Dr says my calorie count cant be right Grrrrr

[bayareanan 24]

I had my second fill today. I had lost 4lbs since my last fill which corresponded with my own records.

I mentioned to him that I would have expected to lose more than 4lbs since I was averaging 800 cal and walking the treadmill 3-4 days/week.

He was in my face saying there is no way I could have only been eating 800 calories. I have been told this before when I went through another weight loss program. Like I am not able to accurately keep track of my calories. I include my cheats (wine and chocolate) and even count my diet juices. I did not want to cause an altercation (Flair for the drama here), but I wanted him to understand that my calorie count IS accurate.

I am hoping by next fill I will have a better loss so we can avoid this issue. It is a battle I dont want to fight again. It only brings negativity.

[isaviolinist 11]

Based on your surgery date, I'm assuming your 1st fill was 3ish weeks ago? Based on your sex, weight and age, at the VERY least, not counting exercise, you should be burning 2200-2400 calories a day. So based on that (and an 800 calorie per day diet), you should have an average calorie deficit of 10500 calories per week. That would amount to an average of 3 pounds lost per week (Water weight and other things fluctuate on a daily and weekly basis...so you should look at your loss over a longer period of time, like 4-6 weeks for accuracy...if you've lost 12 pounds more or less in 4 weeks, then you're calorie tracking is correct). Again, thats not counting any exercise you're doing. So if your 1st fill was in fact 3 weeks ago, and you lost 4 pounds in 3 weeks (which is not bad...1.33 pounds a week is great), then either you're not tracking your calories accurately or for some reason you're not burning anywhere near the calories per day that someone your weight, age and sex typically should be. If its the latter, that is probably what is confusing your doctor and perhaps is something you should look into (do you have PCOS or hypothyroid or any other metabolism issue?).

Just out of curiosity, how many calories do you burn on the treadmill, what is your daily level of activity (do you sit around or are you on your feet all day at work?), and how do you track your calories (online? notebook? where do you get your calorie values from? do you weigh food? etc)? Weightloss is simply calories in < calories out. You need to have a deficit of 3500 calories to lose one pound so if you can calculate your weekly calorie deficit, it is cut and dry figuring out how much you should be losing (and again, you should look at your loss over a longer period for accuracy).

[ElfiePoo 109]

Bay,

I absolutely detest know it all people who try to make us out as liars and cheats when we don't lose. I went on an 800 calorie Optifast diet for 30 days (years ago) and didn't lose *anything*. I went on weight watchers, being absolutely anal about weighing and measure...and gained 12 pounds the first month. Over the last year, even on my 'bad' days, I've never gone over 1800 calories which is still at least 1000 calories a day *less* than I was eating pre-band which means I should have been consistently losing *at least* 2 lb per week *IF* the idea that calories in/calories are out is what it is all about. As many here have discovered, it's not all about calories in/calories out.

Personally, I don't lose when I drop my calories as low as 800...and exercise does nothing to increase my weight loss. Sure I feel better and it's good for me, but from a weight loss standpoint...hasn't done anything. After a several month stall, I finally discovered that I have to keep my carbs below 30, my calories around 1200 and over 1000 and my Protein grams at least under 100 but preferably close to 70 in order to start losing again. So much for never having to diet once I got the band.

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[isaviolinist 11]

Bay,

I absolutely detest know it all people who try to make us out as liars and cheats when we don't lose. I went on an 800 calorie Optifast diet for 30 days (years ago) and didn't lose *anything*. I went on weight watchers, being absolutely anal about weighing and measure...and gained 12 pounds the first month. Over the last year, even on my 'bad' days, I've never gone over 1800 calories which is still at least 1000 calories a day *less* than I was eating pre-band which means I should have been consistently losing *at least* 2 lb per week *IF* the idea that calories in/calories are out is what it is all about. As many here have discovered, it's not all about calories in/calories out.

Personally, I don't lose when I drop my calories as low as 800...and exercise does nothing to increase my weight loss. Sure I feel better and it's good for me, but from a weight loss standpoint...hasn't done anything. After a several month stall, I finally discovered that I have to keep my carbs below 30, my calories around 1200 and over 1000 and my Protein grams at least under 100 but preferably close to 70 in order to start losing again. So much for never having to diet once I got the band.

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I'm sorry. I was about to go to sleep when this came up on my phone and I really needed to respond. I'm assuming you weren't eating 1800 calories everyday. So based on a 1400 calorie per day diet (as an average) that leaves you with 600 calories per day deficit (again, based on you age, gender and weight you are probably burning 2000 calories a day without exercise and from your other posts you mentioned that you lost 70 pounds without exercise). That's a 4200 calorie deficit a week which is just slightly over 1 pound lost per week (I'm not sure how you came up with at least 2 pounds a week but if I'm missing some math feel free to correct me). Even if you were consistently eating 1200 calories a day, that's a 5600 weekly calorie deficit which is still 1400 calories short of 2 pounds per week. It doesn't matter how much below your pre band calorie intake you are or whether you *feel* in your heart of hearts that weight loss is not about calories in vs out, science says otherwise. If you are sure that you are consuming less than you are burning, and you're not losing, then something else is the issue. If you have other scientific evidence or credible sources that have disproved the science of energy in vs energy out I'd love to see them.

I'm the first one to gripe about how difficult losing weight is ( with or without WLS) and how frustrating certain metabolic issues can be for those overweight and the difficulties in dealing with our relationship with food but please, let's not kid ourselves about the science of it all just to get some *warm fuzzies*. There are other ways to support each other besides denial.

[ElfiePoo 109]

Even if you were consistently eating 1200 calories a day, that's a 5600 weekly calorie deficit which is still 1400 calories short of 2 pounds per week. It doesn't matter how much below your pre band calorie intake you are or whether you *feel* in your heart of hearts that weight loss is not about calories in vs out, science says otherwise. If you are sure that you are consuming less than you are burning, and you're not losing, then something else is the issue. If you have other scientific evidence or credible sources that have disproved the science of energy in vs energy out I'd love to see them.

I'm the first one to gripe about how difficult losing weight is ( with or without WLS) and how frustrating certain metabolic issues can be for those overweight and the difficulties in dealing with our relationship with food but please, let's not kid ourselves about the science of it all just to get some *warm fuzzies*. There are other ways to support each other besides denial.

As I said...I detest 'know it alls' who feel free to call us liars and cheats because they hold an 'opinion' about how the body burns calories. I was originally referring to the OP's doctor, but if the shoe fits.

It is not as simple as calories in/calories out...and it is not supportive to accuse someone of being a liar and cheat just because their weight loss does not fall in with your preconceived views of how weight loss occurs.

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[isaviolinist 11]

As I said...I detest 'know it alls' who feel free to call us liars and cheats because they hold an 'opinion' about how the body burns calories. I was originally referring to the OP's doctor, but if the shoe fits.

It is not as simple as calories in/calories out...and it is not supportive to accuse someone of being a liar and cheat just because their weight loss does not fall in with your preconceived views of how weight loss occurs.

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I don't know what you're doctor called you, but I didn't call you a liar (maybe just a bad mathematician? ). If your calories were in the range of 1200-1800 and you were losing less than 2 pounds a week, that would be right on target according to the calories in vs out theory (regardless of what you thought you should be/wished you were losing per week).

It seems that YOU feel you know it all (even more than doctors and researchers who have decades upon decades of research and experience behind them). And I'm always open to be further Enlightened on a subject (as I'm sure many others here would be too...because I think the majority of people think the calories in vs out theory seems pretty reasonable). So I guess I'll just hang tight and wait on that list of credible sources/research (your *feelings* on the issue don't count as a source ).

[ElfiePoo 109]

It seems that YOU feel you know it all (even more than doctors and researchers who have decades upon decades of research and experience behind them). And I'm always open to be further Enlightened on a subject (as I'm sure many others here would be too...because I think the majority of people think the calories in vs out theory seems pretty reasonable). So I guess I'll just hang tight and wait on that list of credible sources/research (your *feelings* on the issue don't count as a source ).

I'm not using my 'feelings'. I'm using the *facts*.

I know...for a fact...exactly what I put in my mouth, right down to a breath mint, every day because I record every single thing I put in my mouth through fitday.com.

I know...for a fact...that according to the 'experts' I was eating 1100 calories per day less than the calories supposedly needed to maintain that current weight...and not losing.

I know ...for a fact...that I had also increased my exercise to an hour of brisk walking per day plus aerobics twice a week so my calorie expenditure was greater...and still not losing.

There is far more to losing weight than calories in/calories out...and even the 'experts' can't agree on it. To simplify it to calories in/calories out is doing a disservice to everyone.

To the OP, in case this got lost in all this nonsense (which I'm just not going to continue with)...change up some of what you're doing. It could be that 800 calories is too low for you. I don't lose on 800 calories. Actually, I didn't lose on 1200 calories until I also started watching my Protein grams (excess Proteins can cause a glucogenic effect) as well.

Depending on where your carbs are at, you might try lowering them to below 30...or at least below 60. I've found that carbs are not carbs for me. If I'm not trying to lose weight, I can go as high as 60gm of carb per day but if those carbs are in the form of bread, Pasta, etc. (versus vegies), I can actually gain.

Our bodies are so unique. What works for one person will not work for another. For decades the nutrition and fitness industry have been trying to convince us that there's one perfect diet for everyone (low cal, low fat)...and that's just a lie.

Hopefully you'll find what your body needs...just don't give up and don't let the naysayers depress you. Personally, I'd also be having a few words with my doctor about *his* attitude.

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[LanceBijeaux 6]

Sounds like you are not getting enough calories my doc says I need 1300-1500 calories a day for weight lost it seems like a lot of food to eat for the band user but it can be done .....Banded Aug 27 APS band with 2cc's I never had a fill yet in 3 visits, so look into finding the right calorie count for your body style which is weight height and age.

[Melissannde 41]

I had my second fill today. I had lost 4lbs since my last fill which corresponded with my own records.

I mentioned to him that I would have expected to lose more than 4lbs since I was averaging 800 cal and walking the treadmill 3-4 days/week.

He was in my face saying there is no way I could have only been eating 800 calories. I have been told this before when I went through another weight loss program. Like I am not able to accurately keep track of my calories. I include my cheats (wine and chocolate) and even count my diet juices. I did not want to cause an altercation (Flair for the drama here), but I wanted him to understand that my calorie count IS accurate.

I am hoping by next fill I will have a better loss so we can avoid this issue. It is a battle I dont want to fight again. It only brings negativity.

Sorry you're having issues with your doctor.

Do you keep a record of your intake online somewhere? I use www.livestrong.com/thedailyplate and it allows me to print out what I'm eating in an excel chart. I print out about a week or 10 days of what I've eaten to take in so that my nurses/doctor can see my choices. Maybe if you did something like that, it would enable ya'll to communicate better.

Congrats on the treadmill so often. Just a note, if you're using the treadmills calculation of calorie burn, those are known to be highly inaccurate. Once I got a good HR monitor, I found that the treadmills calculation was way off.. by about 1/2.

Hope things get better for you.

[grizzlyrider 0]

800 doesn't sound like enough, when I was first banded I was eating 900 and that only worked for a little while and I had to increase it. I also have to avoid sugar like the plague! And hey, let's all try to be a little more supportive when people come here for help. I've notice a lot of negativity on the whole site lately and that doesn't help anyone.

[elizabeth_ahmad 1]

It is not as simple as calories in vs calories expended. Our bodies react very differently to different calorie sources especially if you have a metabolic issue (PCOS, metabolic syndrome, syndrome X, insulin resistance, thyroid issues, Cushings Syndrome, etc.) There are plenty of documented cases of women with PCOS being vegetarian, on a diet, exercising and still gaining weight. I do believe most people who are obese have diagnosed or undiagnosed metabolic issues.

I have PCOS and know for a fact that if I eat normal portions I gain weight no matter what. I have been eating on a salad plate for years and still was weighing 265 lbs when all of this started. In order to loose weight, I have to eat portions that fit on a dessert plate about what my 3 year old would eat. I cannot eat that portion without being ravenous. I got the lap-band to help curb hunger.

I do get tired of doctors and others saying that there is no way a person cannot be loosing weight or even gaining on a limited diet. It happens all the time.

If you are not loosing weight on a limited diet, perhaps you should see an endocrinologist and get a workup done to see if there are metabolic issues or other medical issues. Of course, see your PCP or pharmacist to find out if any medications you may be on is causing weight gain or slow metabolism.

[samomom 19]

Just so you know, I took a class years ago with a woman who was a chef and nutritionist and she said that the calorie info on packaged foods are allowed to be off by up to 20% according to the FDA rules. So that 280 calorie Lean Cusine can actually be 336 calories, etc. Sounds like maybe you actually need to increase your calories a bit. Our bodies aren't perfect machines. It sounds odd to need to eat more to lose weight, but I know for me it works.

And as someone else mentioned, the treadmill calorie counters are always off. Unless you are hooked up to monitors, no machine can accurately tell how many calories each individual has burned. Someone who is very overweight with a slow metabolism won't burn the same calories in 20 minutes as a fit lean person, but the treadmill has no way of knowing that.

[sparkplug 106]

Bay,

I absolutely detest know it all people who try to make us out as liars and cheats when we don't lose. I went on an 800 calorie Optifast diet for 30 days (years ago) and didn't lose *anything*. I went on weight watchers, being absolutely anal about weighing and measure...and gained 12 pounds the first month. Over the last year, even on my 'bad' days, I've never gone over 1800 calories which is still at least 1000 calories a day *less* than I was eating pre-band which means I should have been consistently losing *at least* 2 lb per week *IF* the idea that calories in/calories are out is what it is all about. As many here have discovered, it's not all about calories in/calories out.

Personally, I don't lose when I drop my calories as low as 800...and exercise does nothing to increase my weight loss. Sure I feel better and it's good for me, but from a weight loss standpoint...hasn't done anything. After a several month stall, I finally discovered that I have to keep my carbs below 30, my calories around 1200 and over 1000 and my Protein grams at least under 100 but preferably close to 70 in order to start losing again. So much for never having to diet once I got the band.

.

OMG Elfie, you are so right, I tried weight watchers once and actually gained. Their regime includes lots of fresh fruits and vegetables which are high in carbs and my body does not handle them well, I actually gained 15 pds the first month on weight watchers. I have to agree with you, I am baffled by this calories in and calories out thing. I believe I am to goal with losing 90 pds and at a size 8-10 but I try occasionally to cut back to see if I can get another 5 pds off and it does not budge. People just don't understand and I too, am tired of being called a liar and cheat because our weight losses do not fall into the so-called pattern of some other people's format. You are so right, making this point, Kudos to you sister for all of us that have had this battle our whole life and we DO NOT ALL Fit into the same mold.

[BetsyB 9]

Bodies are weird, and no one's is just like anyone else's.

I have had many, many doctors tell me my calorie counts just couldn't be right. Or roll their eyes when I told them how much I exercised.

I've endured being told never, ever to go under 1200 calories/day (when in fact there is no peer-reviewed scientific research to back the theory of "starvation mode" in people who have excess body weight)---and when I've gained on that amount, been told I must have cheated. In fact, my body simply needs far fewer calories. It doesn't give up its fat stores readily. It gains weight very easily.

It wasn't until I met my surgeon that I felt believed. And I think that's largely because I really, really lucked out with surgeons--because most would have told me the same thing I'd always heard. From doctors, Weight Watchers leaders, and so on.

I eat 800-900 calories a day, and exercise every single day, at least once (and usually twice). I journal faithfully, and my calorie deficits are in a range that supports greater loss than I actually see. This intake/output is verified by BodyBugg.

It would be nice if it really were always energy in-energy out. But other factors can influence weight. Another thing to keep in mind is that body weight is only a snapshot---you were in the office for a short time, and will be in the office again soon, and the scale may give an entirely different picture. It simply does not give the whole picture.

Are you paying close attention to the sources of your calories? For me, this is really important. I need to aim for 80-100 g protein/day, <50 g carbs (net), and 20%-30% of calories from heart-healthy fats/day. I also only eat carbs that come from nonstarchy veggie, fruit, and legume sources. It makes a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference for me. (I don't get the luxury of cheats like chocolate and wine --- even if my caloric intake is identical on the weeks that I have them and the weeks that I don't, I simply don't lose as well when I do. Counting the calories isn't enough; I have to omit them. Sucks, but it is what it is.)

But mostly, keeping things in perspective is what works for me. A four pound loss is really significant. If you continue to lose at that rate, it will add up really quickly.

I know how frustrating it is. And it's infuriating to be treated like a "cheater" when you really DO know what you're doing, and how your body responds. Just stick with it. Since you're journaling on fitday, you can keep a good eye on what might need tweaking. (Don't overlook the micronutrients. They can play in, too.)

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I had my second fill today. I had lost 4lbs since my last fill which corresponded with my own records.

I mentioned to him that I would have expected to lose more than 4lbs since I was averaging 800 cal and walking the treadmill 3-4 days/week.

He was in my face saying there is no way I could have only been eating 800 calories. I have been told this before when I went through another weight loss program. Like I am not able to accurately keep track of my calories. I include my cheats (wine and chocolate) and even count my diet juices. I did not want to cause an altercation (Flair for the drama here), but I wanted him to understand that my calorie count IS accurate.

I am hoping by next fill I will have a better loss so we can avoid this issue. It is a battle I dont want to fight again. It only brings negativity.

Sounds like you go to my FORMER surgeon who was an idiot. You should have a good relationship with your doctor and he shouldn't be in your face about anything. While others have posted about your calories in vs calories out, I want to focus on your relationship with your doctor.

You should not have an adversarial relationship with him and should not have to even consider an altercation happening. He should be there to help you. It is his job to get the band filled to the point that you are at your sweet spot and small amounts of healthy foods satisfy you for several hours.

If I were you I would look for a new doctor. If you aren't willing to do that, then ask to meet with the nutritionist and discuss this with him/her. These people should be supportive. And if you're having trouble losing, it is their job to figure out why and offer constructive help.

I would not put up with a surgeon like this and indeed I didn't - which is why I switched doctors 7 months after my surgery, which was over 2 years ago. Best move I ever made - and I discovered how a supportive doctor is supposed to deal with patients.

You will now probably dread going to your appointments and that is never good. I hope you are able to find a satisfactory solution to this problem. Good luck.