Should we force our children to eat healthy foods?

[Birinak 19]

So, those of you who have been following the other thread ("My kids just don't like vegetables!") will know that it's now been locked. A disagreement arose there between two posters, one expressing her difficulties broadening the diet of her naturally picky-eater and the other responding that the concept of picky-eaters is a myth and that the child's attitude is the fault of the parent. As a side note, the poster with the picky-eater was nice enough to offer an apology to the entire thread for the ensuing argument. Now, I don't believe that she actually owes anyone an apology, not least because of the fact that these threads belong to all of us (not only the thread-starter). However, this is a new thread about a connected topic. This isn't meant to be a thread for the continuation of the personal quarrel between the two posters. If anyone would like to respond, please try to refrain from bringing up the subject of who was right and wrong in the previous dispute, who behaved poorly, who owes whom an apology etc. Anyone eager to share their opinions on those matters is welcome to leave comments on my profile page, or to begin a private conversation with others concerned. This thread is solely for a discussion of philosophical differences in the approach to feeding children healthy foods.

Bandsters, we all are trying to change our own approach to food for the better. Those bandsters with children are also faced with the exhausting task of changing their family's dietary habits as well.

The topic of this thread is: should parents physically or emotionally force their children to eat healthy foods? I don't mean to ask whether parents even have the right to try to influence their children in healthy-eating. I believe that they do have a natural authority over their children, for the children's own good. It is the parent's concern when a child is doing something wrong and it is their place to attempt to correct the child's detrimental behaviour (or do you disagree?). I doubt that most of us will disagree with that. Where our opinions may diverge is to what extent this authority exists and what strategies overstep the bounds of this authority.

Those of you who've read the previous thread will know that I believe that bandsters, while avoiding unhealthy foods for themselves, are wrong to continue to purchase bad foods for their children (soda, pop-tarts, fruit-loops, kool-aid, chicken nuggets, white bread etc). "If it's not healthy for you, it's not healthy for them!" I also believe that most, but not all, of the North American children who hate veggies and fruit do so because their own parents have negative attitudes toward healthy foods.

But what do you do about the naturally picky-eater? Or is there even such a thing? What if your child refused to even try new foods? Some follow that parents should force the child to sit at the dinner table until they've finished their food. Others argue that parents should respect at least a limited sense of a child's own autonomy and that it's wrong to force the child, physically or emotionally, to eat even a single bite of broccoli when it's against their will. Some will say that picky-eaters only exist because parents allow children free-reign over what they eat or make too many alternatives available to their child. Others will respond that a parent has no choice but to offer alternatives lest their child starves, and that, in fact, there is such a thing as the naturally picky-eater. Further, they argue that even if they could force their children to eat certain foods, these actions would only upset the child and, thereby, contribute to a negative psychological association with healthy foods in the child's mind. Also, is your strategy of broadening your child's diet immediate or gradual? In other words, do you try to introduce veggies and fruit over time, or do you expect that the child try at least a bite or all of each new food the first time that you offer it?

You don't need to answer all of the posed questions or address all issues mentioned. You can even pose relevant questions of your own and bring up issues related to the topic that I haven't even considered. This is just to get the ball rolling, whatever the direction it ends up taking. Everyone has their own perspective on the topic and I'm looking forward to hearing it. Don't be afraid to express an unpopular opinion; we don't have to agree with each other (that'd be too boring!). It may be difficult at times, but let's try to share our views with civility.

[Humming Bird 275]

I do agree with many of your points.

I think part of the problem today may be that both parents have to work and our lifestyle is so fast paced. McDonalds is so fast and easy. I know in many cases food that is less healthy is also cheaper.

IMHO, I don't think it's a good idea to make kids clean their plate before they can leave the table. I have seen this happen and feel it leads to obesity as well. I do think there should be balanced meals offered and less junk in the house. I don't think there is anything wrong with having things like birthday cake, but have also seen households that offer this type of stuff too often.

I think a topic like this may ruffle a few feathers because you/we are telling people how to parent. I'm not saying that anything said was wrong in any way. I'm just saying that even I had a sense of "who is that person telling me how to parent?"

My youngest child is older than the OP and I have a grandchild. I do think we all need to take a look at how unhealthy we may eat and teach our kids. It's just a touchy subject when we try to tell others how to parent.

[Birinak 19]

I do agree with many of your points.

I think part of the problem today may be that both parents have to work and our lifestyle is so fast paced. McDonalds is so fast and easy. I know in many cases food that is less healthy is also cheaper.

IMHO, I don't think it's a good idea to make kids clean their plate before they can leave the table. I have seen this happen and feel it leads to obesity as well. I do think there should be balanced meals offered and less junk in the house. I don't think there is anything wrong with having things like birthday cake, but have also seen households that offer this type of stuff too often.

I think a topic like this may ruffle a few feathers because you/we are telling people how to parent. I'm not saying that anything said was wrong in any way. I'm just saying that even I had a sense of "who is that person telling me how to parent?"

My youngest child is older than the OP and I have a grandchild. I do think we all need to take a look at how unhealthy we may eat and teach our kids. It's just a touchy subject when we try to tell others how to parent.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. One thing though: I don't think you quite understand my intention by this post. This thread is not for every person to tell others how wrong other parents are in their choices; this is for sharing your own philosophy on parenting, telling us why you believe it to be effective or why you came to this approach, and for telling us about your strategies for getting your child to eat healthy. Now, many topics involve opposing views, but that doesn't mean that we should avoid discussing them. In fact, it's actually those topics that we all agree on that need the least discussion. Don't you think? Just like in the academia, people should be able to maturely express even a diametrically opposed argument without it leading to insults and hurt feelings. It is up to the commenter to choose the phrasing of their opinions wisely, and it's up to the reader not to take personally what was only the commenter's general opinion and not a personal attack.

Also, if you could expand on the relevance of my age to the quality or (im)maturity of my post or opinions, please do. I mean this sincerely. For the most part, I've posed questions. Any opinions I mentioned were only my personal thoughts. I've emphasized that I want to hear what others (of various experiences, educational backgrounds, lifestyles, and ages) have to say on the issue, rather than just spout my own theories as absolute facts and leave it at that.

[Humming Bird 275]

I agree with all you just said. Your age has nothing to do with it. I was just saying it was a natural feeling I had as a parent who has been parenting longer than you have been alive. You do bring up some great points and it is something we should all think about. No harm intended.

[nu2ywg 4]

My kids are not very picky. As babies and young children, they all ate everything I offered them, every single thing. Now as they are older (10, 8 and 2) they are pickier. For meal times, I don't make them finish their plates and they can still have dessert if they don't. However, the vegetable is the most important item on the plate and they must finish that part even if they don't finish the meat or pasta/rice/potato and they must have half of their salad. If it's a vegetable or meat they don't like, I usually draw a line through the middle and make them eat half for the sake of the nutrients. To be honest, I have very little argument with that...I guess they are fine with the compromise. If it's a new item I'm serving, they must try it. I think it's crap to say you don't like something if you've never tried it. My mother does that...at age 60+ she discovered she actually liked sweet potatoes after saying for all my life she hated them and making ridiculously childish noises when the subject was even brought up. I had to ask her to refrain from that type of behaviour for fear of my children modelling it.

Anyway, my kids don't really fit into the picky eaters category so I'm not sure my response will be enlightening at all but I thought I'd contribute anyway.

[Birinak 19]

My kids are not very picky. As babies and young children, they all ate everything I offered them, every single thing. Now as they are older (10, 8 and 2) they are pickier. For meal times, I don't make them finish their plates and they can still have dessert if they don't. However, the vegetable is the most important item on the plate and they must finish that part even if they don't finish the meat or pasta/rice/potato and they must have half of their salad. If it's a vegetable or meat they don't like, I usually draw a line through the middle and make them eat half for the sake of the nutrients. To be honest, I have very little argument with that...I guess they are fine with the compromise. If it's a new item I'm serving, they must try it. I think it's crap to say you don't like something if you've never tried it. My mother does that...at age 60+ she discovered she actually liked sweet potatoes after saying for all my life she hated them and making ridiculously childish noises when the subject was even brought up. I had to ask her to refrain from that type of behaviour for fear of my children modelling it.

Anyway, my kids don't really fit into the picky eaters category so I'm not sure my response will be enlightening at all but I thought I'd contribute anyway.

This thread is definitely not just for those parents with picky-eaters. In fact, it's not even just for parents. Everyone is welcome to fully comment and to vote in the poll (about what they would do if/when they have children, what they do for their younger siblings or nieces/nephews, would they do when introducing new foods to their non-picky children etc).

You mention some interesting strategies that never occurred to me (drawing a line in the plate). Of course, some parents with truly picky-eaters, unlike your children, will find difficulty with compromises too. I really agree with encouraging others to refrain from speaking negatively about new or healthy foods in front of your child. There's no reason that another adult should express how much they think veggies are gross in their presence. I can't see the benefit of that.

[amberakamom 13]

I think it depends on the kid. All 3 of my kids love a lot of fruits and veggies. If you ask my 5 year old daughter what her favorite foods are, she will name several fruits and veggies. 2 of my 3 kids will try something if I tell them they have to, and 90% of the time they end up liking it. My 10 year old is not your average kid. He has ADD, and I suspect SID. He eats a very limited diet and making him try new foods is not a battle I choose to have. I always put a little on his plate but I don't MAKE him try it. He does like some fruits and veggies, so I'm fine with it. We have always kept healthy food in our house, and very little sugar, so it's not foreign to them at all.

So my final answer is- "Normal" kids, yes, I make them try it. And if you don't have junk in the house, then not eating healthy really isn't an option.

[Humming Bird 275]

After I was reading this thread I got an ad in my email from a sort of fast food deli type place. The subject line of the email was "Did someone say bacon?" OMG, those sandwiches look so darn good! It made me think of all the ads that were mentioned in the other thread. All of us, including kids, are seeing way too many of these types of ads. I guess I can't blame the people trying to sell products, but geez, when they try to make the stuff sound healthy it is wrong.

[Birinak 19]

After I was reading this thread I got an ad in my email from a sort of fast food deli type place. The subject line of the email was "Did someone say bacon?" OMG, those sandwiches look so darn good! It made me think of all the ads that were mentioned in the other thread. All of us, including kids, are seeing way too many of these types of ads. I guess I can't blame the people trying to sell products, but geez, when they try to make the stuff sound healthy it is wrong.

Yes, it definitely drives me nuts. We can't really do anything about the fact that kids are exposed to these campaigns, but we can make them less susceptible to their influence. I taught my brother from a young age to view advertising with cynicism. When he was younger and we were watching commercials, I'd often ask him to pinpoint the specific manipulation tactic used, the target group, or any borderline falsehoods. It really works to raise their awareness and they can understand these concepts at a very young age. He judges products on their true value to him and not on the brand or advertising power behind it.

[Rainydayz 3]

Personally I wish junk food advertising were illegal! They can't advertise cigarettes on tv anymore so why not ban bad food?

But I think that modeling is probably the best teacher. I didn't vote in the poll because for us it changes per the situation. If the child has not been eating vegetables then I might lay down a rule that says he gets no Desserts or tv time until he eats his vegetables. But if he's been eating well and he's just not in the mood for whatever I prepared then I might let him slide. It's never an all or nothing thing. Just like all of parenting it's an exhausting moment-by-moment dynamic process. I would never presume to tell another parent how to feed their child. After all I'm on an obesity surgery board, so I obviously have a lot to learn about eating myself right?

I'm striving to improve myself and make the foods available in my home healthier for all of us. And having my children see me learn and put so much work into becoming healthy is I believe the best teacher.

[Birinak 19]

I would never presume to tell another parent how to feed their child. After all I'm on an obesity surgery board, so I obviously have a lot to learn about eating myself right?

Thanks for your post. Again, the purpose of this thread, at least my intention in creating it, is to ask everyone what their own individual philosophy to introducing new foods is, how they came to the approach, and why they find it effective (along with whatever other topics come up). These questions are not presumptuous in any sense nor is expressing an individual opinion on what works best for you or what strategies best fit your personal philosophy.

As far as having a lot to learn about eating--if I take your statement literally, as only speaking for yourself when you say "I"--I'd say that many of us have already learned all that we need to know about eating at least much healthier than we were formerly. No one here is suggesting ways to reach maximum health. No human knows how to do that. But we know that eating veggies and fruits is one way to reach better health. You don't need to be thin (not "on an obesity board") to know that. Now that we are putting into action ideas of better eating for ourselves, the question is: how do parents get their children to do the same? For those without children, how would you do it and why?

If you were speaking for other people when you alluded to the hypocrisy of being obese and presuming to tell parents how to feed their children, for my part, I always ate many veggies and fruit since childhood. I'm a vegetarian, I stopped drinking soda and artificially sweetened juice as a child, I always loved unpopular veggies like brussel sprouts and beets, and I hated white bread (etc). And yet, I have a weight problem. I talk about my problems with obesity in the other thread. My problem was not quality but quantity; quantity of good food and quantity of exercise. How parents can regulate those two aspects of a child's behaviour seems infinitely more difficult, but my mother certainly did try. Now that I have the band to control portions, I don't feel like I'm dieting at all because I don't have to change the kinds of food I eat at all in order to be healthy. I learned from an early age to love the alternative to greasy and sugary foods.

[Leifysmom 0]

I think its a great topic, i didn't post on the last thread, and actually agree with both sides. Its a good discussion to have, especially when i thick we all want to do what's best for our kids now and in the future. How do we do that? I think there is no right answer for that. Our kids have their own unique personalities and tastes. One parent is not going to always agree with the next. Its kind of like the breast feeding debate and any other parenting issue out there. There will always be different approaches. What i appreciate is seeing different tactics that other parents have tried. I personally am blessed witha kid that will eat fruit like its a treat and some veggies. I don't force him to clean his plate, but that's because i am a fullfledged member of the clean plate club LOL and hope i can help him avoid overeating in his future and then hopefully avoid obesity. I do make him try at least one bite of new foods even if he argues then i let him make the choice to eat more of it. But i also offer these foods again in the future, same rule. But one thing i did learn from my pediatrician is not to make food a big issue (he knows about my surgery and my fear that my son will inherit my issues). Parenting is a passionate issue for parents and many want to defend their choices and styles. The thing i hope that people will take away from your post is that we can learn different approches from each other. Its great to have such a large network of virtual friends to bounce ideas and questions off of. Maybe we are the future of fighting obesity in our next generation. Thanks for the opportunity to put some of my thoughts into this and gain knowledge from others. (Sorry for the typos, typing on this tiny phone keyboard UGG, LOL).

[Rainydayz 3]

Thanks for your post. Again, the purpose of this thread, at least my intention in creating it, is to ask everyone what their own individual philosophy to introducing new foods is, how they came to the approach, and why they find it effective (along with whatever other topics come up). These questions are not presumptuous in any sense nor is expressing an individual opinion on what works best for you or what strategies best fit your personal philosophy.

As far as having a lot to learn about eating--if I take your statement literally, as only speaking for yourself when you say "I"--I'd say that many of us have already learned all that we need to know about eating at least much healthier than we were formerly. No one here is suggesting ways to reach maximum health. No human knows how to do that. But we know that eating veggies and fruits is one way to reach better health. You don't need to be thin (not "on an obesity board") to know that. Now that we are putting into action ideas of better eating for ourselves, the question is: how do parents get their children to do the same? For those without children, how would you do it and why?

If you were speaking for other people when you alluded to the hypocrisy of being obese and presuming to tell parents how to feed their children, for my part, I always ate many veggies and fruit since childhood. I'm a vegetarian, I stopped drinking soda and artificially sweetened juice as a child, I always loved unpopular veggies like brussel sprouts and beets, and I hated white bread (etc). And yet, I have a weight problem. I talk about my problems with obesity in the other thread. My problem was not quality but quantity; quantity of good food and quantity of exercise. How parents can regulate those two aspects of a child's behaviour seems infinitely more difficult, but my mother certainly did try. Now that I have the band to control portions, I don't feel like I'm dieting at all because I don't have to change the kinds of food I eat at all in order to be healthy. I learned from an early age to love the alternative to greasy and sugary foods.

Wow. Defensive much? Maybe it's because of the "other" topic you alluded to which I have not read. So sorry if I said something wrong. I was simply stating that "I" myself would never presume to tell anyone how to feed their kids, I was not intimating that you or anyone else WAS. Yes, you were correct in reading my statement literally. I tend to be quite a literal person. I was only speaking for myself as I have not been banded yet and am only just beginning my search for a healthier life. Sorry if I offended. I was simply trying to answer the question with my own opinion and trying not to offend by the caveat I included. Apparently, epic fail.

[Birinak 19]

Wow. Defensive much? Maybe it's because of the "other" topic you alluded to which I have not read. So sorry if I said something wrong. I was simply stating that "I" myself would never presume to tell anyone how to feed their kids, I was not intimating that you or anyone else WAS. Yes, you were correct in reading my statement literally. I tend to be quite a literal person. I was only speaking for myself as I have not been banded yet and am only just beginning my search for a healthier life. Sorry if I offended. I was simply trying to answer the question with my own opinion and trying not to offend by the caveat I included. Apparently, epic fail.

Well, actually, so far of all the people who've posted, you're the only one who seems angry. I thanked you for your post and I gave you as thorough and honest an answer as I could.

I wasn't offended. If anything is offensive, now, it is calling a person "defensive." "Defensiveness" implies an irrational presumption of criticism, especially resulting from a sensitivity about self-perceived flaws. This is the internet and not a face-to-face discussion, so I couldn't tell what your tone was and that is why I gave two answers (explaining why I did so quite clearly): one for if you were literally referring to yourself and one for if you were speaking about how others should act. Very often, when people want to say, without being direct, that people should not behave in a certain way, they use the personal "I," as in "Well, I would never behave that way!" As I mentioned in the last post, I wasn't sure which meaning your statement implied. As I made no definite conclusion, and only wondered which of the two meanings you intended, I was not being defensive.

What you said was that you would never be so presumptuous as to tell other parents how to feed their children, especially since you're on an obesity board. Well, we are also on an obesity board and we're sharing our personal ideas on parenting. According to you, people on an obesity board = having a lot to learn about eating.¹ I hope you can see why a person, without being able to hear your tone or see your facial expressions, would wonder which of the two meanings you intended.

1. Side note: I think obese people don't actually have that much to learn before they can understand whether it is worse to eat an entire pizza or an entire apple. Their limited education on nutrition can't account for being hundreds of pounds overweight. The reason obese people choose the pizza is psychological, not because they don't know it's worse than an apple. So, if I ask how do you get your child to eat an apple for the first time, when what s/he insists on is a pizza, I expect that you already know that much about eating, obese or not, to understand the question and to be able to share your own approach. Now, I hope that I wasn't being too presumptuous.

[Rainydayz 3]

Ok. Nevermind. Moving on. sorry I interrupted your thread.