"Learning the Secret"

[GeezerSue 7]

The more I follow the different surgeries, the more I feel that there are people who "learn" what they need to learn, and others for whom the lesson just does NOT compute.

I have a friend who had the DS, lost a ton and then gained back about 20 pounds before she went off to WW. Before I had my revision, I asked her what she had learned abot herself that helped her keep her weight off. First she said, "Not a damned thing. This surgery hasn't taught me a damned thing." Then she changed her mind and said that it got her to a place where her excess weight was a managable number and she COULD run off to WW to lose 15 or 20 pounds, instead of going there having to lose 130. I have another DS friend who manages to eat the sandwich filling but only a little bit of the bread. She varies five pounds from her ideal weight.

I know of a person who has been a band role model. But when the saline has to be removed for whatever reason, and restriction is gone, she has been known to pack on thirty pounds in no time. Then there's Michelle, who is on top of things.

The same holds true for RnY people, so I imagine is applies to those who are without a working wls at any moment.

What's the difference? What makes some of us "learners" and the rest of us candidates for the short bus? What do we have to do to be ABLE to learn from whatever wls we have had?

Ideas anyone?

[Elisabethsew 50]

For anyone who has ever had a successful weight loss (and I am one of many) you'll hear it said that something "clicks" and when that happens, the person is able to follow WHATEVER weight loss plan they opt for.

The MOTIVATING factor (s) that lead to the "click" experience vary from person to person. For some it's health related, for some it's a painfully embarrassing situation... I'm sure we would have an unending list if we listed all the motivating factors.

Fortunately or unfortunately, we are never really able to relive past experiences. If you could experience the pain of childbirth everyday would you ever have a second child? You mind remembers the pain but it also protects you from being able to relive and actually experience that same pain.

It seems to be the same with weight loss. We are motivated to lose and the program works. We get a significant amount of weight off and people start noticing and we feel great and our self-esteem increases. For many of us, celebration is associated with favorite foods. We "treat" or "allow" ourselves to have one forbidden food. For some that's enough. For others it's a trigger that results in a downward weight loss spiral.

Obesity has genetic, social, physical, and psychological components. Because we are all unique individuals, no one really can ever have the same exact experience as another person. So, we do what we can do. We make choices, we decide on a weight loss plan, we form support groups, we share and we learn. Hopefully, we don't judge.

That's my 2 cents having been obese since childhood

[the best me 6]

"candidate for the short bus" LMBO! I used to work with adults with developmental disabilities that ran the gamut from profound to mild to borderline mental retardation and all associated diseases and disabilities, so the "short bus" means something-in oh so many ways- to me! I adore this population of folks with "special needs", perhaps because I relate?

With weight loss...there surely IS the "I can't help myself and do not have the capacity to do anything about it, no matter how frustrating it is and how much I'd like to change it...the desire alone is not enough" factor, that relates so well with "the short bus" analogy.

Capacity is the key word. For me, given the right tool/assistance/support certainly increases my capacity to succeed in the weight loss battle arena.

I do volunteer work with a gal named "Sharon" (not her real name) and help her with paying her bills and keeping her checkbook balanced, and budgeting her money. Without support, she's vulnerable to many many things in this world that can seperate her from her money. Credit card companies and magazine subscriptions, some idiot at the bus stop who becomes her "friend" and talks her into a trip to the bank with her checkbook. But the biggest risk for Sharon is her own impulsivity. She wants it, she buys it. Six months and $1000 later she can't pay her bills and has debt up to her ears. ??? Makes no sense, but her capacity to learn life's lessons is limited by a Mild Mental Retardation Diagnosis (among other things) and the cure is the right Support to help her through (me, or someone like me). Month after month after year, she now has what she needs, plus a little extra for vacations and special purchases. Her capacity for financial success is increased with the right support.

I suppose my band is my support system, here in this "short bus" analogy?

As for Learning the Secret...I'm not sure that I have, although I'm pleased so far with how the weight loss journey is going. I may always have a limited capacity, I just hope I always have my "appropriate support" to get me through.

Great thread, GeezerSue.

[paula 4]

Sue,

Wonderful thread.

Its definatley something to ponder...

Why can Michelle DO IT, and yet, others struggle to maintain?!?! Maybe she DOES struggle as much??

I like what Elizabeth said...

Because we are all unique individuals, no one really can ever have the same exact experience as another person.

which is what I was thinking.

I dont have anything interesting to add. But I do want to keep up with this thread.

[gordonfamily3 0]

This thread is great...

For me the "clicking" moment was when I decided to have surgery. I wasn't going to put myself through this for it not to wrok. Sure I have my peice of cake now but that is it..one very small peice. I have an aunt that gained over 20 pounds back since her RNY why because she didn't learn to eat right. She is paying for it now. I have another RNY friend that got down to 198 and is now 240...why again not thinking she would gain it back.

Elizabeth is right...everyone is different so no matter what surgery everyone is going to be different.

I feel that I have learned...my choices are better and for me it took having WLS. I know drastic but it works.

Ok just noticed that this is after band removal...So I would like to say that if for some reason I have to loose my band I would hope that I have learned. Now I go for a Water instead of soda...actually tried a sip of soda the other day and it was just nasty too sweet for me and it was diet. I would like to think I have learned something. I think my journal would keep me honest...well at least I hope it would.

Good luck to all the unbanded and even those w/ other surgeries now. Its still a struggle for all us who are over weight.

[shanna 0]

If you would have asked me a week ago if I've learned to eat differently now that I have the band I would have said "yes". Things were great - losing weight. I thought that I would be able to continue to eat that way even without the band.

Boy was I wrong...now that my band is gone, the answer is "no". Like GeezerSue's friend that had DS said "Not a damned thing. This surgery hasn't taught me a damned thing." At least her friend changed her mind about that, but not me...

[La_madam 20]

Sue Great thread...

Am I the Michelle you referred to in your post?? If I am just know I do struggle

for me the band was my tool to get off the excess weight. I no longer have it and it is not easy at times and I do struggle trust me I struggle but no to the point I will allow myself to spin out of control.. this is where my OCD comes into play for me. I have obsessive compulsive disorder in a big way..it is working to my advantage in keeping my weight off, my house is no longer clean and spotless but I am not gaining weight. I do not want to go back to where I was, so I do whatever I have to each day to not gain weight. I still try to eat like a bandster and not drink with my meals and wait an hour afterwards, I eat my Proteins first, the only difference for me is no "golfball or stuck feeling any more" and I find myself never full but in my mind I say to myself I dont have to be full to be satisfied. I have to be satisfied knowing I ate enough nutrients to survive on. Iam no longer living to eat ..I now eat to live. When I go out to eat I ask for a box right as my meal is served and put half away before I even take my first bite to cut my portion size in half..I have learned a few things I still apply today

It is not easy but I am determined to not be a statistic of gaining weight back after losing my band. I spent too much money to lose this weight and sold my convertible mustang to have this surgery. I do not want to be a failure in the eyes of my peers and my husband and family.

What motivates me is the compliments and praise I get from my peers. The cute clothing I now can buy in the normal size department, not plus size department, the fun I have, the more energy I have and how much happier I have been in years, all these things and my OCD help me to want so badly to keep this weight off. I do however find my self obsessing ( part of my OCD) about it unlike I did when I had my band.. to this day I have yet to go back to drinking sodas since I lost my band so that is something I have learned to live without but there are days when I do struggle, I can not lie about that! I told myself when I decided to have the band 2 years ago this week that I did not want to be fat at 40...I will be 40 in 2 weeks...so far I have managed to achieve that goal.

my brother did the Optifast diet and lost over 100 lbs in 9 months..he started 3 months after I had my band surgery...guess what, he has gained every last pound back and more. We live together and it breaks my heart to see him eat his way back to being obese. It is hard for him to see me maintain my weight loss and he can not. He has no control or will power, he spent all that money on weekly classes and meetings for what, he learned nothing or I should say he has not applied anything he learned at those classes to help him to maintain his weight loss, I know he learned plenty but what good is learning it if you are not applying it.

It has been almost 6 months since my band removal and I am still maintaining my loss, and still wearing my size 10 jeans but I struggle..I struggle I am not perfect, far from it, but I am determined.. plain and simple

[Shontel 3]

I love this thread. I have been thinking a lot about this very thing these past days, awating my surgery date. My mom and sis both had RNY surgeries. They have both lost about 130#'s a piece. I recently spent a day with my sis (who has gained back about 30#'s) I noticed that though she doesn't eat as much at one sitting, she eats ALL THE TIME. she still has the same habits as she did before (i.e. waking up at 3am to eat Cereal & milk) I noticed this becuase I have been trying to also notice my eating habits and how they will need to change with the band. I ate less than she did the day we spent together. I tried to pay attention to the taste of my food, and chew (although I'm still having trouble trying to chew chew chew...is it me or does food just taste different after you pulverize it from chewing 25 times...tee hee hee) I hope I will be one of the ones who 'gets it' Here's hoping everyone

[sunflower 0]

This thread is so true for many of us. Ultimatley its having self-control instead of being out of control right? It is the choice to live with food not for food. Not to play mind games with food or any type of surgery that we choose. We still have to deal with food and make the choice whether its to gain weight, not loose weight or feel sick because we were not connected with our right and wisdom to make the choice of having control and not being controlled! I stuggle with this everyday and I am still not at peace with it. I know someday I will get there and for now I just love being with all who have been there or are still working not to be there.

Good luck for today and make it a great one! :)

[sunflower 0]

By the way I would like to know what type of surgery DS is and how it works? Do you get the dump syndrome? Does your body absorb all the nutrients? If anyone could give me some light on this I would appreciate it.

[GeezerSue 7]

Sunflower, it is a far more invasive and you end up more rearranged. But there is no dumping syndrome, you have a larger stomach than RnY, an extremely high Diabetes CURE Rate, there are no foods you cannot eat and the long-term excess weight loss is usually cited as 70% or higher.

(Because there are those who don't believe there is a CURE for diabetes, I'm adding this link:

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/95/103237.htm

It doesn't show the whole breakdown in this article, but the last one I recall, the DS had a 90-something-% diabetes cure rate. I don't HAVE diabetes, but I was headed there.)

There ARE problems. There is a higher mortality rate...but a lot of that is due to "saving" this surgery for very, very MO people, who have a higher mortality rate in ANY surgery. My recovery was quite long.

And--instead of dumping or PB'ing--the DS ugly-bodily-reaction is unpleasant poop. If my RnY friends eat a box of Krispy Kremes, they dump. If my bandster friends (or many of them) eat a box of Krispy Kremes, they PB and/or barf up slime. If I eat a box of Krispy Kremes, many hours late or the next morning, I'll have odiferous poop and probaby four or five trips to the bathroom as I eliminate that disaster.

[Editing to add: No, you don't absorb all the nutrients...or all the fat. The saeme mechanism that makes it possible to eat bacon and eggs an lose weight and STILL cause the cholesterol level to drop, ALSO causes you to not absorb some of the good stuff. Just like RnY, you HAVE TO take supplements FOREVER!! (Right now, I take my three Bariatric Advantage chewable Multi Vitamins and four of their Calcium Citrate. BUT, I was taking Vitamins and Calcium before I had any surgery, so not a biggie. I'll have my six month labs in a few weeks and find out how I'm doing.)]

Here's the most informative site:

http://www.duodenalswitch.com/

[vinesqueen 2]

Very interesting thread Sue. Thanks for starting it.

I don't know if things have clicked for me, but I have yet to lose any real weight. I'm down 15 pounds in a year. And I find myself gaining weight on 1000 calories a day, or lose when I increase with days over 1600, lose at the same rate as when I went to sub 700 calories. I'm a conundrum.

I find myself slipping into drinking while I eat when I dine out. But I do it conciously, something that I choose to do. When I eat at home, I don't drink while I eat, and I almost always wait to drink after eating. Sometimes I need a small sip to clear my palate after some foods.

But this last year I've some some very painful soul searching. I've made some painful discoveries, things that I knew, but didn't want to look at. I had to go to painful places that I think were every bit as painful as the original pain. Sometimes we have to lance a boil before it will heal. I feel like I've lanced some painful psychic boils that were festering on my soul. Old wounds that never healed right, that had to be re-opened.

It's entirely possible that once I have a cure that it will turn out that I never needed the band to lose weight. Most folks with Cushing's drop their weight quite fast after they are cured. A few need to have extra help, but they are the exception to the rule.

I have gained my health back with the band. My asthma is all but cured, something that I was sure was going to kill me. And death by resperatory failure isn't terribly pleasant, I was on my way to a slow and lingering death. I spent far too long in hospitals and home with the only treatments being oxygen therapy and breathing treatments, still I would get out of breath trying to catch my breath. I worry that if I were to lose my band that lingering death would once again be my future.

I wish I had a certian bright future. But right now I'm faced with more questions. The promice of being thin following the band was false. For me anyway for now.

[Penni60 45]

Thanks Sue for starting this thread. Vines you are so insightful it is scary. LOL!!

When I was banded I was like a kid again. I had all these new places I could visit. My life had a new meaning. It was endless and I woke up every day wondering what adventures lie ahead for me.

After the band loss, I didnt' know what to expect. I was lost. I didn't know what to do. So I ate. I ate I ate I ate. Which was my old mantra preband. When I am nervous I eat. When I am happy I eat. When I am upset I eat. When I am bored I eat.

When I go into my kitchen and am just looking for something I don't know what I am trying to find something to eat. But if I really analyze this and think about it I will see that what I am looking for is my grandmother. She was my comfort and support and helped me make my life interesting. So I have to find my own way now. She has been gone for over 10 years now. So why can't I just get past this need to "FIND" her?

SIGH!! I eat to find my grandmother. Now that is one for the books. LOL!!!

[vinesqueen 2]

Penni, if you are looking that hard for her, she must have meant so much to you. And that is a wonderful thing.

I was raised by wolves, as you know. I never got the love a child should recieve from her mother. What I so desperately needed and wanted, my mother could not provide me, for what ever reason. So what I did was to become the mother I needed. To heal from my horrific childhood, I became the loving mother that I needed for my son. In being the mother I wanted to have as child for my son, I became that mother for myself.

Perhaps you can internalize all the best things about your grandmother, and become your own grandmother even as you are grandma. Give yourself the love you need.

[Penni60 45]

Crystal I just love you. LOL!! And yes she was a very special lady. Since my mother worked alot and was a single mother as well, my grandmother was my caregiver. She taught me morals and values and respect and all the things you learn growing up. She taught me how to take care of others. She was a driving force behind me becoming a RN later in life.

I am a grandma now and I just wish I was closer to my grandkids so I could teach them all the things she taught me. I once heard a saying from someone that said, "Everyone needs a wise older woman in their life." I don't have one of those now. Both my grandmothers are gone. So I gotta find a wise older woman to share my life with.

Thanks guys for listening. It is keeping me from eating the house. LOL!!