This Is A Wake Up Call!

["Just" Paul 1]

EVERYONE STOP>>>:eek:

OK, now Breathe...

Better?

I think this discussion has been misinterpreted. Let's start with the fact that it is not personal, geez, I wish we'd all be adult enough to realize that nothing in this discussion is an attack on another. Stop thinking it is, and if you can't stop... move on to another thread. OK?:grouphug:

Now. What is the point here? It is that many folks, despite all the work and finance associated with getting a band, continue to work against it, and fight it. No this is not the same thing as a person having an occasional treat, treats are fine if they are occasional. Period. This is about the folks who are constantly looking for ways to "eat around" the band... grazing is one good example, eating too much and getting sick is another, etc.

The band is part of a process of weight loss, it is not magic, it is not malabsorptive, it is a tool to help limit the VOLUME of food intake... no the quality of food, or the type of food... simply the VOLUME.

I have been reading a lot of posts lately, and not responding out of a bit of frustration. I gat frustrated when I see folks post their daily meals, and everyday... no occasionally, but everyday consists of sugared Cereal, tacos, hamburgers, KFC, steaks and baked potatoes with the works, chips, Cookies etc. Once again, and I do feel the need to repeat this, I AM NOT AGAINST TREATS, they are fine on an occasional basis... BUT NOT EVERYDAY, FOR EVERY MEAL!!!

Many of the same folks doing this, complain about slow, or no weight loss, duh! You eat too many calories, you do not lose. Simple. The band does not limit CALORIE intake...You need to do that.

Back on the thread about the eroded bandsters, you know the one where folks got pissed at the doctors and all... I mentioned how the band is part of a program. I am not going to rehash that here, go on back and read it, but I think part of my point is really valid here:

Kare mentioned in her well-written rebuttal to my statement that not everyone needs their band "program", and that some folks have the experience to just need the tool... I disagree. I see many folks on this thread backing up the point I am about to make... they say that they have trouble breaking old habits, it is hard to change, they aren';t able to make good choices all the time... hmmm... this sounds to me like this person may benefit from some counseling. Yes, counseling, not necessaryily a shrink, but maybe a nutritionist, who will help them tio make better choices on the road, and exercise guy to help them find more fun ways to melt off the pounds, or yes, maybe that shrink. I see the poeple here saying, gee, I started off good, but got off the bandwagon, I haven't lost in a long time... that is because you are only looking at the band as part of a diet... it needs to be a part of your program, and yes to all the naysayers, a PROGRAM FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. It is not the same as any other diet you've ever been on... this is completely different, and past experience in dieting is not enough... if it was, you would not have needed the band.

I'm personally disturbed by the number of people on this board, and boards like it, that get this procedure, and don't know what to do next... what do I eat, when do I get fills, etc. Do not get the band until you have ALL the information on what to do before, during and after. It is OK to look for support and ideas on a board like this, but you should not be on here because you have no idea what is next, AFTER you got the surgery.

Sorry to go on and on.

I hope no one took anything personal, it was not meant to be so.

This is a LIFE change. Stop looking at it as a temporary thing. Get rid of the old diet mentality that when you reach goal, you can go back to "eating normally". Make a complete change, and if you cannot do it yourself, get help... real help... talk to a professional or professionals. That is how we all can succeed.

If anyone is pissed about my statements, I will recuse myself from further postings.

Much ablidged.

Paul

[kimalicious 5]

Everyone is different. I weighed the calories the other day for lunch eating a kids meal from a local burger joint. Well, I can eat half the cheeseburger and half the fries (which is all I can get down) and have only used 350 calories in that meal. For me, I have eaten this way for 27 years. The habit and addiction will not stop overnight. I do still try to push it when I want something bad enough. I may only get two bites down but sometimes I do push it. I am not hungry by any means but like a drug I have to have it. I have not been able to eat pizza since my last fill, but don't think I haven't tried. I am very picky and would rather not eat anything than to eat something that doesn't taste good. I eat way less than I would have ever eaten pre band, but if I eat that 350 calorie meal I spoke of earlier I will not lose weight. I love food and like previous posters I get depressed when I can't have them. To me it is a drug, unfortunately unlike drugs I have to keep eating to stay alive, I can't go cold turkey and not eat at all like people can with drugs and alcohol. I struggle everyday and will for the rest of my life over food choices. If you aren't struggling with food and you are obese then you are not human. Just my opinion.

["Just" Paul 1]

But Kim, this is what I am talking about...

Go see a dietician, they might be able to show you how to make delicious (for your taste buds) foods, or a professional chef.

If you are struggling with your food, then maybe a Psychiatrist might help you to get to some of the issues you have with eating.

I'm not talking about stopping anything overnight, I'm talking about getting the help you need. You got the band, right? Then why is everyone so afraid to look at the rest of the picture, that there may be more help you need AFTER the band? Is that so bad? To admit you need help? Rather than just accepting it, FIGHT IT... If it makes you depressed then a professional just might be the way to get past it...

If you went through everything to get the band, why would you give up on yourself now? You can beat it, but it requires help.

Get the help! Get with a PROGRAM, not a diet, not a surgery... a PROGRAM! I know you can do it!

[JanetC 2]

I can't really speak to the "cheating" on the band, since I'm not banded yet. But I can say that I'm weak. I can't even follow the pre-surgery diet for 3 weeks. Change that. I couldn't even follow it for ONE DAY!!! Augh!!!

I have, however, decreased the amount of calories & increased the amount of Protein... and hopefully will have the required 10 pounds off by my Thursday appointment. (**Gulp!**)

That being said, I have ZERO will power. I've dieted my entire life... and finally gave up. I decided to just accept that I was fat & get over it. **Sigh**

Then someone offered me the hope of The Band. Ya know, I think I almost hate it! I'd given up hope & was just waiting to eat myself into the grave. Now I have hope back & I don't know that I'm ready or willing to deal with it! Twisted, but true.

Anyway, I'm getting off point, sorry, lol. Right now I'm hanging onto my "diet", such as it is, through shear will power. I'm hoping that I make it to next Wednesday & my banding.

If I can make it that far, I'm hoping that the fear of hurting my healing stomach will get me through the first 6 weeks until my first fill.

Then I hope that fear of PB'ing or sliming will get me through until I feel restriction. Because if the fear doesn't win... **sigh**... have I mentioned I have NO will power? :eek:

I am hoping that I can learn to eat with the band & not fight it... and make good food choices most of the time. Our surgeon says that they hope for us to make good choices 95% of the time. Woot!! 5% room for error (read that cheating!). :grouphug: I think I can live with that!! :pray2:

On an interesting side note: Have you watched the naturally skinny eat? They almost always START with the best stuff... and leave the stuff they don't like for last, so they don't mind stopping. Pretty much the opposite of what I do!

All that being said, I appreciate you all... both sides of the issue. Thanks for letting us all air our pains, hurts, fears & angers. It's great to have a sounding board!!

[banded_for_life 2]

Ok, time to add my two cents: For me personally, my band became my instant willpower. I feel like like Superband, able to ignore tall mounds of food in one glance...or something like that...lol. It was able to let me start making better choices for myself...it also forced me to do that in a way. I have my kids and my husband depending on me to make better choices for myself and them. Do we still go out to Mcdonalds..yes for the kids we do about once a month now (there is a chemical ingredient in the fries for addiction I swear there is.) But we used to go up to 4 times a month sometimes maybe more. I have done very well with my band I think. I eat healthier than I ever have in my life...I have also learned about Fiber more than I ever wanted too...but that is the beauty of the band...you now have to think about these things. Do I eat bad every once in a while...heck yeah! But the very next meal I am eating the bander way...the right way. I also have some piece of chocolate everyday...a life without chocolate is no life....TO ME!!! I am struggleing right now with not having to clean up my plate. Take for instance last night...I ate the right foods all day long yesterday and last night I made fajitas. I bought a preroasted chicken and stripped the meat. I had a 1/2 c on a small lowcarb, whole wheat tortilla. It wasn't what I ate that made me angry at myself, is was that I wouldn't listen to my band say..hey I am full stop eating you dummy. I was like compelled to eat the whole thing, when I should have stopped at 3/4s of the way. Then I had to spend 30 mins in extreme discomfort until it had worked on down. That is the learning that I have to work on...listening to my body and responding to the signals accordingly. We are together in this journey, but it is still a personal struggle for us all. We all have our demons to deal with and it is always nice to come here and know that we have the support to deal with that demon no matter what it is. Signed SuperBand! :-)

[Jill_S 1]

There are people for whom pizza does hold attraction post-banding; surgery doesn't magically make that go away.

Oh, no doubt. I didn't mean to imply that it did. I can only speak from my experience, because my experience is all I have.

I still look longingly at cheese. I love cheese. Cheese is like nirvana to me. But I know that if I eat it, I will pay for it, either in weight gain or in pain from the band. Does that mean I never eat it? No. It just means it's a treat, and not something I'd eat often, or much of. I don't even buy my favorites (salami-cheese or cracker barrel extra sharp) because it goes to waste. There's no sense spending 3 bucks for a package of cheese that I'm going to eat less than 1 ounce of before it goes bad.

This band surgery doesn't make *anything* magically go away. I don't think I, or anyone else here implied that it does. As I've said a few times, you have to work with the band. If you don't, you're just killing time.

And for many of us, eating "badly" doesn't always mean paying a price we are unwilling to pay, so why not do it from time to time? That's where I am, and happy to be here. :biggrin1:

I wasn't speaking in absolutes. No one - and I mean no one - eats perfectly from the time their band gets put in, until they reach their goal weight.

Working with the band doesn't necessarily mean forcing yourself to give up everything you love and live a life of deprivation and denial. It's about learning, and I think we can all agree that takes time.

Working with the band doesn't mean forcing anything for everyone.

Working with the band, for ME, means giving up many of the foods I stuffed in my mouth without really tasting, enjoying or thinking about before. It means stopping when I feel full. It means that pizza is a treat, not a weekly dinner. It means that if I am committed to seeing the scale continue to drop, I can't eat many of the things I enjoyed before /shrug. I don't consider it deprivation. And I do occasionally (seriously occasionally - once every few months?) indulge in something that I enjoyed weekly before. But in much smaller portions and in much fewer instances.

Really. I'm not being preachy. I know that sometimes fast food is the only option for folks. I know that sometimes, your body is screaming for ice cream. I know that sometimes it pays to give in to a craving in a small way rather than over do it by putting it off.

But I also know that the less I give in, the better I feel. And right now, at this stage of my banding progress, I'd rather feel better right now than order from Pizza Hut because I'm too tired to cook.

It's a personal thing. Everyone has to do it *their way*.

Banding: The Burger King of Weight Loss Surgery. (Have it your way!)

[MeganA 35]

I think sometimes people fight hardest against what they fear the most is in them, too.

I have found that compassion is my most important weapon with the band. Compassion for me and my struggle to overcome and manage my illness (obesity) and the struggle that others face every day.

Photonut, I want to comment on one thing that you said...I can never figure out how to directly quote someone so sorry if I get this wrong...you said that you don't have time to pamper yourself anymore.

I'm going to take a leap here and guess that you never pampered yourself about being overweight. You probably were like many of us here who beat ourselves up over every trip to McDonalds, Applebees, our own kitchen table.

Pampering is not the same as indulgance, to me anyway. Pampering is what I do now to myself...I am kind in my thoughts and actions about myself. My tapes no longer call myself a fat slob, a weak disgusting pig, a loser with a pretty face. I no longer say I will never amount to anything...that I am a bad person because I ate something "bad". No food is off limits because food isn't the problem. I have made a whole big frozen pizza and had two peices and gave the rest to my dogs. Big deal. Normal weight people eat pizza. And cheeseburgers. And french fries. These foods are not the issue. It's our attitudes about them.

Be kind to yourself. Pay attention to the things that you tell yourself in your mind. This is where you could put your anger and frustration energy.

The demons are not food. They are within us and must be fought from within.

But now you have a tool inside of you made of plastic that, filled to the right level, can be your greatest weapon.

Megan

[HeatherGurl 0]

OK, time for me to put my 2 cents in...

I agree that everyone needs to quit taking things so personally when the lovely lady that started this thread started out by saying that it wasn't directed at anyone in particular.

I myself have stopped reading the daily posts of people that aren't losing weight and what they are eating. Gimme a break, some of the stuff these people are eating just completely shocks me. And then they bitch about not losing weight???

I am 3 months out and FINALLY started working out like a demon. I am eating what I think is healthy (low carb) and it is working great for me.

I too, have a hard time understanding why we push the band, but I know it is because of our disease. I did try and eat pizza one time, I was going to eat one piece, THANK GOD, it came right back up and I will NEVER touch the stuff again. I have not had a hamburger in 3 months!!! I have never even tried.

I completely agree with BigPaul in that we aren't just dieting to get to a goal weight and then we can have everything. All the weight will come back then.

This is a lifestyle change and we must eat correctly to be healthy.

If you don't like what I have to say, good for you!!! :eek:

[rorysmom 0]

big paul,

i totally agree with you.

janet,

have you considered talking with a professional about your food addiction?

my aunt said that the fact that the band makes her stop eating causes her to be more introspective and figure out why she wants to overeat. the physical restriction forces the mental and emotional issue.

[cmr 0]

What gives any of us the right to sit in judgement of what anyone does or does not do. None of us are perfect, that's why we are here.

[JanetC 2]

janet,

have you considered talking with a professional about your food addiction?

Yep. Been there done that. Tried it all. Therapy, hypnosis, acupunture. I try to keep an open mind, lol, which means a lot of, um, interesting attempts, haha. I've often been successful at losing the weight, just never successful at maintaining. To tell you the truth, I'm just tired of it all & am hoping the band lets me just eat less and not obsess about food all the time.

But, like BigPaul, we signed up for a "Program". For one year, we have unlimited nutritionist visits, unlimited fills, quarterly physical therapy appointments, monthly support group meetings & bi-weekly (bi-monthly? 2 times a month, lol :guess) psychological group sessions.

And the truth is that nothing they've said so far is new to me... but I'm choosing to hear it as though it were new, and to take it out & examine it & perhaps finally come to term with stuff & get on with it.

No guarantees though. I've failed enough at weightloss to not want to set myself up for more mental anguish. **shrug** Honestly, if the band just keeps me from gaining, I will have won!

[PhotoNut 7]

*takes a deep breath* I have to confess that I am sitting here overwhelmed and in tears by all of these posts. Thank you all for sharing such deep and honest feelings - even those of you who have been angered by this thread. If it has made you stop and think, if it causes you to pause before you give in to the same demons that have beaten you down for so long, then I have done what I hoped to do.

I too had given up on living. My feet and ankles were so swollen I could hardly stand to walk on them. In fact, I didn't walk, I waddled. Still do. My hips, back, hands, neck.. everything hurt. My double chin covered my neck completely. I watched in horror as I saw ME being swallowed up by this blob of fat, and eventually I couldn't see me at all anymore.

I heard about the band about a year ago. It was a fluke, landing on Anne Wilson's (from the group Heart) site about her lapband. I remember thinking, 'Oh my god. Could this be something that can truly save me?' After a year of researching it, praying and hoping for some way to be able to have such a gift, a series of events fell into place and the next thing I know.. here I am. Banded. My prayers were answered.

As I started into the pre-testing phase, Dawg and I promised to stay away from fast food. Everyday I was plagued with the thoughts and smells (yes, smells) of Cracker Barrel's roast beef dinner. I would wake up in the middle of the night and I could swear I could smell the roast beef. I was almost in tears over the mental torment. The day I went to see the nutritionist, I dropped Dawg off at work and I knew where I was going.. Mc Donald's. I fought it all the way there, as I pulled in, as I drove through, as I ordered the Breakfast biscuit, and as I ate the damn thing, I fought it. I swallowed down every bite, even tho it was not even as good as my brain had been telling me it would be. And with every bite, I swallowed tears and self loathing. I wanted the band so much. I wanted desperately to be saved. To live. And here I was, on my way finally - with a damn sausage egg biscuit in my hand. *sighs*

That was the last time I have allowed myself to be weak. Have I wanted pizza? Oh yes. Much the same way I fought the Cracker Barrel dinner, I have smelled that pizza and craved it with everything inside me. But I knew that if I allowed myself -- permitted myself -- gave my self leeway for excuses -- opened the door an invited in those demons yet again, that I would have lost the battle in my head. I would have admitted that this is a losing battle that will never be won and I can not afford to do that if I want to live.

I know how much food means to all of us. It's why we are here. You can lable it what you want, you can point to what you want as the cause of the problem. And you can forgive yourself for every time you screw up. But the facts remain. Our bodies don't care what caused or causes it. Our bodies don't care how many times our heads and hearts forgive ourselves. If we continue to abuse ourselves, there will be a price to pay. And that price scares the hell out of me.. not just for me, but for YOU (points at each person reading this). I only want each of you to be free. That is what prompted this thread. Not malice, or snobbery, or judgemental finger pointing.

God bless.

[donali 57]

...Pampering is not the same as indulgance, to me anyway. Pampering is what I do now to myself...I am kind in my thoughts and actions about myself. My tapes no longer call myself a fat slob, a weak disgusting pig, a loser with a pretty face. I no longer say I will never amount to anything...that I am a bad person because I ate something "bad". No food is off limits because food isn't the problem. I have made a whole big frozen pizza and had two peices and gave the rest to my dogs. Big deal. Normal weight people eat pizza. And cheeseburgers. And french fries. These foods are not the issue. It's our attitudes about them...

(((Megan))) Boy, I still get choked up when I think about how I used to talk to myself. Megan, I had no idea you were using MY tapes... :eek:

My take on all of this:

1. Fat is a SYMPTOM of something else. It may be a biological/genetic/social/physical/mental/emotional/nutritional/exercise problem, or some complicated combination of all or some of those things. FAT is the result of some thing/multiple things being out of whack.

2. The band (with a correct fill level), at best, treats only TWO of the multiple possible causes of obesity:

a) insatiable physical hunger

:grouphug: excess quantity

It does not address the fear of change.

It does not address the physcial addiction some may have to their body's chemical reaction to certain foods.

It does not address the emotional reasons people eat.

It does not address habit.

It does not address convenience.

It does not address poor planning.

It does not address social pressure to eat what everyone else is eating.

It does not address the need/want/desire to "fit in".

Remember someone making the observation that even within WLS groups there seems to be a hierarchy? The thought that all people go into WLS with the same expectations is an example of that.

Anyone know a slender person who "Just doesn't get it."? How frustrating it is to try and explain WHY we can't stop eating, WHY we choose less nutritious foods, HOW we got to be so fat? Lots of times we don't know ourselves. We feel SO different, so alone. THEN we get into a group of obese people, and we think FINALLY! People who really understand the struggle. And THEN... We find out... WE'RE STILL different!!

Not everyone came into this with the same strengths, weaknesses or challenges, and thinking that we did is not better than slender people thinking everyone should be slender because THEY are.

I think one of our biggest disservices is the attitude: "If I can do it, anyone can." Sometimes it's meant in a supportive way, sometimes it's meant in a derogatory way. Either way, though, it just is not true. It seems like it should be, but it's not. We are all individuals, and NO one, and I mean NO one can possibly know every single factor in an individual's obesity (or anything else, for that matter - obesity is just the topic of the day.) Even the individual themself rarely knows or understands every contributing factor to their obesity.

For those who are struggling, more support would be indicated. BUT - not everyone will respond well to that support. Not everyone will seek it, or accept it. Why??? We'll probably never know.

The best that we can hope for is that we will find someone else whose day to day challenges seem the most like ours, and hope they can give us a little insight to our demons, and vice versa. Not every obese person is going to have good advice for us personally - I mean something that really resonates to us. I try to read every thing I can, looking for the little nuggets that I think I could really apply to ME. I try to file all of it away for future reference, so that even if it's not something that helps me, maybe it will help someone else.

There are other boards that are absolutely, positively intolerant of those who make less nutritious choices, however rarely. I know lots of people who are afraid to post on those boards, because they know they will get slammed. Here I think it is a little less intimidating to post that we're still struggling with certain demons. Almost always there are good supportive posts for those people, with hints and ideas on how to "slay the dragon" - for today, at least. Still others support by posting, "Me too. Let me know when you find the answer." Still others scratch their heads in amazement, but are kind enough to not post to that thread with their true feelings, or post tempered with humor. lol

For me, banding wasn't about STOPPING my less nutritious choices, but moderating them. Prior/post banding, it is almost impossible for me to stop eating if there is still food, particularly certain kinds of food. Why don't I stay away from that kind of food altogether????? Good question. I keep thinking I can moderate. With the band that was true! Post-band is better than pre-band, but I am still not able to stop before I have consumed too many calories, whether it's nutritious or less-nutritious.

I don't think there is a simple answer to why people continue to try to eat the way they did pre-band. Some people seriously weren't ready emotionally for the changes, some people don't want to make the changes, some people are going for moderation, some are learning as they go.

It's cool how different we are, huh? :clap2:

[MeganA 35]

((((Donali))))

I learn something from you with every post.

Love,

Megan

[PhotoNut 7]

2. The band (with a correct fill level), at best, treats only TWO of the multiple possible causes of obesity:

a) insatiable physical hunger

:eek: excess quantity

It does not address the fear of change.

It does not address the physcial addiction some may have to their body's chemical reaction to certain foods.

It does not address the emotional reasons people eat.

It does not address habit.

It does not address convenience.

It does not address poor planning.

It does not address social pressure to eat what everyone else is eating.

It does not address the need/want/desire to "fit in".

Exactly why Big Paul keeps emphasizing the importance of a complete program in order to succeed.

I think one of biggest disservices is the attitude: "If I can do it, anyone can." Sometimes it's meant in a supportive way, sometimes it's meant in a derogatory way. Either way, though, it just is not true. It seems like it should be, but it's not.

I believe I was misunderstood when I said that I believed that others here who have had WLS had the same attitude about this as me. I didn't mean that if I can do it anyone can. I meant I thought it was a deeply serious emotional and intellectual decision and commitment to saving our lives.

For those who are struggling, more support would be indicated. BUT - not everyone will respond well to that support.

The best that we can hope for is that we will find someone else whose day to day challenges seem the most like ours, and hope they can give us a little insight to our demons, and vice versa.

I try to read every thing I can, looking for the little nuggets that I think I could really apply to ME. I try to file all of it away for future reference, so that even if it's not something that helps me, maybe it will help someone else.

This is so true and very wise advice. While some may need to link arms with another to have a buddy to walk along with, others may need a kick in the pants. And, likewise, some are gifted in gentle support, while others are take a more straight forward tough-love approach. Like you said, it's best to read it all and pick out what works best for you. And please, try not take offense to things which are said that might be helping someone else.

I don't think there is a simple answer to why people continue to try to eat the way they did pre-band. Some people seriously weren't ready emotionally for the changes, some people don't want to make the changes, some people are going for moderation, some are learning as they go.

So right again. There is no simple answer. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't ask the questions. This is how we learn. And knowledge is power.

Thanks for your input Donali. It was, as always, given with thoughfult insight and a truly kind heart. *hugs*