't get it no matter what I said anyway.

And Finally . . .

P'nut, I apologize for judging you based on what total strangers had to say, and I hope you'll forgive me. I can think of no better role model for "newbies" and jaded elders alike. The proof is in the sugar free fat free pudding! 70 pounds is amazing and truly inspirational.

BTW, your message is perfectly clear to anyone whose perspective has not become clouded by self-doubt or just plain exhaustion.

[I8everything 0]

Wouldn't it be wrong or hurtful for "old married couples" to tell us that our committment will dwindle no matter what we do just because theirs may have?

Thank you thank you thank you! It's how I'm feeling about the matter and I couldn't have said it better or even right but this analogy was what I meant.

Thank you again DonnaB for spitting it out for me.

[lianna 3]

"Funny thing is, months have passed now. MONTHS, and I still haven't seen it. What I HAVE seen, is consistent good advise, unending willingness to help out others (no matter how many times she's already answered that question about how to post a picture!), constant support for anyone who needs it, and an open, honest, caring, soul that she doesn't hesitate to bare if she feels strongly about something or feels it will benefit someone else!"

Donna B, I agree wholeheartedly! As for the honeymoon phase stuff...I have no real opinion one way or the other, I am somewhere in the middle on that, lol.

[GeezerSue 7]

Well, here I am being a double-old-timer!

I've been married for just short of 33 years. The committment is stronger than ever...but after the first year or two, it's a different ride. Which is why I chuckled at Susan's refence to how well someone else had been doing at (a whole) six months out. To me, that's like saying, "Look how well their marriage is going, and they've been married six months today!" (Remember, most people also go into the band journey as a "forever" thing.)

While that doesn't mean that anyone is going to fail at either their weight loss journey or their marriage, it IS saying that six months out is still a bit early to come to conclusions about what works or what doesn't. I think that at that point, all we can say is, "Well, for me, so far, THIS is what's working...but your mileage may vary."

One other thing...I often read about people who are two weeks out thinking they they have lost 20 pounds..forever! Bullshit. They're dehydrated from surgery and insufficient post-op Fluid intake. It happens all the time. And they are probably going to be VERY depressed in a couple of weeks when they start drinking Water and eating food and "regain" all that weight. They didn't lose it...and they didn't regain it. While it doesn't feel "right" taking the wind out of their sails, it MIGHT still be a good idea to mention the possibility of dehydration rather than actual weight loss. First, they might benefit from increasing Fluid intake and second, the "letdown" might be less severe...and they might not be tempted to start thinking of themselves as failures...again.

[Trip2bme 0]

Thank you...not only for what you said, but for sharing your heart and mind. Only 2 weeks banded myself, I've already sunk in and out of the 'honeymoon' stage. Discouragment is a close shadow when you only have liquids.

As for what people think of you as a person and your personal journey...that's why we're all in this place at one time. To be a community of newbies, oldbies, and in-betweenies...remember it takes a village? We are all going to have different thoughts, ideas, helps, hurts...and we need to share them in such a way as to strengthen each other. So, ROCK ON P'NUT!...and everyone else who has questions, answers and pontifications!

btw...you're right, you do have the best husband. I am blessed by the way he supports you!

[DonnaB 3]

. . . all we can say is, "Well, for me, so far, THIS is what's working...but your mileage may vary."

One other thing...I often read about people who are two weeks out thinking they they have lost 20 pounds..forever! Bullshit. They're dehydrated from surgery and insufficient post-op Fluid intake. I thappens all the time. And they are probably going to be VERY depressed in a couple of weeks when they start drinking Water and eating food and "regain" all that weight. They didn't lose it...and they didn't regain it. While it doesn't feel "right" taking the wind out of their sails, it MIGHT still be a good idea to mention the possibility of dehydration rather than actual weight loss. First, they might benefit from increasing Fluid intake and second, the "letdown" might be less severe...and they might not be tempted to start thinking of themselves as failures...again.

You might want to take a page from your own book on that subject GeezerSue.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I lost 8 pounds pre-op, 7 pounds immediately post-op and have been losing steadily since. My loss wasn't deydration and I didn't regain any of that weight. As you say, 'your mileage may vary' which means you have to allow that some people DO lose that amount of weight two weeks post-op whether you think it's "bullshit" or not. A blanket statement is a blanket statement whether its made by someone else or by YOU.

The rest of this post is not specifically directed to GeezerSue but to all veteran bandsters who feel the need to 'protect' us newbies from our own expectations by cautioning us 'for our own good.' What we need is positive advise and support. That's not to say that we don't want the truth, we just want you to try to remember what it was like when you were full of hope and anticipation and give that truth in a friendly, supportive way. Is that asking for too much?

Continuing the newlywed analogy, if someone got married that no one EVER thought was the marrying kind, a comment on the line of "they're doing so well" at six months out might be quite a success. While I freely admit that that doesn't guarantee a lifetime of bliss, there is nothing wrong with being happy that they've made it, happily, to six months. By that same token, if someone has tried for years to lose weight and never had success beyond a month, then six months is quite a feat. It's OK to publicly Celebrate a six month success. It doesn't mean that at 2 years we'll be forced to eat our words. Success builds upon success. The best way to build confidence and boost the chance for longterm success is to be successful early on. Why do some people feel the need to lay a wet blanket on enthusiasm?

There's a huge difference between giving a cautionary statement like "you should be aware that a lot of people gain back some of their post op weight loss when they start eating mushies and move back to solid food" than an attitude of 'you'll see when the honeymoon is over that marriage is just drudgery and work.'

Happily, though the exact feeling of euphoria may not last forever, some honeymoons do go on and on. And on.

[PhotoNut 7]

Hiya Babs, Thank you for taking the time to write about this. I'm very glad you did and I appreciate it a great deal. You made a lot of very good points in this post and even though you may not think you can change the way I feel about this, you have - in some areas. I still maintain that making the "honeymoon phase" comments can be discouraging, and that they have been used in ways that appeared to be a means of taking away the hard earned praises for those who are doing well. I'm glad to hear that you didn't intend yours in the way that it seemed. I've always found you to be a very friendly person with a lot to contribute.

Also for you to say that you can only think of one reason why someone would point out that there is a honeymoon period this instead of offering words of encouragement and WOOHOO!!! s and GREAT JOB! and its not a pleasant conclusion (paraphrased) is really off the mark. I do find it a little confusing that someone would think that I am trying to be hurtful by pointing out that things really change radically through this journey.

I think that people are misunderstanding what I've said. Contrary to what some have implied, I do not have on rose colored glasses, and I don't live in a fluffy little cloud of naivity. I struggle with depression on a daily basis. I have already experienced days of feeling like I was going to fail, even though I can see that things are going well - so far. I have faced head hunger and the temptations to fit in a bit more food than I know I should. I have already had days when I was weary of thinking about food and this damn journey. I see my friends doing 200 leg lifts and running miles and having huge successes with excercise routines, and I have quietly felt like a lazy ass wimp in comparison. But you see, I don't tell my friends that they are only doing well because they are in a honeymoon phase and soon they'll be wondering how in the hell they ended up doing nothing for six weeks and felling like crap. Now that may very well happen to them, but then again it may not. All I know is, I will not be one to toss out negative forecasts - just to be sure they don't end up disappointed down the road. What does that accomplish? Nothing except chipping away at their current good state of mind. I see nothing reassuring, educational, or supportive in it. And you're right, that might just be my perception. However, from what I'm seeing it isn't just mine. There are many who feel the same as I do when they hear comments like this. And my goal here was to make people aware of that, on behalf of those who don't speak out but rather take those words to heart and let them chip away at the hope and confidence that they have in the here and now.

I have more or less maintained my weight give or take 5-8 lbs. Now that the honeymoon is over, it is a huge struggle to maintain this weight. 3-4 hours of exercise and a 1300 calorie a day eating plan of mostly meat and veggies and some limited carbs just aint cutting it to keep the weight off. Theres only so far you can go with restriction ( I dont barf very often 2 or 3 times a year) and the tool does become less effective several years out for lots of reasons like dwindling satiety, the fact you get used to restriction and find ways to eat around the band even though I said I would NEVER do this. I dont drink when I eat, but a pre meal cup of warm tea helps to get that little bit of extra meat down. A little more Sauce for my meat acts as extra lube and before you know it, I ate an extra two ounces of steak. OOPS! Sometimes your portions get bigger just a 1/4 oz more of this and a little of that and you dont notice until you are now eating a cup of food once again. And its easy to get complacent once the weight is off.

Now this is interesting. Honestly, I'm not being sarcastic at all. I find this very good information and I'm curious to learn more about why this occurs. Surely we don't end up with a tool that is "worn out" and not as effective, leaving us to fend for ourselves... do we? And I'd really like to know if stepping back to re-evaluate our eating habits and then regrouping wouldn't be helpful. You said that you don't notice that you're eating more... Wouldn't keeping a food journal help you be more aware of this? Measuring portions, etc. I know it can be a drag to do that all the time, and often I forget for a day or two. But I also find that if I completely stop, I mentally rationalize the bad habits I'm allowing to creep back in. So I make corrections. It's like driving along a straight road. We usually have to keep making small adjustments with the steering wheel to keep the car from drifting off the road or into an oncoming lane of traffic. I really would love to hear more about this from you. If you get time.

I understand what Paul was doing and he has a big heart, but his guidelines work for him, not for all of us. I went to a nutritionist, a psychologist (pre and post banding), hired a personal trainer, worked out daily and posted religiously my first two years of banding. Things do change at year 3, 4, 5, so if this bothers you that I point this out, then so be it.

You said for the first two years. Why did you stop? If you were seeing success in years one and two, but you have struggled in years three, four, and five, then wouldn't that suggest that you stopped doing what worked, rather than your "honeymoon phase" being over?

Again, Babs. Thanks for writing. Sincerely.

[PhotoNut 7]

DonnaB - Thank you. I really appreciated what you said. No forgiveness necessary my friend. None at all. *hugs*

I loved your analogy of telling young married couples that their honeymoon phase will be coming to an end. It was right on and exactly what I was thinking as well.

In response to the comments about being banded (a whole) six months...

A marriage that lasts 5 years is hardly considered a long term marriage, but being banded for 5 years is considered long term. Therefore, it is reasonable to think of someone who has been banded for 6 months as someone who has put in enough time to be familiar with how to be a bandster. Comparing that to newlyweds of 6 months, when a long term marriage could be 50 years or more is hardly a reasonable comparison.

[PhotoNut 7]

Oops, I forgot Letha. Hun, I have never seen you be anything less than loving and encouraging and honest. If someone claimed that your posts had insulted or discouraged anyone, I'd take fast exception with them. You're a gem, Letha. Sincerely.

[3loves 0]

The rest of this post is not specifically directed to GeezerSue but to all veteran bandsters who feel the need to 'protect' us newbies from our own expectations by cautioning us 'for our own good.' What we need is positive advise and support. That's not to say that we don't want the truth, we just want you to try to remember what it was like when you were full of hope and anticipation and give that truth in a friendly, supportive way. Is that asking for too much?

O.K. I don't get it.....what/who is this in reference to? I am preband and have had nothing but great support on this site. Maybe b/c I am preband I don't get this whole thing? Maybe I should stay out of it. I just don't understand. Perhaps this is a personal issue that should be addressed with the individuals involved. Have seasoned members really been offending newbies? If so, I have plum missed it.

Please know that this isn't about what was said to me. It isn't about my own feelings beyond the fact that it upsets me to see people who feel it necessary to offset another's accomplishments by attributing those accomplishments to a "phase" that will pass.

Perhaps Susan is taking a stand for newbies and offering this thread as a source of protection. :Banane20: One thing I do know for sure is that Susan has a heart of gold and would step to up for anyone in need. There must be more to this than I am seeing b/c I just don't get it. This thread shouldn't turn into newbies against veterans. This is a place for support regardless of where you are in your journey.